Just an addendum to my previous post, this site is not about making everyone feel all warm and fuzzy no matter what their agenda is about oil -- it is about taking the aggregate experiences of everyone and learning from them. It's not about validating everyone's lifestyle and choices, it's about getting to the basic truth about motor oil and cutting though the maze of oil advertising "psycho-babble" and gleaning those "nuggets" of lubricating wisdom.
M1 4T to Rotella T6 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter jerzey
- Start date
- Status
There are basically two camps here.
I think of it in term of "wrenches" and "rags". There's the hands on crowd that do their own work, have mechanical experience, usually owned and operated motorcycles for extended periods of time and generally know a few things about bikes and mechanics.
On the other side, there are the waxer/polishers who never get their hands dirty, know very little about their ride but tend to provide recommendations for the most expensive products and shortest OCIs despite their lack of qualifications.
Inevitably there will be clashes between the two. Hopefully, those seeking guidance will have the good judgment to see the value of sensible maintenance and make choices that will benefit them rather than just filling the coffers of boutique oil companies.
I think of it in term of "wrenches" and "rags". There's the hands on crowd that do their own work, have mechanical experience, usually owned and operated motorcycles for extended periods of time and generally know a few things about bikes and mechanics.
On the other side, there are the waxer/polishers who never get their hands dirty, know very little about their ride but tend to provide recommendations for the most expensive products and shortest OCIs despite their lack of qualifications.
Inevitably there will be clashes between the two. Hopefully, those seeking guidance will have the good judgment to see the value of sensible maintenance and make choices that will benefit them rather than just filling the coffers of boutique oil companies.
Well, I can't imagine on a Asian-designed, shaft-drive bike which means the engine basically has a right-angle bevel-gear drive assembly (think rear differential on a car) plus the transmission gears all sharing the same oil as the engine which has plain crank bearings, flat tappet valve shim buckets, long cam timing chains, slipper pistons, dual counter-balancers, Hi-Vo jack chains NOT being magnitudes harder on their oil than other domestic m/c engines and yet live extremely long lives (100,000+ miles) using conventional 10w-40 oil changed at 7500 mile OCIs and filter changed every other OCI?
Knowing this information, and knowing the mechanical make-up of an HD TC engine, why is anyone (in their right mind) recommending RL or M1 and 2000 miles OCIs on these bikes?
Answer: ?????? IDK
I have repeatedly pointed this out and repeatedly have been shouted down as a Harley "hater" and some kind of malcontent. Yes, I know that everyone is "free" to use any kind of oil they want, but it doesn't mean it is wise, prudent, or economically/ecologically viable. And we should be able to offer a dissenting viewpoint in a reasonable and logical manner and not be "demonized."
Knowing this information, and knowing the mechanical make-up of an HD TC engine, why is anyone (in their right mind) recommending RL or M1 and 2000 miles OCIs on these bikes?
Answer: ?????? IDK
I have repeatedly pointed this out and repeatedly have been shouted down as a Harley "hater" and some kind of malcontent. Yes, I know that everyone is "free" to use any kind of oil they want, but it doesn't mean it is wise, prudent, or economically/ecologically viable. And we should be able to offer a dissenting viewpoint in a reasonable and logical manner and not be "demonized."
Last edited:
Take the emotion out of the argument and let's talk facts. I am not an oil expert, but spent 15 years working in a large integrated steelworks '86-'01. There was one fundamental change that impacted all maintenance activities: RCM reliability centered maintenance.
Part of this RCM project involved oil sampling, trust me there are no bigger hydraulic power packs than in a Hot Rolling mill. Around '88 the steelworks went onto a program of constant regular oil analysis of all their hydraulic packs, regular analysis told the whole story, the impact was a massive saving in co$t$, both in oil and filters. The analysis also told the state of wear in the packs, took out all the guesswork. Regular oil and filter changes as orchestrated by manufacturers and suppliers was found to be too frequent....as you would expect of course ! Any bells ringing here ?
Our beloved motorcycle manufacturers and dearly loved oil companies want to sell us more, they are hungry for our dollar. But science is evolving, technology is advancing and with the help of forums like this information is spreading ever faster.
Who cares what colour the packaging our oil comes in or what nonsense the advertising throws at us, only by analysing the oil will we know if it is working. There is hope for our children, I have grown old being manipulated by the players in the vehicle/ motorcyle industry, as analysis becomes cheaper the myths will continue to evaporate. Viva la revolution !
Cheers from downunder.
Part of this RCM project involved oil sampling, trust me there are no bigger hydraulic power packs than in a Hot Rolling mill. Around '88 the steelworks went onto a program of constant regular oil analysis of all their hydraulic packs, regular analysis told the whole story, the impact was a massive saving in co$t$, both in oil and filters. The analysis also told the state of wear in the packs, took out all the guesswork. Regular oil and filter changes as orchestrated by manufacturers and suppliers was found to be too frequent....as you would expect of course ! Any bells ringing here ?
