M1 5w30 / 2006 Legacy GT / 7165mi
- Thread starter Schwinn
- Start date
- Status
I'd stay with the factory air filter. They have proven over and over to offer great filtration. The Legacy GT air filter housing sucks. Fit is critical. It's easy to get a poor seal even with the factory filter if you are not careful.
Ed
Ed
Originally Posted By: Schwinn
bulwnkl: As I recall, most Al blocks have sleeves on them, which is where the pistons actually ride... this is why you won't see Al in a wear situation (as you can imagine, Al doesn't wear very well).
That's not the case in your Subie, but in any event I'm not talking about the block. I'm talking about the pistons themselves. They're aluminum alloy in that Subaru. If you have too much dirt coming in through the intake, or suspended in the oil itself, you'll see high Al in the analysis. The fact that you're not seeing that here is one of several suggestors of a fuel problem.
bulwnkl: As I recall, most Al blocks have sleeves on them, which is where the pistons actually ride... this is why you won't see Al in a wear situation (as you can imagine, Al doesn't wear very well).
That's not the case in your Subie, but in any event I'm not talking about the block. I'm talking about the pistons themselves. They're aluminum alloy in that Subaru. If you have too much dirt coming in through the intake, or suspended in the oil itself, you'll see high Al in the analysis. The fact that you're not seeing that here is one of several suggestors of a fuel problem.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,793
I'm with bulwnkl here ..sorta. I don't see the throttle body sand blasting (Al) ..nor the chrome from the valves. I'd look for a PCV leak that's bypassing the throttle body/air filter and going directly into the crankcase somehow.
edhackett - Agreed. I'll try the OEM filter this time around, and see if that helps. I also plan to photograph the filters (new and old) for reference... and inspect the old one carefully.
As for the fuel issue I keep reading about - I still don't see it. Anyone care to provide the reason behind this theory? (Note that the fuel% in the analysis showed no issues... so where is this fuel concern coming from?)
Lastly, regarding the Al, I see the point... and agree that we should see more of that if it's sand in the intake. Heck, with the turbo and intercooler involved in the intake, there are plenty of places to "sandblast" the Al into the engine... so I agree, and am beginning to wonder where else the Si could be coming from.
As for the fuel issue I keep reading about - I still don't see it. Anyone care to provide the reason behind this theory? (Note that the fuel% in the analysis showed no issues... so where is this fuel concern coming from?)
Lastly, regarding the Al, I see the point... and agree that we should see more of that if it's sand in the intake. Heck, with the turbo and intercooler involved in the intake, there are plenty of places to "sandblast" the Al into the engine... so I agree, and am beginning to wonder where else the Si could be coming from.
@buster: I have no problem using Dyson instead... but is there a reason I should spend the extra money for it? You (and bulwnkl) are telling me that there is a fuel issue, yet neither of you can tell me why you think this...
Anyway, I changed the air filter with an OEM unit. While I was there, I ran into a few tidbits of info at the desk:
1) This dealer seems to use Valvoline SYNPower in their oil changes (someone had told me that they thought they used Castrol at Subaru...)
2) There are apparently numerous part numbers for air filters on the LGT, so they used the VIN to pull up the "right" one for this car... seems rather odd. I didn't go into much more detail on the differences, as it was closing time for them.
I didn't find any obvious air intake issues anywhere on the motor. I don't feel any loss of boost pressure, which would be the first sign of an intake leak. There are no obvious vac line issues that I could see either.
I was wrong about the air filter brand - this one was an STP from Autozone: SA9997 (as stamped on the filter itself). It doesn't look too different from the OEM, other than the filter medium color.
Anyway, here are 2 pics for the air filters on the car (left one is old, obviously). Yes the left one is dirty, but there were no visible tears, and you could still see through the filter medium with a light-bulb, for what it's worth, so it wasn't totally packed solid in that sense. The "output" side looks pretty clean, as you can see:
With this and the lack of Aluminum in the sample, I'm beginning to think the air-filter theory may not be the issue behind the high Si...
Anyway, I changed the air filter with an OEM unit. While I was there, I ran into a few tidbits of info at the desk:
1) This dealer seems to use Valvoline SYNPower in their oil changes (someone had told me that they thought they used Castrol at Subaru...)
2) There are apparently numerous part numbers for air filters on the LGT, so they used the VIN to pull up the "right" one for this car... seems rather odd. I didn't go into much more detail on the differences, as it was closing time for them.
