Interesting...
Lubro-Moly Anti-friction additives
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Originally Posted By: daman
Interesting...
That's what I thought......Interesting?
Interesting...
That's what I thought......Interesting?
I would say it's lowering friction thus engine is not working as hard,i think this is turning out to be a winner.
The oil pressure is well within the normal range. Since it is an eclectic gauge and not mechanical I don't have actual numbers. This was just an observation and something I thought I'd share. I'm not the least bit concerned since an engine is oiled by flow and not pressure. It could mean the pump is not working as hard, it could mean the sender is due for replacement [coincidence shortly after the OC], it could mean the oil is flowing better?
Opinions, ideas, and discussion is what I'm after, since there seems to be a lot of interest in this product lately.
Opinions, ideas, and discussion is what I'm after, since there seems to be a lot of interest in this product lately.
could it have thinned the oil some?
thanks for the update demarpaint
thanks for the update demarpaint
Anytime!!!!!!!!!
It possibly could have thinned it. But consider it is only a 300ml bottle, and I think it is a 30 grade oil?
It possibly could have thinned it. But consider it is only a 300ml bottle, and I think it is a 30 grade oil?
that was my next question ok.
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Why do you think lower oil pressure is better? I can understand lower temperature is good.
Oil pumps are gear-pumps i.e. constant displacement pumps which means that, for a given rpm, oil flow rate is constant no matter what oil temperature is. Certainly, there is some slippage but it happens when oil gets thinner. Oil pressure depends on flow resistance i.e. smaller passages create higher back-pressure but volume-wise, it still flows at the same rate. Lower oil pressure in this case would just indicate that oil flows easier.
Of course, if the pump is worn-out and gears don't mesh as before, it will reduce pressure and flow rate as well i.e. more oil will just spin inside the pump.
If some passages are blocked, oil pressure will rise. So high oil pressure doesn't mean good think.
Either way, if the pump is out of pressure-rpm normal operating range, it means something is not OK. If we are talking about minute changes, lower pressure is better, or if I can say, best operating point for a given P and T is the lowest pressure in the operating pressure range.
Why do you think lower oil pressure is better? I can understand lower temperature is good.
Oil pumps are gear-pumps i.e. constant displacement pumps which means that, for a given rpm, oil flow rate is constant no matter what oil temperature is. Certainly, there is some slippage but it happens when oil gets thinner. Oil pressure depends on flow resistance i.e. smaller passages create higher back-pressure but volume-wise, it still flows at the same rate. Lower oil pressure in this case would just indicate that oil flows easier.
Of course, if the pump is worn-out and gears don't mesh as before, it will reduce pressure and flow rate as well i.e. more oil will just spin inside the pump.
If some passages are blocked, oil pressure will rise. So high oil pressure doesn't mean good think.
Either way, if the pump is out of pressure-rpm normal operating range, it means something is not OK. If we are talking about minute changes, lower pressure is better, or if I can say, best operating point for a given P and T is the lowest pressure in the operating pressure range.
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Thanks NIK. As I said it is well within the normal band, the needle is steady not pulsing which might indicate a problem with the bearings. It is just slightly lower than it normally is, my thought was the oil is probably flowing easier. If I find the time I might change the oil sending unit, it has 180,000 miles on it and could be due for replacement.
An interesting side note, which I forgot about when I was posting earlier. I had it inside the garage to replace an air filter and do some minor work on it. I started it up, and actually noticed the engine was quieter. I can certainly hear the engine better when it is inside the garage. The sound of this engine is actually quite good, and noticeably quieter than before. So far the results are positive in my book. I'm not checking mpgs the winter throws everything off as far as I'm concerned. My wife has a habit of idling it longer than she usually does.
An interesting side note, which I forgot about when I was posting earlier. I had it inside the garage to replace an air filter and do some minor work on it. I started it up, and actually noticed the engine was quieter. I can certainly hear the engine better when it is inside the garage. The sound of this engine is actually quite good, and noticeably quieter than before. So far the results are positive in my book. I'm not checking mpgs the winter throws everything off as far as I'm concerned. My wife has a habit of idling it longer than she usually does.
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I wonder if this stuff works like VSOT? There you never have to add it again if you're using the right oil. 150ppm of stead drip from the slug it forms in your oil pan..
Oh ..and I had to use snake oil to get it out. Several oil changes didn't seem to eliminate the moly leachate from showing itself.
Oh ..and I had to use snake oil to get it out. Several oil changes didn't seem to eliminate the moly leachate from showing itself.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I wonder if this stuff works like VSOT? .
Nope, totally different.
I wonder if this stuff works like VSOT? .
