First I want to state that while I have been member of this very informative forum for some time I am not a frequent visitor and therefore am still not up to par on the latest developments as well as not familiar with many of the acronymns and abbreviations used by many of the members here so pardon my ignorance. In my search for a full synthetic for my daughter's new 2013 Rav4, I read that while 0w20 is the recommendation, 5w20 can also be used. Since I plan on going to 10k OCI would M1 EP be a better option than M1 AFE?
M1 AFE 0w20 vs M1 EP 5w20 for extended OCI?
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M1 just came out with a new 0W-20 EP so you could use that. Personally I think any of the M1 0W-20's or 5W-20's would be fine for 10k runs in South Carolina. That's assuming it's not all stop & go city driving. If you were in Canada, 0W-20 would be the way to go.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_Extended_Performance.aspx
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_Extended_Performance.aspx
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How much driving does she do? AFE is more than capable of 10k OCI.
Originally Posted By: Brent_G
How much driving does she do? AFE is more than capable of 10k OCI.
Guessing 12k annual.
How much driving does she do? AFE is more than capable of 10k OCI.
Guessing 12k annual.
Originally Posted By: Back40
Originally Posted By: Brent_G
How much driving does she do? AFE is more than capable of 10k OCI.
Guessing 12k annual.
Use M1 0w20 Extended performance at yearly OCI and call it a day? If she is driving around 12k as you say.
being your daughter's car, even if there are any lapse in maintenance should give you that window of comfort/peace of mind.
Originally Posted By: Brent_G
How much driving does she do? AFE is more than capable of 10k OCI.
Guessing 12k annual.
Use M1 0w20 Extended performance at yearly OCI and call it a day? If she is driving around 12k as you say.
being your daughter's car, even if there are any lapse in maintenance should give you that window of comfort/peace of mind.
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I ran AFE 0W-20 for 15K in my FX4 and it still had some life in it. I do not think you would have issues using "regular" AFE for 12K. However, the EP version of AFE is currently at Wal-Mart for $25.17 a jug versus regular at $24.48. For $0.69 go for the EP version and sleep easy with a 1 year OCI.
Originally Posted By: Back40
First I want to state that while I have been member of this very informative forum for some time I am not a frequent visitor and therefore am still not up to par on the latest developments as well as not familiar with many of the acronymns and abbreviations used by many of the members here so pardon my ignorance. In my search for a full synthetic for my daughter's new 2013 Rav4, I read that while 0w20 is the recommendation, 5w20 can also be used. Since I plan on going to 10k OCI would M1 EP be a better option than M1 AFE?
Why do you want to run generic Mobil 1 in a new Toyota? Get some dealer oil-change coupon and have the Toyota dealer fill it with the TGMO 0W-20 SN -- the OEM factory-fill oil. If you want to do DIY, negotiate the price with the dealer and get a case of 12 for about $60 - 70. TGMO 0W-20 SN is custom made for Toyotas by ExxonMobil in case you didn't know.
First I want to state that while I have been member of this very informative forum for some time I am not a frequent visitor and therefore am still not up to par on the latest developments as well as not familiar with many of the acronymns and abbreviations used by many of the members here so pardon my ignorance. In my search for a full synthetic for my daughter's new 2013 Rav4, I read that while 0w20 is the recommendation, 5w20 can also be used. Since I plan on going to 10k OCI would M1 EP be a better option than M1 AFE?
Why do you want to run generic Mobil 1 in a new Toyota? Get some dealer oil-change coupon and have the Toyota dealer fill it with the TGMO 0W-20 SN -- the OEM factory-fill oil. If you want to do DIY, negotiate the price with the dealer and get a case of 12 for about $60 - 70. TGMO 0W-20 SN is custom made for Toyotas by ExxonMobil in case you didn't know.
Not everyone is able to successfully negotiate TGMO for $60-70 a case. Besides, nothing wrong with the AFE. Engine will still be running like a champ by the time the Rav is in the scrap yard because of rust.
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Back40 said:
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Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Why do you want to run generic Mobil 1 in a new Toyota?
A better question would be--why would you not use it? Any flavor of M1 or any other quality synthetic would have the engine far outlast the chassis in which it is installed. You seem to have an issue with M1; I get that, but your inferred suggestion that TGMO is far and away better than M1 is laughable. Any comparable synthetic will perform just as well as TGMO in a Toyota; there is nothing so special about a Toyota engine that it only requires that oil to see a long life.
OP - choose whatever approved oil you wish to run and forget about the negotiations at the dealer--I would hazard to guess you are sick of "negotiating" after buying a new car. There are plenty of other oils that meet the requirements of your car.
Why do you want to run generic Mobil 1 in a new Toyota?
A better question would be--why would you not use it? Any flavor of M1 or any other quality synthetic would have the engine far outlast the chassis in which it is installed. You seem to have an issue with M1; I get that, but your inferred suggestion that TGMO is far and away better than M1 is laughable. Any comparable synthetic will perform just as well as TGMO in a Toyota; there is nothing so special about a Toyota engine that it only requires that oil to see a long life.
OP - choose whatever approved oil you wish to run and forget about the negotiations at the dealer--I would hazard to guess you are sick of "negotiating" after buying a new car. There are plenty of other oils that meet the requirements of your car.
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
You seem to have an issue with M1; I get that
I have no issue with M1 -- other than some reservations and appreciations like with any other oil. However, I do believe that TGMO 0W-20 SN is a better oil than M1 AFE or EP 0W-20 SN.
