Thank you mr thompson
Logic behind using 0W30 in a 0W20 vehicle
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Originally Posted By: daves87rs
The only issue I have with the 0w30 is the noise-it's going to drive me nuts!
Another M1 noise complaint.
The only issue I have with the 0w30 is the noise-it's going to drive me nuts!
Another M1 noise complaint.
Originally Posted By: userfriendly
I thought 0W30 was a step thinner in base oil viscosity than 0W20.
If so, 5W20 would be the next thicker oil, and 10W30 the next thicker after 5W20.
Synthetic or synthetic blend 10W30, might be your best next thicker oil.
Viscosity grades are not optional, they are mandatory. If it tests to Grade30, it must be labelled Grade30.
xxW- ratings are only valid at cold temperatures, far below room temperature, let alone engine operating temperature.
0W-20, 5W-20 and 20W-20 are all within Grade20 at room temperature and at engine operating temperatures (as are 0W-30, 10w30, etc in respect to Grade30). Although there is room for variation, it is narrow and there is no reasonable reason to expect any one would be the "thinnest" or the "thickest" in comparison to any other based on the information the Grade alone tells you.
Also, I know of no 0W-xx oils that are not synthetic, therefore the viscosity of the base stock cannot be assumed.
I thought 0W30 was a step thinner in base oil viscosity than 0W20.
If so, 5W20 would be the next thicker oil, and 10W30 the next thicker after 5W20.
Synthetic or synthetic blend 10W30, might be your best next thicker oil.
Viscosity grades are not optional, they are mandatory. If it tests to Grade30, it must be labelled Grade30.
xxW- ratings are only valid at cold temperatures, far below room temperature, let alone engine operating temperature.
0W-20, 5W-20 and 20W-20 are all within Grade20 at room temperature and at engine operating temperatures (as are 0W-30, 10w30, etc in respect to Grade30). Although there is room for variation, it is narrow and there is no reasonable reason to expect any one would be the "thinnest" or the "thickest" in comparison to any other based on the information the Grade alone tells you.
Also, I know of no 0W-xx oils that are not synthetic, therefore the viscosity of the base stock cannot be assumed.
You cans afely run 0w30 or 5w30 in your subie no problem , 0W-20 is the spec exclusively to meet fuel economy regulations.
0w-20 is pretty thin for a motor. For a sewing machine, ok. Dinosaur wizz.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: CT8
I can't see using a 20wt unless you are in the Arctic.
Exactly.
+1
20W is good for the * companies, since they are expensive and consumed much more than thicker grades.
Originally Posted By: CT8
I can't see using a 20wt unless you are in the Arctic.
Exactly.
+1
20W is good for the * companies, since they are expensive and consumed much more than thicker grades.
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You're correct in stating that any oil of any given grade falls within the same kinematic viscosity range, but this only goes so far.
Consider M1 AFE 0w30 vs an A3/B4 0W-30. Both fall within the same viscosity range, but one is a much thicker oil at operating temperature than the grade might lead one to think. The difference is in HTHS viscosity.
The same is true of the old 20W-20 grade oils vs modern XW-20s. The 20W-20 is listed as suitable for use at any ambient temperature above 20F in seventies GM OMs (I use this example just because I happen to have one of these handy) while 5W-20 was recommended for use only below 20F and there was a specific warning not to use this grade for sustained high speed driving.
So, while the kinematic viscosities of these two grades did fall within the same range, one has much higher HTHS viscosity than the other, making it suited to uses the thinner oil isn't.
Consider M1 AFE 0w30 vs an A3/B4 0W-30. Both fall within the same viscosity range, but one is a much thicker oil at operating temperature than the grade might lead one to think. The difference is in HTHS viscosity.
The same is true of the old 20W-20 grade oils vs modern XW-20s. The 20W-20 is listed as suitable for use at any ambient temperature above 20F in seventies GM OMs (I use this example just because I happen to have one of these handy) while 5W-20 was recommended for use only below 20F and there was a specific warning not to use this grade for sustained high speed driving.
So, while the kinematic viscosities of these two grades did fall within the same range, one has much higher HTHS viscosity than the other, making it suited to uses the thinner oil isn't.
Shocked at all the nonsense being spouted in this thread. Baseless nonsense. What is the purpose in using a different oil weight? Unless trying to solve a problem that doesnt exist yet, I would use 0w20. Ive never had an issue. Everyone always quotes because of gas mileage..funny how between 5w30 and 0w20..I notice zero difference in mpg..