Our beloved motorcycle manufacturers and dearly loved oil companies want to sell us more, they are hungry for our dollar. But science is evolving, technology is advancing and with the help of forums like this information is spreading ever faster.
Who cares what colour the packaging our oil comes in or what nonsense the advertising throws at us, only by analysing the oil will we know if it is working. There is hope for our children, I have grown old being manipulated by the players in the vehicle/ motorcyle industry, as analysis becomes cheaper the myths will continue to evaporate. Viva la revolution !
Cheers from downunder.
Originally Posted By: jerzey
i agree and disagree . 1st my filter is $12 and that’s the best price i can find anywhere for a gsxr 600 filter. 2nd filter are not designed for 4-5k mile oil changed. they are made to last or exceed the oem recommendation some recommended 3k some recommend 10K so the filter must work to that level
You need to check out Amazon.com . Two Purolators are less than 12.00 . Free shipping on orders 25. and over. And yes, they are the "unique" Suzuki thread pitch. Use them exclusively on my SV650S
i agree and disagree . 1st my filter is $12 and that’s the best price i can find anywhere for a gsxr 600 filter. 2nd filter are not designed for 4-5k mile oil changed. they are made to last or exceed the oem recommendation some recommended 3k some recommend 10K so the filter must work to that level
You need to check out Amazon.com . Two Purolators are less than 12.00 . Free shipping on orders 25. and over. And yes, they are the "unique" Suzuki thread pitch. Use them exclusively on my SV650S
"Regular oil and filter changes as orchestrated by manufacturers and suppliers was found to be too frequent....as you would expect of course ! Any bells ringing here ?"
That's the point I've been trying to make. Consumers are being led down the garden path by big businesses of all types and oil companies aren't any different.
"Buy and pay more for our oil. Sure it cost three times as much as the other guy's oil but it's better." If that's not bad enough, proponents of their products actually recommend to change it more often than necessary as well. Needless waste!
So many people fall for this scam that it's ridiculous. It doesn't matter to me if that's what they want to do for their own machines. However when they start preaching the manufacturer's sales pitch and suggesting to others that they should do the same, I feel they're misleading people.
I'm certain that there is a huge number of motorcyclists who use relatively inexpensive HDEO, change it at recommended intervals and re-use oil filters who've never had an oil related mechanical problem. I am one of them. I've run numerous ATVs and motorcycles for many, many years using the above oil and method and have yet to have a problem. I'm certain that I've saved a great deal of money doing this over the years.
As you've mentioned, numerous oil analyses have proved that oil is often underutilized before it's changed. Oil analyses posted on this forum have repeatedly shown that HDEO is an ideal lubricant for bikes and often exceeds manufacturers requirements.
I still don't understand why the boutique oil proponents would continue to argue with success. Hopefully, these discussions will help guide the uninitiated in the right direction to help them select a lubricant that will be more than sufficient for their machine without throwing money away needlessly.
That's the point I've been trying to make. Consumers are being led down the garden path by big businesses of all types and oil companies aren't any different.
"Buy and pay more for our oil. Sure it cost three times as much as the other guy's oil but it's better." If that's not bad enough, proponents of their products actually recommend to change it more often than necessary as well. Needless waste!
So many people fall for this scam that it's ridiculous. It doesn't matter to me if that's what they want to do for their own machines. However when they start preaching the manufacturer's sales pitch and suggesting to others that they should do the same, I feel they're misleading people.
I'm certain that there is a huge number of motorcyclists who use relatively inexpensive HDEO, change it at recommended intervals and re-use oil filters who've never had an oil related mechanical problem. I am one of them. I've run numerous ATVs and motorcycles for many, many years using the above oil and method and have yet to have a problem. I'm certain that I've saved a great deal of money doing this over the years.
As you've mentioned, numerous oil analyses have proved that oil is often underutilized before it's changed. Oil analyses posted on this forum have repeatedly shown that HDEO is an ideal lubricant for bikes and often exceeds manufacturers requirements.
I still don't understand why the boutique oil proponents would continue to argue with success. Hopefully, these discussions will help guide the uninitiated in the right direction to help them select a lubricant that will be more than sufficient for their machine without throwing money away needlessly.
Originally Posted By: beanoil
Originally Posted By: jerzey
i agree and disagree . 1st my filter is $12 and that’s the best price i can find anywhere for a gsxr 600 filter. 2nd filter are not designed for 4-5k mile oil changed. they are made to last or exceed the oem recommendation some recommended 3k some recommend 10K so the filter must work to that level
You need to check out Amazon.com . Two Purolators are less than 12.00 . Free shipping on orders 25. and over. And yes, they are the "unique" Suzuki thread pitch. Use them exclusively on my SV650S
Correct, that's where I buy filters for my SV650. Buying the Suzuki brand is a massive rip-off.