In fact, I might try M1 0W-40 SN in the next OCI for purposes of experimentation with a thick oil.
Also note that I've criticized some M1 SN formulations for having too little Ca and too much Mg. Too little Ca and too much Mg and extended OCI is an oxymoron, as too little Ca means TAN increases too fast and too much Mg won't help with increasing TAN. I wouldn't use such oils for very extended OCIs. When TAN exceeds TBN, your engine isn't sufficiently protected against wear and it gets worse with the difference of TAN from TBN growing more positive.
You seem to have an issue with M1; I get that
I have no issue with M1 -- other than some reservations and appreciations like with any other oil. However, I do believe that TGMO 0W-20 SN is a better oil than M1 AFE or EP 0W-20 SN.
In fact, I might try M1 0W-40 SN in the next OCI for purposes of experimentation with a thick oil.
Also note that I've criticized some M1 SN formulations for having too little Ca and too much Mg. Too little Ca and too much Mg and extended OCI is an oxymoron, as too little Ca means TAN increases too fast and too much Mg won't help with increasing TAN. I wouldn't use such oils for very extended OCIs. When TAN exceeds TBN, your engine isn't sufficiently protected against wear and it gets worse with the difference of TAN from TBN growing more positive.
2010_FX4,
I notice you're referring to the new M1 0W-20EP as the "EP version of AFE".
I think this is incorrect. The AFE versions use lower amounts of phosphorus and zinc (650/750ppm vs. 800/900ppm for the other SN oils), per the Mobil 1 comparison chart.
The lower additive levels reduce the friction improving the fuel economy, albeit slightly. Better base stocks, with likely a higher PAO content, allow longer drain intervals (due to improved oxidative control), in spite of the lower level of antiwear agents.
In the EP versions, the base stocks are most likely very similar to the AFE versions, but the zinc/phosphorus levels are increased to the standard M1 levels. The result is better wear control at more extreme oil change intervals.
I think the new M1 0W-20EP formulation is tweaked and optimized compared to M1 0W-20 AFE or M1 5W-20EP.
XOM clearly recognized this viscosity is overtaking 5W-30 as the one to put all the research & development into.
Since you probably could have easily gone 20k+ on the 0W-20 AFE, I have no doubt this oil could be worth 3-5k extra miles. I, for one, can't wait for you to begin your rigorous testing of this oil in your Ford. ;-)
Take care,
Gary
I notice you're referring to the new M1 0W-20EP as the "EP version of AFE".
I think this is incorrect. The AFE versions use lower amounts of phosphorus and zinc (650/750ppm vs. 800/900ppm for the other SN oils), per the Mobil 1 comparison chart.
The lower additive levels reduce the friction improving the fuel economy, albeit slightly. Better base stocks, with likely a higher PAO content, allow longer drain intervals (due to improved oxidative control), in spite of the lower level of antiwear agents.
In the EP versions, the base stocks are most likely very similar to the AFE versions, but the zinc/phosphorus levels are increased to the standard M1 levels. The result is better wear control at more extreme oil change intervals.
I think the new M1 0W-20EP formulation is tweaked and optimized compared to M1 0W-20 AFE or M1 5W-20EP.
XOM clearly recognized this viscosity is overtaking 5W-30 as the one to put all the research & development into.
Since you probably could have easily gone 20k+ on the 0W-20 AFE, I have no doubt this oil could be worth 3-5k extra miles. I, for one, can't wait for you to begin your rigorous testing of this oil in your Ford. ;-)
Take care,
Gary
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Originally Posted By: Tucson Five-O
2010_FX4, I notice you're referring to the new M1 0W-20EP as the "EP version of AFE". T think this is incorrect.
I think you are correct--a slip of the keyboard
2010_FX4, I notice you're referring to the new M1 0W-20EP as the "EP version of AFE". T think this is incorrect.
I think you are correct--a slip of the keyboard
Either Mobil 1 oil is fine...
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Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Also note that I've criticized some M1 SN formulations for having too little Ca and too much Mg. Too little Ca and too much Mg and extended OCI is an oxymoron, as too little Ca means TAN increases too fast and too much Mg won't help with increasing TAN. I wouldn't use such oils for very extended OCIs. When TAN exceeds TBN, your engine isn't sufficiently protected against wear and it gets worse with the difference of TAN from TBN growing more positive.
Your thoughts do not match reality however and you need to define "very extended OCIs". I ran it for 15K and it easily was the best oil I have used to date producing a stellar UOA . I have also had runs of varying oils where the TAN exceeded TBN and the wear metals in the oil did not drastically increase. I will totally agree there is a point when it will, but that limit is far higher than you would believe and it is not the instant when TAN crosses TBN.
Also note that I've criticized some M1 SN formulations for having too little Ca and too much Mg. Too little Ca and too much Mg and extended OCI is an oxymoron, as too little Ca means TAN increases too fast and too much Mg won't help with increasing TAN. I wouldn't use such oils for very extended OCIs. When TAN exceeds TBN, your engine isn't sufficiently protected against wear and it gets worse with the difference of TAN from TBN growing more positive.
Your thoughts do not match reality however and you need to define "very extended OCIs". I ran it for 15K and it easily was the best oil I have used to date producing a stellar UOA . I have also had runs of varying oils where the TAN exceeded TBN and the wear metals in the oil did not drastically increase. I will totally agree there is a point when it will, but that limit is far higher than you would believe and it is not the instant when TAN crosses TBN.
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