Lubro-Moly Anti-friction additives

[chevrofreak]

Originally Posted By: Tornado Red
If it was harmful, there would not be so many major companies putting it in their products.


Most engine oils use molybdenum dithiocarbamate rather than molybdenum disulfide.

 

[chevrofreak]

BTW, that bottle I mixed that teaspoon of stuff into hadn't settled, but I did notice that it was sticking to the walls of the bottle. It must be quite polar.

 

[demarpaint]

I poured the stuff into an oil bottle filled half with oil. Then I shook it up really good, it was poured into the engine after I poured in two quarts. Then I washed it down so to speak with the remaining quarts. What is interesting is the quart container that I poured it into and shook it up is coated with the stuff, even now 3-4 weeks later.

Next time one of you guys try it, save the metal container, and have a look at the sides of it on the inside. It stays coated for a very long time. My bet is the moly will probably be present for at least three 5000 mile OCI's. OD'ing or using it at every OCI is probably not a good idea, for anyone who thinks a little is good so a lot must be great. JMO

As a side note the last 2 qts of oil I poured some of it into the metal container and shook it up, then poured it into the engine. I did that a few times and was unable to get all the moly off the inside walls of the can.

 

[Tornado Red]

Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
BTW, that bottle I mixed that teaspoon of stuff into hadn't settled, but I did notice that it was sticking to the walls of the bottle. It must be quite polar.


Polar, yes. There are other substances, compounds, etc. that are far less benign and also want to stick to metal parts. That's what makes a product like LM MoS2 so good, because not only does it produce less friction between metal parts, but it it keeps those other substances from attaching to the metal.

Maybe this is why even small "doses" seem to be beneficial.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I poured the stuff into an oil bottle filled half with oil. Then I shook it up really good...


I did almost the same when I added very thick VSOT in to my engines. I poured all needed oil in to the engine but save the last 5-8 ounces of oil in an oil bottle and pour 1 ounce per quart of VSOT in to that oil bottle. I shook it up very well then placed it in the engine compartment. On the next drive, I went to a gas station and while filling up the gas tank, I poured the very warm bottle of VSOT mixed with oil into the very warm engine. This way the very heavy additive can easily mix with oil in the crankcase.

 

[ionbeam22]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint


Next time one of you guys try it, save the metal container, and have a look at the sides of it on the inside. It stays coated for a very long time.


What you are paying the $6 for is for one those colloidal particles to get smooshed at any microscopic point of friction in the engine.

It's pretty clear that the MoS2 in the lubromoly stays dispersed in the product over human time scales, to say nothing of the intense mixing that goes on in an engine.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Gary I was not disagreeing with anything you said, just asking a question, and following your humor in using the term "snake oil" for clean up. All good fun.


Oh ..okay

I thought you didn't get it. My bad.

Quote:
I see what is going on in the pictures, and perhaps the viscosity of the VSOT had a lot to do with the problems you had with the moly.


I dunno

I just know what happened.

LubroMoly may be a great product. My only point to even butting in here was to attempt to show people that more is not necessarily "much mo bettah".

Molakule repeatedly advised members (who were ALL OVER VSOT when a VOA came out) to use it sparingly (like 1oz/quart MAX). Naturally, we (well, me anyway) all knew better and just used it as we pleased.

A visual testimony to my never ending learning experience. The feats and the follies.

 

[Izb]

I dislike any Moly (MoS2, MoTDC, MoDTC) in motor oil.
I have noticed many times (in UOAs of Motul 300V with 850ppm of sulphur, LubroMoly,...) that excess MOLY 300ppm greatly increases the corrosion (and wear) of TIN and sometimes copper and lead.
Look at first UOA: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=198027

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
Gary I was not disagreeing with anything you said, just asking a question, and following your humor in using the term "snake oil" for clean up. All good fun.


Oh ..okay

I thought you didn't get it. My bad.

Quote:
I see what is going on in the pictures, and perhaps the viscosity of the VSOT had a lot to do with the problems you had with the moly.


I dunno

I just know what happened.

LubroMoly may be a great product. My only point to even butting in here was to attempt to show people that more is not necessarily "much mo bettah".

Molakule repeatedly advised members (who were ALL OVER VSOT when a VOA came out) to use it sparingly (like 1oz/quart MAX). Naturally, we (well, me anyway) all knew better and just used it as we pleased.

A visual testimony to my never ending learning experience. The feats and the follies.




Thanks Gary. A lot of us, myself included at times have fallen into the "A little is good, A lot must be great mentality". When I was using VOST I was adding an ounce/qt of oil. Probably because the stuff is so thick. If it were thinner I might have fallen for the trap myself!

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Izb
I dislike any Moly (MoS2, MoTDC, MoDTC) in motor oil.
I have noticed many times (in UOAs of Motul 300V with 850ppm of sulphur, LubroMoly,...) that excess MOLY 300ppm greatly increases the corrosion (and wear) of TIN and sometimes copper and lead.
Look at first UOA: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=198027


Was this was for a diesel application?