I didn't find any obvious air intake issues anywhere on the motor. I don't feel any loss of boost pressure, which would be the first sign of an intake leak. There are no obvious vac line issues that I could see either.
I was wrong about the air filter brand - this one was an STP from Autozone: SA9997 (as stamped on the filter itself). It doesn't look too different from the OEM, other than the filter medium color.
Anyway, here are 2 pics for the air filters on the car (left one is old, obviously). Yes the left one is dirty, but there were no visible tears, and you could still see through the filter medium with a light-bulb, for what it's worth, so it wasn't totally packed solid in that sense. The "output" side looks pretty clean, as you can see:
With this and the lack of Aluminum in the sample, I'm beginning to think the air-filter theory may not be the issue behind the high Si...
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Schwinn
As for the fuel issue I keep reading about - I still don't see it. Anyone care to provide the reason behind this theory? (Note that the fuel% in the analysis showed no issues... so where is this fuel concern coming from?)
Maybe they're saying fuel because turbo Subaru's run rich. Add a stage 2 to the factor and you might be seeing more fuel than a stock Subie.
Even though Blackstone is not as accurate as Dyson for showing fuel, I would think that you would see some fuel and a lower flashpoint if fuel was a problem.
What Stage 2 do you have? Cobb? OTS or pro-tune?
-Dennis
As for the fuel issue I keep reading about - I still don't see it. Anyone care to provide the reason behind this theory? (Note that the fuel% in the analysis showed no issues... so where is this fuel concern coming from?)
Maybe they're saying fuel because turbo Subaru's run rich. Add a stage 2 to the factor and you might be seeing more fuel than a stock Subie.
Even though Blackstone is not as accurate as Dyson for showing fuel, I would think that you would see some fuel and a lower flashpoint if fuel was a problem.
What Stage 2 do you have? Cobb? OTS or pro-tune?
-Dennis
Originally Posted By: Schwinn
............With this and the lack of Aluminum in the sample, I'm beginning to think the air-filter theory may not be the issue behind the high Si...
Silicon can also come from bearing alloys and piston alloys, and not just from ingested air.
............With this and the lack of Aluminum in the sample, I'm beginning to think the air-filter theory may not be the issue behind the high Si...
Silicon can also come from bearing alloys and piston alloys, and not just from ingested air.
I did forget to note that this oil sample was stored in a glass pasta-sauce jar before it was sent it. I cleaned the jar, but maybe it still had "something" left on it that the oil picked up? Though it wouldn't explain the copper and lead in the sample (at least I'd hope my pasta sauce doesn't have lead in it!)
FZ1 - drive slow? Never. Shorter OCIs might make sense if the oil is shearing or failing in some other way, but that's not happening either (from what I can see).
Besides, I'm not racing John Force, but that C4 Vette and the F150 Lightning sure were surprised at the track last time
Bluesubie - Stage 2 is via Cobb AccessPort V1, eTune from TDC Tuning, and a Crucial UP/DP set.
SubLGT - agreed... though you'd expect those to show higher values of other metals as well, which we aren't seeing? (Granted, Iron, Copper, and Lead are both above "usual" levels... though this is a long OCI, too.
FZ1 - drive slow? Never. Shorter OCIs might make sense if the oil is shearing or failing in some other way, but that's not happening either (from what I can see).
Besides, I'm not racing John Force, but that C4 Vette and the F150 Lightning sure were surprised at the track last time
Bluesubie - Stage 2 is via Cobb AccessPort V1, eTune from TDC Tuning, and a Crucial UP/DP set.
SubLGT - agreed... though you'd expect those to show higher values of other metals as well, which we aren't seeing? (Granted, Iron, Copper, and Lead are both above "usual" levels... though this is a long OCI, too.
Schwinn, Blackstone simply uses flashpoint to equate to a fuel concentration.
The thing with fuel is, it'll 'burn off' (evaporate out of the oil) so long as the oil is at full operating temp. Because of this, it's completely possible to have low fuel dilution numbers on a UOA.
Fuel attacks the oil itself, causing a reduction in its ability to do its job properly. The fuel can and can/will also attack some of the materials in the engine. Neither of those forms of damage is repaired after the fuel is removed from the oil. So, fuel dilution can be a problem even when there isn't a whole bunch of fuel in the oil at analysis time.