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Shocked at all the nonsense being spouted in this thread. Baseless nonsense. What is the purpose in using a different oil weight? Unless trying to solve a problem that doesnt exist yet, I would use 0w20. Ive never had an issue. Everyone always quotes because of gas mileage..funny how between 5w30 and 0w20..I notice zero difference in mpg..
EOM claims 1.5% between them.
Shocked at all the nonsense being spouted in this thread. Baseless nonsense. What is the purpose in using a different oil weight? Unless trying to solve a problem that doesnt exist yet, I would use 0w20. Ive never had an issue. Everyone always quotes because of gas mileage..funny how between 5w30 and 0w20..I notice zero difference in mpg..
EOM claims 1.5% between them.
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If you can't measure something you can't improve it.
What is always hard to input is the variables like driving style.
One can see this in the "Euro" offerings for hard driven sedans - and on the other side you can surely see what some call Toyota "appliances" will achieve long runs on 0W20.
What is always hard to input is the variables like driving style.
One can see this in the "Euro" offerings for hard driven sedans - and on the other side you can surely see what some call Toyota "appliances" will achieve long runs on 0W20.
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Shocked at all the nonsense being spouted in this thread. Baseless nonsense. What is the purpose in using a different oil weight? Unless trying to solve a problem that doesnt exist yet, I would use 0w20. Ive never had an issue. Everyone always quotes because of gas mileage..funny how between 5w30 and 0w20..I notice zero difference in mpg..
It is not about YOU it is about the CAFE.
Shocked at all the nonsense being spouted in this thread. Baseless nonsense. What is the purpose in using a different oil weight? Unless trying to solve a problem that doesnt exist yet, I would use 0w20. Ive never had an issue. Everyone always quotes because of gas mileage..funny how between 5w30 and 0w20..I notice zero difference in mpg..
It is not about YOU it is about the CAFE.
If you have a warranty, read the terms as you might well need to use the OEM spec oil. If not, then use the oil finder or oil guide page of your favourite major brand engine oil company to see what they list as their recommended oil, BUT use the UK or German version of the web site for a non CAFE biased opinion.
Very few vehicles in the EU use 0w20 oils and most that do are petrol hybrids that operate at fairly constant RPM.
0w20 is a real good grade range for some petrol cars up North in winter, BUT if your engine tends to contaminate its oil with fuel, or you live in a hot desert and tow a heavy trailer, they can be bad news in long term wear rates.
The OEM solution to that thin oil issue is to use an OCI that is often half that of the same engine in the EU, as that tends to result in a higher average viscosity. Some OEM specs oils also have higher levels of Moly to help offset the thin oil risks, although anti friction additives do not always produce lower wear rates IF you use a group 4 full synthetic.
Very few vehicles in the EU use 0w20 oils and most that do are petrol hybrids that operate at fairly constant RPM.
0w20 is a real good grade range for some petrol cars up North in winter, BUT if your engine tends to contaminate its oil with fuel, or you live in a hot desert and tow a heavy trailer, they can be bad news in long term wear rates.
The OEM solution to that thin oil issue is to use an OCI that is often half that of the same engine in the EU, as that tends to result in a higher average viscosity. Some OEM specs oils also have higher levels of Moly to help offset the thin oil risks, although anti friction additives do not always produce lower wear rates IF you use a group 4 full synthetic.
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i've run MC 5w-20 in my ford for years. what's the issue? besides overthinking a non-issue, that is. run a 5w-20 if it makes you feel any better. or even a 5w30.
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Originally Posted By: dblshock
My Honda spec's 0/20 so I ran the FF like 3500mi. and put in 5/30, it will never see 0/20, too many oil burning motors out there on x/20.
Originally Posted By: NibbanaBanana
0w-20 is pretty thin for a motor. For a sewing machine, ok. Dinosaur wizz.
It's okay, your 5w30 shears down to a 20W anyways unless you change it every 3,000 miles...
And go ahead and show all of the threads about cars on 0W/5W-20 burning excessively in the makes they've been used in for going on 20 years now, and I'll show you the manufacturers using the heaviest weights of oil in North America have some of the highest engine failure rates...
As for the OP, no it won't make a bit of difference and Subaru has traditionally been quite liberal on the multiple weights of oil they list as permissible. But there's no reason not to use 0W-20 going into winter...
My Honda spec's 0/20 so I ran the FF like 3500mi. and put in 5/30, it will never see 0/20, too many oil burning motors out there on x/20.
Originally Posted By: NibbanaBanana
0w-20 is pretty thin for a motor. For a sewing machine, ok. Dinosaur wizz.
It's okay, your 5w30 shears down to a 20W anyways unless you change it every 3,000 miles...
