LSJR blends up a custom oil in the lab

[rstcso]

I cannot speak for others. I'm only speaking for myself and my interpretation of what I'm seeing, filtered by my experience.

And others should be doing the same. Realizing this isn't true the majoriity of the time, but I would hope, regardless of the level of education and training of those whom you're getting information from, whether a YouTuber, BITOG, anywhere on the internet, and especially a dealership service advisor , you'd cross-check and use due diligence to verify information. I'm preaching to myself, too.

There has been some great information posted within this thread so far and enjoying the discussion.

 

[Hootbro]

I’d turn it around and ask if his limited, non-educational requirement certifications are sufficient for him to “blend up a custom oil in the lab”?

I once attended a course on metal forming because my boss couldn’t attend. Did that one course qualify me as some sort of fabricator? No it did not.

Well by all intents given his past work history, seems to be sufficient for him to do the work he does.

I work in Aerospace and we have similar people like LSJr and they are called "Engineering Technicians". They basically can do 90% of what an actual degree engineer can with usually either just an associates, trade tech degree, work experience or a combination of the sort. Most times they are working under already established standard and published methods and procedures. They do the actual hands on of touching and formulating the product where most Engineers really do not like to delve in and stay with the design and research aspect.

Engineering techs in many settings unless people know otherwise would be considered pretty much functional equals in most industry settings to a degree engineers. There is still that 10% that does have a need to come under a degree engineer review.

Degree holding people seem to get ruffled when their work scope can most times be done by actual SME's just as effectively.

 

[Tom NJ]

Formulating lubricants is a methodology. Briefly, the process is to establish goals (technical, marketing, & financial targets); define tests that confirm goals and support claims; identify potential ingredient types that affect tests (base oils and additives); obtain samples of identified ingredients based on supplier recommendations; create testing matrices; conduct tests and evaluate results against goal requirements; repeat as necessary.

I designed esters and formulated high performance lubricants such as jet engine oils (including the one most used by the US Military for the last 25 years) and various successful synthetic industrial and automotive oils, and have four patents, all with a high school degree and no certifications. Yes I had access to a good lubricants laboratory and quality chemists for consultation as needed, but one can initiate, design, direct, and manage the process without a formal higher education.

The formulation process is more logic than knowledge. You gain knowledge from experience as you go.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

My thoughts in no particular order. Here's a summary:

- this video will help many folks understand what goes into blending a custom lube (or really, any lube)
- Noobs take note ... when you say you want a "Pure synthetic" PAO oil, it just shows your ignorance. No "pure" PAO will work well because it has poor solubility, which is needed to carry the other necessary components in suspension. So it's very common to have either a grp III or VI in there as well.
- He uses a Wix 53148. He may know lubes, but he clearly is not up to date on the changes which have taken that brand way down the desirable ladder of quality after the M/H change
- His production and presentation are finally getting better. He doesn't yell, ramble on or repeat himself needlessly in this vid. Much better than his earlier efforts.
- Clearly, Frankenbrews are way past the capability of most any Joe Schmoe. But that won't stop folks from trying it anyway.

Want a good boutique lube for your expensive Porsche/Audi/MB/etc?
Just get something like HPL's Euro 5W-XX. Let them do the work for you; they're the experts - not you.

Filters are going the same route of nearly every mass produced product. Cheap parts, cheap materials along with the cheap labor = poor quality of what ever we buy these days. It has ramped up and become more obvious in the last 2-3 years. Nearly all manufacturers seem to have placed "cheapness" at the top of the list more than ever into their business models. Too bad for us customers. Getting harder and harder to find quality products. How many of us hope our long owned appliances keep going so we do not have to buy the new junk? I know I am one. Regardless what name is on the product. Means very little these days.

His production: while I followed his father's racing career and some of LSJRs work, I got the idea they were both nice people. Never thought either to be expert - top of their professions. I still have trouble and have barely ever been able to get thru his videos entirely.

Doing the work. I like to do as you mention. I let the experts do their jobs for us. I do enjoy most of the opinions at BITOG while keeping in mind ..... everyone has one just like other things.

 

[buster]

Food for thought:

Blending & formulation is the easy part. It’s like baking a cake, but just tweaking the ingredients to get the desired results. Having enough knowledge about the ingredients, can get you pretty close to the desired results quickly.

Developing the tests and the raw additives is the hard part. As, you’re making the ingredients. This is the Chem-E, Mech-E, chemistry background level, above a CLS.

Not saying the CLS is a trivial test, it’s not. It was actually pretty difficult ultimately. Mostly because the span of knowledge needed. But it also, has very little to do with motor oils and blending. Each is just one section of the test. The majority of the test is actually about industrial lubrication & failure types. As, that’s the historical context of the CLS - industrial lubricants for bearings and gearboxes.

Yeah it's the chemists making the additives, running the engine tests and designing moleclues that should have the Phd's.

Formulating and putting it all together (add packs) guided by a blender/additive supplier doesn't seem to hard if guided.

I've read formulating can be as much of an art as it is a science.

I think the real R&D is done by the additive companies who develop additives, chemistries and run tests.

The big guys and ones with engine labs can really do some great testing as we've seen.

All of the oil companies employ PhDs for this type of work.

 

[buster]

I've heard some say many boutique oils are "yesterday's tech boosted", which in some cases makes sense.

 

[DirectRejection]

I want my Calcium.

 

[buster]

There was a couple of videos from Lubrication Explained about the lack of innovation in lubricant world. If you think about it, it's kind of true. I mean HPL is essentially Mobil 1 TriSynthetic on steriods. Most if not all oils are using some add pack using Moly/boron/ca/mg and ZDP. Just varying ratios of base oil/additive blends with some tweaks and boosts. RL with PAO/POE and high additive levels. Nothing really new. Tried and true.