Nope, totally different.
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Originally Posted By: Tornado Red
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I wonder if this stuff works like VSOT? .
Nope, totally different.
How do I know this to be so?
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I wonder if this stuff works like VSOT? .
Nope, totally different.
How do I know this to be so?
I cannot tell you what is in VSOT, but MoS2 contains just concentrated MoS2 in a harmless petroleum solution. Moly is a common additive in many conventional and synthetic oils -- MoS2 just lets you add some to those oils which don't contain any moly or don't contain very much.
If it was harmful, there would not be so many major companies putting it in their products.
If it was harmful, there would not be so many major companies putting it in their products.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I wonder if this stuff works like VSOT? There you never have to add it again if you're using the right oil. 150ppm of stead drip from the slug it forms in your oil pan..
Oh ..and I had to use snake oil to get it out. Several oil changes didn't seem to eliminate the moly leachate from showing itself.
I'm missing the point of why the "snake oil" to get it out? Moly is a good thing that you'd want in the engine, did it cause a problem? VSOT was a good product. Eventually it would have been used up or removed after a few or several oil changes. IMO is if you used an oil that contained no moly eventually the moly would have been gone.
I wonder if this stuff works like VSOT? There you never have to add it again if you're using the right oil. 150ppm of stead drip from the slug it forms in your oil pan..
Oh ..and I had to use snake oil to get it out. Several oil changes didn't seem to eliminate the moly leachate from showing itself.
I'm missing the point of why the "snake oil" to get it out? Moly is a good thing that you'd want in the engine, did it cause a problem? VSOT was a good product. Eventually it would have been used up or removed after a few or several oil changes. IMO is if you used an oil that contained no moly eventually the moly would have been gone.
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Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I wonder if this stuff works like VSOT? There you never have to add it again if you're using the right oil. 150ppm of stead drip from the slug it forms in your oil pan..
Oh ..and I had to use snake oil to get it out. Several oil changes didn't seem to eliminate the moly leachate from showing itself.
I'm missing the point of why the "snake oil" to get it out? Moly is a good thing that you'd want in the engine, did it cause a problem? VSOT was a good product. Eventually it would have been used up or removed after a few or several oil changes. IMO is if you used an oil that contained no moly eventually the moly would have been gone.
The point was the stuff sank out like Pb balloons in my engine oil pan and filter. It remained inert until I used Bruce's oil with NO MOLY in it. UOA's were filled with all kinds of other stuff that it grabbed on the way out of suspension.
There's no way anyone would "engineer" an additive with a heel process of leaching into the sump. Suppose I had added one bottle per OCI as recommended on the bottle and never cut open a filter? Eventually I'd never be able to fit 4 quarts in the pan without over filling it by 25% or more.
What you may be missing, Frank, is that the image is before I even had Bruce's oil in there. That was after a RTS run. I had to use the "snake oil" in between Bruce's oil use since we kept wonder where the moly and silicon kept coming from. After the "snake oil" treatment, the moly ..and most of the other readings calmed down to sensible levels.
Just be careful on how much of this stuff (any high potency additive) you put in at one time. Double your moly ..triple it ..but don't dose the heck out of it thinking you're duplicating Honda's double secret probation pre-Imperial-pre-feudal monk assembly process.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I wonder if this stuff works like VSOT? There you never have to add it again if you're using the right oil. 150ppm of stead drip from the slug it forms in your oil pan..
Oh ..and I had to use snake oil to get it out. Several oil changes didn't seem to eliminate the moly leachate from showing itself.
I'm missing the point of why the "snake oil" to get it out? Moly is a good thing that you'd want in the engine, did it cause a problem? VSOT was a good product. Eventually it would have been used up or removed after a few or several oil changes. IMO is if you used an oil that contained no moly eventually the moly would have been gone.
The point was the stuff sank out like Pb balloons in my engine oil pan and filter. It remained inert until I used Bruce's oil with NO MOLY in it. UOA's were filled with all kinds of other stuff that it grabbed on the way out of suspension.
There's no way anyone would "engineer" an additive with a heel process of leaching into the sump. Suppose I had added one bottle per OCI as recommended on the bottle and never cut open a filter? Eventually I'd never be able to fit 4 quarts in the pan without over filling it by 25% or more.
What you may be missing, Frank, is that the image is before I even had Bruce's oil in there. That was after a RTS run. I had to use the "snake oil" in between Bruce's oil use since we kept wonder where the moly and silicon kept coming from. After the "snake oil" treatment, the moly ..and most of the other readings calmed down to sensible levels.