Suzuki GSXR 600 97-08 == ML16818
http://www.amazon.com/Purolator-ML16818-...9008&sr=8-1
Originally Posted By: jerzey
i agree and disagree . 1st my filter is $12 and that’s the best price i can find anywhere for a gsxr 600 filter. 2nd filter are not designed for 4-5k mile oil changed. they are made to last or exceed the oem recommendation some recommended 3k some recommend 10K so the filter must work to that level
You need to check out Amazon.com . Two Purolators are less than 12.00 . Free shipping on orders 25. and over. And yes, they are the "unique" Suzuki thread pitch. Use them exclusively on my SV650S
Correct, that's where I buy filters for my SV650. Buying the Suzuki brand is a massive rip-off.
Suzuki GSXR 600 97-08 == ML16818
http://www.amazon.com/Purolator-ML16818-...9008&sr=8-1
Last edited:
Is the spud the filter screws onto replaceable on those bikes? might pay to change it out with one that common filters fit.I know they make an adapter for older Goldwings that lets you use spin on filters instead of the drop in type.,,
Well, it's possible that it is threaded into the front of the engine cases, but I've never really tried to take off the "spud."
If would be nice if we could use more common filters because there isn't much selection of aftermarket Suzuki filters.....
If would be nice if we could use more common filters because there isn't much selection of aftermarket Suzuki filters.....
!!!!!!!!!!update!!!!!!!!!!!!
been using the t6 now for 3 oil changes doing 2000-3500 oci and im loving it. but i was thinking about just going with the non synthatic 15-40 and seeing how that holds up since im doing 2500 miles on avg. any cons to that idea???
been using the t6 now for 3 oil changes doing 2000-3500 oci and im loving it. but i was thinking about just going with the non synthatic 15-40 and seeing how that holds up since im doing 2500 miles on avg. any cons to that idea???
Last edited:
Yeah, at 3K OCI, the T6 might be overkill. I've got just enough T6 leftover that I will probably try it at my next change (in 500 miles), but after that, it looks like Rotella T 15w40 might be a more economical way to go.
Last edited:
True. Mine only holds 1.5 quarts.
Originally Posted By: jerzey
where at???????
local motorcycle shop has a huge clearance going on right now.. anything on the table (or under it) 70% off i happend to look under the table and found oil and grease.. bell ray waterproof grease was $1.50 a tube, picked up 2 tubes and all six quarts i found under there.. very good day
$32 total
where at???????
local motorcycle shop has a huge clearance going on right now.. anything on the table (or under it) 70% off i happend to look under the table and found oil and grease.. bell ray waterproof grease was $1.50 a tube, picked up 2 tubes and all six quarts i found under there.. very good day
$32 totalOriginally Posted By: dsmith41
Rotella T6 is just fine. It has the JASO MA spec for wet clutches listed right on the bottle. The 15w40 Triple Protection flavor is okay with wet clutches as well. Rotella seems to work very well in bikes at a fraction of the cost of motorcycle specific oils.
Wow, this is a new package? My old T which is now called T6 (both same UPC code) did not have that label for the JASO MA so it was just added? How safe would this be to use in my Honda PWC that which see a lot of high RPM on the water. This is the most universal oil I have ever seen. I use this on my Jeep V8 and it works good up 7500miles. I thought this was a diesel oil? Worried foaming and shearing using this. Thanks
Rotella T6 is just fine. It has the JASO MA spec for wet clutches listed right on the bottle. The 15w40 Triple Protection flavor is okay with wet clutches as well. Rotella seems to work very well in bikes at a fraction of the cost of motorcycle specific oils.
Wow, this is a new package? My old T which is now called T6 (both same UPC code) did not have that label for the JASO MA so it was just added? How safe would this be to use in my Honda PWC that which see a lot of high RPM on the water. This is the most universal oil I have ever seen. I use this on my Jeep V8 and it works good up 7500miles. I thought this was a diesel oil? Worried foaming and shearing using this. Thanks
I finally changed out the Duron XL for the new RT6 after 5100 kms. Shifts all buttery-smooth but, then again, so did the Duron XL when it was new. 2k7 SV650N. I'm the 2nd owner.
The amount of ferrous metal stuck to the magnetic drain plug is half of what it was after the last oil change. 15,500 kms on the bike, so I guess it's finally broken in. (or my shifting technique is getting better)
The amount of ferrous metal stuck to the magnetic drain plug is half of what it was after the last oil change. 15,500 kms on the bike, so I guess it's finally broken in. (or my shifting technique is getting better)
- Status