 

[SuperDave456]

Yep, that application on TDI forums was for a Diesel. Interesting to note that they were split on what dropped the wear numbers.
Some were stating the additive, others were stating that he was using more biodiesel.

But from what I understand straight biodiesel does not run well in direct injected engines like those on the TDI. BioDiesel from what I have heard has more lubricant like properties than normal diesel and will cause problems with direct injection. Although due to the more lube like fuel there are lower wear numbers in the UOA.

Although this guy's TDI may not have direct injection... so all my information may be wrong for this guy.

 

[Tornado Red]

Originally Posted By: Izb
I dislike any Moly (MoS2, MoTDC, MoDTC) in motor oil.
I have noticed many times (in UOAs of Motul 300V with 850ppm of sulphur, LubroMoly,...) that excess MOLY 300ppm greatly increases the corrosion (and wear) of TIN and sometimes copper and lead.
Look at first UOA: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=198027


That was my engine, and I do not see what you claim to see. In UOA #7, I added enough MoS2 to bring the ppm up to 323, from zero in the previous sample. Iron dropped from 34 to 24 ppm, copper dropped from 6 to 4 ppm, tin rose from 0 to 7 ppm (still a tiny percentage), aluminum dropped from 12 to 8 ppm.

Overall, it was an outstanding UOA. I believe that was actually the CI-4+ version of Turbo Diesel Truck, when TDT and Delvac 1 were the same formulation in different packaging. Look at that zinc and calcium, that was some pretty strong stuff.

Notice that, through the residual moly two oil changes later was only 6 ppm, the wear metals were still extremely low. This illustrates the plating effect.

Also notice that a full 300 ml can was added to about 4.5 quarts of Mobil 5w40. Currently I would advise adding only 150 ml to that much engine oil. And based on what I've seen and heard, I don't think it's required with every oil change.

 

[Kaboomba]

After reading this thread, it looks like modest amounts of MoS2 go a long way, but a soluble type of polar Moly molacule might be better than MoS2.

Now I'm debating a purchase of powdered MoS2 to add 1-2 tsp to my SSO.

Super FIne is 1.5 micron max--not likely to be picked up by most full-flow filters. If you have a bypass, you might catch some of it.

K

 

[lipadj46]

Yes soluble moly is better but I have a sneaking suspicion it is also much more expensive. IMMO If you want to add MoS2 to your oil stick with lubro moly for $7 ~every 3 OCIs.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Kaboomba
After reading this thread, it looks like modest amounts of MoS2 go a long way, but a soluble type of polar Moly molacule might be better than MoS2.

Now I'm debating a purchase of powdered MoS2 to add 1-2 tsp to my SSO.

Super FIne is 1.5 micron max--not likely to be picked up by most full-flow filters. If you have a bypass, you might catch some of it.

K


I have that powdered moly I use it for coating bullets. I mixed some into oil and tested it this summer in my lawn mower. IIRC the mix I used worked out to be about 1 tablespoon to a qt of oil. I blended it through then had it shaken on a paint shaker to get a good mix of the product. I added the treated oil to my mower which would smoke on occasion during start ups. I used the mower for about half an hour after I added the mix. The mower smoke issue stopped for the entire summer/fall season, the mower ran just fine. When I changed the oil for the fall I did not add the moly. I'll see come spring time if the smoke condition is back.

All the research I did on the product lead me to believe it will not get trapped in a filter. If you have any concerns use a filter like a Purolator Classic filter or one of the less expensive filters for the OCI that you use the MoS2 powder in. After that you can go with your favorite filter. HTH

 

[gtx510]

I've been thinking about crushing up some calcium pills for diy Redline Shockproof

How about pouring in some parkerizing acid that contains moly?
Or just dissolving moly powder in an acid and then mixing with oil?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: gtx510
I've been thinking about crushing up some calcium pills for diy Redline Shockproof

How about pouring in some parkerizing acid that contains moly?
Or just dissolving moly powder in an acid and then mixing with oil?


Give it a shot and report back. I'd be interested in the results, and I'm sure others will be too.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
I am not going to doubt what you have posted, I am just wondering why you did not bring this to our attention earlier.


I've posted this before in various places on the board from the first discovery of it ..through now.

Since "MOLY!!!" was getting so much attention (how many pages??), I figured that I'd bring it up one more time as a public service message. Look what I (me, myself, I) did!! Don't make the same silly mistake!!!

 

[Tornado Red]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Since "MOLY!!!" was getting so much attention (how many pages??), I figured that I'd bring it up one more time as a public service message. Look what I (me, myself, I) did!! Don't make the same silly mistake!!!


But a warning about a totally different product is not a persuasive argument against LM MoS2.

 

[Gary Allan]

Again, how do we know that the MOLY in VSOT isn't identical to that in Lubro-Moly and how do we know that some creative and all knowing fellow member won't pour two bottles in with one finger in his nose and another in his ear??