Just be careful on how much of this stuff (any high potency additive) you put in at one time. Double your moly ..triple it ..but don't dose the heck out of it thinking you're duplicating Honda's double secret probation pre-Imperial-pre-feudal monk assembly process.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
The point was the stuff sank out like Pb balloons in my engine oil pan and filter.
I have 2 concerns with MoS2:
1. I agree with Gary that is can settle out causing sludge/buildup since it is not soluble. That is likely why it is recommended to use only every other oil change - for the cleaning effect on the in-between oil change to stop or slow this process
2. While very lubricious, MoS2 is known to break down at high pressure/temps and can create gritty by-products
I prefer soluble moly, which is what is used in most modern oil formulations. If you are looking for a soluble moly add, the only one I know of is Mugen MT105, but it is very expensive. The good news is that it would not take that much for a recurring treatment (much less than what is recommended).
I have been curious about MT105 and have been thinking about trying it out sometime, has anyone here used it?
Linky below:
http://www.inlinefour.com/mugmtentreat.html
The point was the stuff sank out like Pb balloons in my engine oil pan and filter.
I have 2 concerns with MoS2:
1. I agree with Gary that is can settle out causing sludge/buildup since it is not soluble. That is likely why it is recommended to use only every other oil change - for the cleaning effect on the in-between oil change to stop or slow this process
2. While very lubricious, MoS2 is known to break down at high pressure/temps and can create gritty by-products
I prefer soluble moly, which is what is used in most modern oil formulations. If you are looking for a soluble moly add, the only one I know of is Mugen MT105, but it is very expensive. The good news is that it would not take that much for a recurring treatment (much less than what is recommended).
I have been curious about MT105 and have been thinking about trying it out sometime, has anyone here used it?
Linky below:
http://www.inlinefour.com/mugmtentreat.html
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Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Oh ..and I had to use snake oil to get it out. Several oil changes didn't seem to eliminate the moly leachate from showing itself.
Yes Gary you were who I was talking about in the post above, you saw the moly leaching out after you changed the oil. I believe you used ARx to clean the moly out? I've used the Lubro Moly in my truck and have had the oil pan off and cut open filters and did not see what you saw in your car so maybe the product you used is a little different than this one?
Oh ..and I had to use snake oil to get it out. Several oil changes didn't seem to eliminate the moly leachate from showing itself.
Yes Gary you were who I was talking about in the post above, you saw the moly leaching out after you changed the oil. I believe you used ARx to clean the moly out? I've used the Lubro Moly in my truck and have had the oil pan off and cut open filters and did not see what you saw in your car so maybe the product you used is a little different than this one?
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I wonder if this stuff works like VSOT? There you never have to add it again if you're using the right oil. 150ppm of stead drip from the slug it forms in your oil pan..
Oh ..and I had to use snake oil to get it out. Several oil changes didn't seem to eliminate the moly leachate from showing itself.
Gary, this thread started on 9/21/09
In September, there were 3 replies
In October, there were 7 replies
In November, there were 12 replies
In December, there were 62 replies
In January, there has been 45 replies up until you posted in this thread, so there have been 129 replies.
I am not going to doubt what you have posted, I am just wondering why you did not bring this to our attention earlier.
I wonder if this stuff works like VSOT? There you never have to add it again if you're using the right oil. 150ppm of stead drip from the slug it forms in your oil pan..
Oh ..and I had to use snake oil to get it out. Several oil changes didn't seem to eliminate the moly leachate from showing itself.
Gary, this thread started on 9/21/09
In September, there were 3 replies
In October, there were 7 replies
In November, there were 12 replies
In December, there were 62 replies
In January, there has been 45 replies up until you posted in this thread, so there have been 129 replies.
I am not going to doubt what you have posted, I am just wondering why you did not bring this to our attention earlier.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I wonder if this stuff works like VSOT? There you never have to add it again if you're using the right oil. 150ppm of stead drip from the slug it forms in your oil pan..
Oh ..and I had to use snake oil to get it out. Several oil changes didn't seem to eliminate the moly leachate from showing itself.
I'm missing the point of why the "snake oil" to get it out? Moly is a good thing that you'd want in the engine, did it cause a problem? VSOT was a good product. Eventually it would have been used up or removed after a few or several oil changes. IMO is if you used an oil that contained no moly eventually the moly would have been gone.
The point was the stuff sank out like Pb balloons in my engine oil pan and filter. It remained inert until I used Bruce's oil with NO MOLY in it. UOA's were filled with all kinds of other stuff that it grabbed on the way out of suspension.