And go ahead and show all of the threads about cars on 0W/5W-20 burning excessively in the makes they've been used in for going on 20 years now, and I'll show you the manufacturers using the heaviest weights of oil in North America have some of the highest engine failure rates...
As for the OP, no it won't make a bit of difference and Subaru has traditionally been quite liberal on the multiple weights of oil they list as permissible. But there's no reason not to use 0W-20 going into winter...
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Shocked at all the nonsense being spouted in this thread. Baseless nonsense. What is the purpose in using a different oil weight? Unless trying to solve a problem that doesnt exist yet, I would use 0w20. Ive never had an issue. Everyone always quotes because of gas mileage..funny how between 5w30 and 0w20..I notice zero difference in mpg..
It is not about YOU it is about the CAFE.
What a tired, lame argument. How about 70% to 90% or wear occurs at start up?
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Shocked at all the nonsense being spouted in this thread. Baseless nonsense. What is the purpose in using a different oil weight? Unless trying to solve a problem that doesnt exist yet, I would use 0w20. Ive never had an issue. Everyone always quotes because of gas mileage..funny how between 5w30 and 0w20..I notice zero difference in mpg..
It is not about YOU it is about the CAFE.
What a tired, lame argument. How about 70% to 90% or wear occurs at start up?
Could be true if you short trip a lot in a real cold country. 50% is a more realistic figure for an average car.
Oddly enough I would think about using an 0 or 5w20 in winter in my old TDI that is specced for an Xw30 or 40, BUT I sure would beef up the anti wear, extreme pressure and anti friction additives with a full can of German made Ceratec. No way I would use it after the winter, or do an extended OCI!
Oddly enough I would think about using an 0 or 5w20 in winter in my old TDI that is specced for an Xw30 or 40, BUT I sure would beef up the anti wear, extreme pressure and anti friction additives with a full can of German made Ceratec. No way I would use it after the winter, or do an extended OCI!
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Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Shocked at all the nonsense being spouted in this thread. Baseless nonsense. What is the purpose in using a different oil weight? Unless trying to solve a problem that doesnt exist yet, I would use 0w20. Ive never had an issue. Everyone always quotes because of gas mileage..funny how between 5w30 and 0w20..I notice zero difference in mpg..
It is not about YOU it is about the CAFE.
What a tired, lame argument. How about 70% to 90% or wear occurs at start up?
How about You really don't understand the subject do you?
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Shocked at all the nonsense being spouted in this thread. Baseless nonsense. What is the purpose in using a different oil weight? Unless trying to solve a problem that doesnt exist yet, I would use 0w20. Ive never had an issue. Everyone always quotes because of gas mileage..funny how between 5w30 and 0w20..I notice zero difference in mpg..
It is not about YOU it is about the CAFE.
What a tired, lame argument. How about 70% to 90% or wear occurs at start up?
How about You really don't understand the subject do you?
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Shocked at all the nonsense being spouted in this thread. Baseless nonsense. What is the purpose in using a different oil weight? Unless trying to solve a problem that doesnt exist yet, I would use 0w20. Ive never had an issue. Everyone always quotes because of gas mileage..funny how between 5w30 and 0w20..I notice zero difference in mpg..
It is not about YOU it is about the CAFE.
What a tired, lame argument. How about 70% to 90% or wear occurs at start up?
You really don't understand the subject do you?
Lets say its done for CAFE..for 1.5% difference..which is laughable..show me where all the engine failures are or all the issues with 0w20.. seems to me the CAFE reasoning is spouted without there being any proof that 0w20 is "too thin".
And yes I am currently using 0w40 in my car right now because I got it on sale and my car is far out of warranty coverage but I use 0w20 too without any issue. I also didnt use 0w40 to solve any issues I had with 0w20..to be honest 0w20 kept my engine quieter..haha..lol
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Shocked at all the nonsense being spouted in this thread. Baseless nonsense. What is the purpose in using a different oil weight? Unless trying to solve a problem that doesnt exist yet, I would use 0w20. Ive never had an issue. Everyone always quotes because of gas mileage..funny how between 5w30 and 0w20..I notice zero difference in mpg..
It is not about YOU it is about the CAFE.
What a tired, lame argument. How about 70% to 90% or wear occurs at start up?
You really don't understand the subject do you?
Lets say its done for CAFE..for 1.5% difference..which is laughable..show me where all the engine failures are or all the issues with 0w20.. seems to me the CAFE reasoning is spouted without there being any proof that 0w20 is "too thin".
And yes I am currently using 0w40 in my car right now because I got it on sale and my car is far out of warranty coverage but I use 0w20 too without any issue. I also didnt use 0w40 to solve any issues I had with 0w20..to be honest 0w20 kept my engine quieter..haha..lol
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