Then you find the guys that are making unique discoveries like Mobil 1 using unique chemistries from the cosmtic industry and asshless additives for their Redbull F1 oil etc. That's where the cutting edge is.

 

[rstcso]

I want my Calcium.

Get you some Ravenol VSE 0W-20. Certified VW508.00/509.00. Has over 2k Ca and over 200 Na. Be careful using if you have cardiac problems.

 

[buster]

I hate to inject VRP into the discussion, but it's probably one of the only breakthrough technologies that have come along since I've joined this site. That was discovered by a Phd in a lab who created that molecule that by surprise was able to clean piston deposits. So it went from Phd lab to Engineering engine lab to be tested. That lab is likely run by a Phd (Dr. Warholic) and others without Phd's doing the testing/engine tear downs etc.

 

[DirectRejection]

When he was talking about MoDTC and said something to the effect of interesting things starts happening when the zinc, phosphorus, and molybdenum levels are about the same, it reminded me of the thread with three VOAs from HPL Premium Plus PCMO. Note: The reason the molybdenum level is higher from SpeeDiagnostix is because they use RDC vs ICP testing methods, which can see larger particles of molybdenum.

View attachment 299190

Lake has talked about the dosage and the form of Moly being crucial as to its deleterious effects on Diamond Like Carbon Coatings. This is something I want to learn a lot more about.

 

[rstcso]

Lake has talked about the dosage and the form of Moly being crucial as to its deleterious effects on Diamond Like Carbon Coatings. This is something I want to learn a lot more about.

I wouldn't hesitate to send him an email and ask. For him, it'd be like asking a Grandma "How are your grandkids doing?". Just sit back and you'll learn more than you ever wanted to know.

Let him know you'd like to post his response on BITOG. He's never had a problem with my asking if I can quote him (all one or two times).

 

[Glenda W.]

Well by all intents given his past work history, seems to be sufficient for him to do the work he does.

I work in Aerospace and we have similar people like LSJr and they are called "Engineering Technicians". They basically can do 90% of what an actual degree engineer can with usually either just an associates, trade tech degree, work experience or a combination of the sort. Most times they are working under already established standard and published methods and procedures. They do the actual hands on of touching and formulating the product where most Engineers really do not like to delve in and stay with the design and research aspect.

Engineering techs in many settings unless people know otherwise would be considered pretty much functional equals in most industry settings to a degree engineers. There is still that 10% that does have a need to come under a degree engineer review.

Degree holding people seem to get ruffled when their work scope can most times be done by actual SME's just as effectively.

Well said. IMO this sums up Lakes situation.

I think calling oneself a Tribologist may be getting thrown around loosely.

 

[fen1]

Formulating lubricants is a methodology. Briefly, the process is to establish goals (technical, marketing, & financial targets); define tests that confirm goals and support claims; identify potential ingredient types that affect tests (base oils and additives); obtain samples of identified ingredients based on supplier recommendations; create testing matrices; conduct tests and evaluate results against goal requirements; repeat as necessary.

I designed esters and formulated high performance lubricants such as jet engine oils (including the one most used by the US Military for the last 25 years) and various successful synthetic industrial and automotive oils, and have four patents, all with a high school degree and no certifications. Yes I had access to a good lubricants laboratory and quality chemists for consultation as needed, but one can initiate, design, direct, and manage the process without a formal higher education.

The formulation process is more logic than knowledge. You gain knowledge from experience as you go.

I surely like your style. I'd say " keep up the good work", but I understand you're retired.

 

[Furious]

What is LSJr actually doing that is beyond the scope of his certifications and requires someone with a actual engineering degree?

He is doing nothing beyond the scope of his certification.

What is happening here is a bunch of grown men getting their ego fix of the day trying to act like they know it all, plain and simple.

 

[kschachn]

He is doing nothing beyond the scope of his certification.

What is happening here is a bunch of grown men getting their ego fix of the day trying to act like they know it all, plain and simple.

I don't know about you, but the rest of us are having a discussion about an Internet influencer/YouTube personality that is making claims about his abilities, such as formulating motor oils.

We're not the ones making grumpy accusations without merit.

 

[Foxtrot08]

I don't know about you, but the rest of us are having a discussion about an Internet influencer/YouTube personality that is making claims about his abilities, such as formulating motor oils.

We're not the ones making grumpy accusations without merit.

Basic formulation and blending is part of the CLS exam.

 

[kschachn]

Basic formulation and blending is part of the CLS exam.

Emphasis on “basic”. I got basic metal forming education in the 80-hour course I took. I also got a basic education in chemistry with my minor. Am I a chemist?

So for $625 I too can become qualified to formulate and blend motor oils. Awesome.

 

[kschachn]

Basic formulation and blending is part of the CLS exam.

Actually if you look at the webiste it says this. I don't see formulation and blending.

Industry Targets for CLS ​

• Evaluates and selects lubricants to use.
• Conducts lubricant surveys.
• Trains lubricators and assembles work lists.
• Develops quality assurance and used lubricant analysis programs.
• Troubleshoots and problem solves lubrication issues.
• Maintains records of all application, as well as waste collection or disposal.

 

[Foxtrot08]

Emphasis on “basic”. I got basic metal forming education in the 80-hour course I took too. I also got a basic education in chemistry with my minor. Am I a chemist?

Again, blending isn’t developing something “new” - it’s like baking a cake or cookies.

He is not developing a new type of flower for the recipe. He’s using existing ingredients, and existing tests to determine what properties the end product produces.

Do you need a chemistry degree to be a baker? Or a Chem-E?

The CLS test shows that you have proficient knowledge and understanding of how blending and formulations work. Chemistry may help, same with chemical engineering. However, that again, is more on developing the components and tests. Not just mixing and testing.