There's no way anyone would "engineer" an additive with a heel process of leaching into the sump. Suppose I had added one bottle per OCI as recommended on the bottle and never cut open a filter? Eventually I'd never be able to fit 4 quarts in the pan without over filling it by 25% or more.
What you may be missing, Frank, is that the image is before I even had Bruce's oil in there. That was after a RTS run. I had to use the "snake oil" in between Bruce's oil use since we kept wonder where the moly and silicon kept coming from. After the "snake oil" treatment, the moly ..and most of the other readings calmed down to sensible levels.
Just be careful on how much of this stuff (any high potency additive) you put in at one time. Double your moly ..triple it ..but don't dose the heck out of it thinking you're duplicating Honda's double secret probation pre-Imperial-pre-feudal monk assembly process.
Gary I was not disagreeing with anything you said, just asking a question, and following your humor in using the term "snake oil" for clean up. All good fun.
I am testing Lubro-Moly in a HM beater, and have mentioned my observations in another post up above. I see what is going on in the pictures, and perhaps the viscosity of the VSOT had a lot to do with the problems you had with the moly. I'm not trying to stick up for Lubro-Moly please understand that. I remember many, many years ago when STP was the craze. I had a friend who used it without fail every OCI. He had a coat of slimy muck in the bottom of his oil pan that was unreal. Maybe that is what happened inside your filters and in your oil pan. Maybe the moly that was trapped in that slime from the thick VSOT was slowly mixing into the fresh thin oil, causing the leaching even after you stopped using it? Lubro moly seems to pour just like any 5W30 oil, and maybe it gets distributed better as a result.
I do agree that adding the Lubro-moly every OCI would be a mistake, and the company recommends against it.
Did you notice any change in viscosity in UOA in the oil once you stopped with the VSOT? I'm thinking the base they mixed VSOT with was just not a good base for the moly, just too thick in plain English. They no longer make the product, so maybe that is a good thing?
I'm just sharing ideas here, glad you are sharing yours.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I wonder if this stuff works like VSOT? There you never have to add it again if you're using the right oil. 150ppm of stead drip from the slug it forms in your oil pan..
Oh ..and I had to use snake oil to get it out. Several oil changes didn't seem to eliminate the moly leachate from showing itself.
I'm missing the point of why the "snake oil" to get it out? Moly is a good thing that you'd want in the engine, did it cause a problem? VSOT was a good product. Eventually it would have been used up or removed after a few or several oil changes. IMO is if you used an oil that contained no moly eventually the moly would have been gone.
The point was the stuff sank out like Pb balloons in my engine oil pan and filter. It remained inert until I used Bruce's oil with NO MOLY in it. UOA's were filled with all kinds of other stuff that it grabbed on the way out of suspension.
There's no way anyone would "engineer" an additive with a heel process of leaching into the sump. Suppose I had added one bottle per OCI as recommended on the bottle and never cut open a filter? Eventually I'd never be able to fit 4 quarts in the pan without over filling it by 25% or more.
What you may be missing, Frank, is that the image is before I even had Bruce's oil in there. That was after a RTS run. I had to use the "snake oil" in between Bruce's oil use since we kept wonder where the moly and silicon kept coming from. After the "snake oil" treatment, the moly ..and most of the other readings calmed down to sensible levels.
Just be careful on how much of this stuff (any high potency additive) you put in at one time. Double your moly ..triple it ..but don't dose the heck out of it thinking you're duplicating Honda's double secret probation pre-Imperial-pre-feudal monk assembly process.
Gary I was not disagreeing with anything you said, just asking a question, and following your humor in using the term "snake oil" for clean up. All good fun.
I am testing Lubro-Moly in a HM beater, and have mentioned my observations in another post up above. I see what is going on in the pictures, and perhaps the viscosity of the VSOT had a lot to do with the problems you had with the moly. I'm not trying to stick up for Lubro-Moly please understand that. I remember many, many years ago when STP was the craze. I had a friend who used it without fail every OCI. He had a coat of slimy muck in the bottom of his oil pan that was unreal. Maybe that is what happened inside your filters and in your oil pan. Maybe the moly that was trapped in that slime from the thick VSOT was slowly mixing into the fresh thin oil, causing the leaching even after you stopped using it? Lubro moly seems to pour just like any 5W30 oil, and maybe it gets distributed better as a result.
I do agree that adding the Lubro-moly every OCI would be a mistake, and the company recommends against it.
Did you notice any change in viscosity in UOA in the oil once you stopped with the VSOT? I'm thinking the base they mixed VSOT with was just not a good base for the moly, just too thick in plain English. They no longer make the product, so maybe that is a good thing?
I'm just sharing ideas here, glad you are sharing yours.
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