The evidence of this (the damage/attack) shows in things like wear metals, oxidation and nitration, and other things. Not all things are impacted equally, of course. Now, I don't claim to be able to see these things nearly as well nor as quickly as Dyson can, but I'm not blind to them. Being able to tell you this kind of thing is one reason to get a Dyson analysis, even if only once/year.
The thing with fuel is, it'll 'burn off' (evaporate out of the oil) so long as the oil is at full operating temp. Because of this, it's completely possible to have low fuel dilution numbers on a UOA.
Fuel attacks the oil itself, causing a reduction in its ability to do its job properly. The fuel can and can/will also attack some of the materials in the engine. Neither of those forms of damage is repaired after the fuel is removed from the oil. So, fuel dilution can be a problem even when there isn't a whole bunch of fuel in the oil at analysis time.
The evidence of this (the damage/attack) shows in things like wear metals, oxidation and nitration, and other things. Not all things are impacted equally, of course. Now, I don't claim to be able to see these things nearly as well nor as quickly as Dyson can, but I'm not blind to them. Being able to tell you this kind of thing is one reason to get a Dyson analysis, even if only once/year.
Not sure how the filter housing on the turbo is. But the NA engine air filter is a biatch to get back in place. Its difficult to engage the tabs at the end of the filter towards the engine. It happened to me. It was not engaged properly.
Many (most?) who post here are oil amateurs (including myself) and are here to learn. I think curiosity leads to learning and then sharing that knowledge. But lets keep it real, because it really makes wonder when someone who asked this:
Originally Posted By: bulwnkl
I was perusing spec sheets from RedLine, Mobil, Shell, and Amsoil last night and I noticed something that confused me. It looked to me like in almost or perhaps all cases the 40C kinematic viscosity of the 5W-40 oils was higher than that of the 10w30 oils. Why in the world is that?
Almost four years ago, but now appears to be an oil authority by saying things like this:
Originally Posted By: bulwnkl
Decently ignorant? I have visited with them at some length, and I find them to be marketing masters, but not necessarily chemistry masters.
Originally Posted By: bulwnkl
It's nothing to do with SM.
If you want to be GF-4 certified (starburst on the front of the bottle), one of the many things you must adhere to are phosphorus level limits. This has the secondary effect of limiting the amount of ZDDP in the oil because that compound contains phosphorus. There are other anti-wear additives available, but ZDDP is about the cheapest and it is very effective. It's much harder for companies to keep their price point, and also their margin, while switching away from ZDDP.
Without revealing the source, it makes me question the qualifications of said person. Maybe he has completed a degree in tribology or lubrication engineering since then, and is too modest to tell us? Whatever the case may be, the USDA seems to have a more knowledgeable employee now vs. then. I suspect BITOG played a roll in this remarkable transformation, but the more I read posts like this:
Originally Posted By: bulwnkl
Schwinn, Blackstone simply uses flashpoint to equate to a fuel concentration.
The thing with fuel is, it'll 'burn off' (evaporate out of the oil) so long as the oil is at full operating temp. Because of this, it's completely possible to have low fuel dilution numbers on a UOA.
Fuel attacks the oil itself, causing a reduction in its ability to do its job properly. The fuel can and can/will also attack some of the materials in the engine. Neither of those forms of damage is repaired after the fuel is removed from the oil. So, fuel dilution can be a problem even when there isn't a whole bunch of fuel in the oil at analysis time.
The evidence of this (the damage/attack) shows in things like wear metals, oxidation and nitration, and other things. Not all things are impacted equally, of course. Now, I don't claim to be able to see these things nearly as well nor as quickly as Dyson can, but I'm not blind to them. Being able to tell you this kind of thing is one reason to get a Dyson analysis, even if only once/year.
The more it seems that he is just digesting Dyson Analysis results and regurgitating them as his own. Is it just me?
Originally Posted By: jmsbntz
Many (most?) who post here are oil amateurs (including myself) and are here to learn.
Is it working for you? It did for me here for a while, but pickins are awfully slim more recently. Then I went elsewhere, and am very pleased with the progression.
Good luck to you in your quest for ...knowledge?
Many (most?) who post here are oil amateurs (including myself) and are here to learn.
Is it working for you? It did for me here for a while, but pickins are awfully slim more recently. Then I went elsewhere, and am very pleased with the progression.
Good luck to you in your quest for ...knowledge?
- Status
Similar threads
