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Sorry. I'm just one of those obsessive jerks that has to redundantly state my counter point. I never could let a good debate rest.
Legal Question
- Thread starter Carbonics
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Simply don't shop at these establishments that want to check receipts, ask for your phone number, zip code etc.. I know.. I just wiped out 50% of the big corporate stores that sell the highly prized Chinese goods.
I personally hate the big W. -- ever been in one on Friday? And why people join these club stores is beyond me. Almost every club store I've seen checks your receipt, plus you have to pay for a membership-- something seems backwards here. Best Buy asked for my home phone when paying cash one time, I told them sorry.
Sometimes it's worth it to pay a little extra or drive a couple more miles to someplace worth shopping.
I personally hate the big W. -- ever been in one on Friday? And why people join these club stores is beyond me. Almost every club store I've seen checks your receipt, plus you have to pay for a membership-- something seems backwards here. Best Buy asked for my home phone when paying cash one time, I told them sorry.
Sometimes it's worth it to pay a little extra or drive a couple more miles to someplace worth shopping.
I've no problem with checking bags and receipts..as long as the sign is there on the way in, NOT the way out.
Legally, down here, if you enter an establishment and there is a sign stating that you are expected to present bags for inspection as you exit, then you are in Contract with the establishment to present your bags on exit.
If they wish to check your bags on exit, and there's no sign at the entrance, then you have no obligation to present anything, even if requested.
Anyway, that's got nothing to do with the case presented here.
They got physical first.
Anyone think that the greeter may have been trying to better his compensatable position ?
Legally, down here, if you enter an establishment and there is a sign stating that you are expected to present bags for inspection as you exit, then you are in Contract with the establishment to present your bags on exit.
If they wish to check your bags on exit, and there's no sign at the entrance, then you have no obligation to present anything, even if requested.
Anyway, that's got nothing to do with the case presented here.
They got physical first.
Anyone think that the greeter may have been trying to better his compensatable position ?
The prosecuter offered you a plea bargain and you turned him down ?, expect to get the book thrown at you.
The legal issue is you assaulted someone with excessive force and probably contributed to his back problem. It is the victim's legal right to press charges, and it is Wal-Mart's obligation to collect what is spent for medical expensives.
I don't see the greeter touching you, I see him leaning towards you like he was hard of hearing, and he looks kind of frail. Your facial expression appears that you enjoyed the incident. I see you showed the receipt to "Tiny".
I think you are a bully and a violent prone person. It's sad that you still behave like an idiot at 53, and expose your wife to financial liability. Do you yell and push your adopted kids around ? Do you yell at your wife and beat her too?
Little baby can't communicate effectivly, so he resorts to violence.
It's too bad you didn't hit the victim in the head, you would be serving a life sentence in prison.
After viewing that video, if I was a juror, I would have no problem finding you guilty.
My prediction is you will be found guilty, sentenced to 7 years, serve 3, and you will have to pay the $22,000 medical claim.
It doesn't matter what you think, if you were thinking at the time, you would not be in court.
If I was to rationalize like you do, I would say, "Oh his wife is a nurse, she makes plenty of money, they can afford to pay the claim. Why should a poor little person who has to work at Wal-Mart as a greeter be more miserable than he already is when it isn't his fault ?"
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
There are plenty of "Tinys" in prison, I am sure they will admire you in a special way, and you will serve them in a useful way.
The legal issue is you assaulted someone with excessive force and probably contributed to his back problem. It is the victim's legal right to press charges, and it is Wal-Mart's obligation to collect what is spent for medical expensives.
I don't see the greeter touching you, I see him leaning towards you like he was hard of hearing, and he looks kind of frail. Your facial expression appears that you enjoyed the incident. I see you showed the receipt to "Tiny".
I think you are a bully and a violent prone person. It's sad that you still behave like an idiot at 53, and expose your wife to financial liability. Do you yell and push your adopted kids around ? Do you yell at your wife and beat her too?
Little baby can't communicate effectivly, so he resorts to violence.
It's too bad you didn't hit the victim in the head, you would be serving a life sentence in prison.
After viewing that video, if I was a juror, I would have no problem finding you guilty.
My prediction is you will be found guilty, sentenced to 7 years, serve 3, and you will have to pay the $22,000 medical claim.
It doesn't matter what you think, if you were thinking at the time, you would not be in court.
If I was to rationalize like you do, I would say, "Oh his wife is a nurse, she makes plenty of money, they can afford to pay the claim. Why should a poor little person who has to work at Wal-Mart as a greeter be more miserable than he already is when it isn't his fault ?"
If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
There are plenty of "Tinys" in prison, I am sure they will admire you in a special way, and you will serve them in a useful way.
Quote:
Al ..I'mIs there no principle worth anything anymore
Do we just move over for the rest of eternity as the conditions degrade? This wasn't about showing a receipt ..legally speaking. It was about being pushed for failure to do so and ones rights when assaulted by another.
Couple of issues Gary. Getting into a shoving match?? What's up with that? Are there not other methods to handle this vs the Cave Man response? Press charges and shop at Target. Put in a lawsuit.
People have been worried about the sky falling in areas of of Gun control, Government Spying, and the Government taking rights away. Believe me I have been aware of this since I was a freshman in College. And at that time I bought into it. Thats 43 years ago.
Fast forward (43 years)..People are still worrying about the sky falling. And since then..there is more concealed carry available by a wide margin). No one that I know has been dragged out of his house in the middle of the night by the "Government". People (and the bad guys) have so many rights that its getting hard to arrest and convict criminals/terrorists bc there might by a .0001% chance that their Civil Rights are being taken away.
Unfortunately if a society is going to function there must be benefit vs risk. We are not taking enough risk (possible encroachment of personal freedoms) to put terrorists away, keep criminals off of the street and send illegals back where they belong. Call me stupid but we are getting to the point where we are losing touch with reality. Unlimited Freedom = Anarchy.
Every time we allow a criminal to go free we lose our rights when he kills one of us a second or third time. I'll take my chances with the government instead of terrorists and criminals. These bad guys don't get what they deserve bc the Government has lost its ability (bc of politically correct misguidance) to do what is necessary. So I am now forced to carry concealed bc the Government can't/won't protect me. But its O.K. , I don't depend on the Government to do anything good for me anyway.
" People (and the bad guys) have so many rights that its getting hard to arrest and convict criminals/terrorists bc there might by a .0001% chance that their Civil Rights are being taken away."
And yet the US has a larger percentage of it's population incarcerated than any other country.
(With the possible exception of Rwanda.)
And yet the US has a larger percentage of it's population incarcerated than any other country.
(With the possible exception of Rwanda.)
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Well, I guess he could have played the "flagrant foul" act. I just don't see the requirement of it.
It is the common unjust view in the classic just world syndrome. You still insist that he did something wrong. In hind sight, he may have chosen another action (the aforementioned flagrant foul act) ..but that would have been disingenuous and borderline fraud. He would still be viewed as doing something wrong.
As another has mentioned, we have are lives altered with all kinds of problems. We lock doors and take the keys out of our cars ..stuff like that. We cannot prevent these actions from others ..or their attempts anyway ...hence we take sensible proactive measures to inhibit them.
This is different than what you do when someone breaks in your house, or see them trying to jack your car. How does your view change then?
How do you feel when a stranger puts their hands on you?
Now personally, being bigger than Tiny, most don't go that route with me ...so I have usually had the advantage of "taking the higher moral ground" in many things simply because those who are disposed to aggressive behavior hesitate to be their normal selves. It's a play on "keeping honest people honest" ..but in the sense that it "keeps civilized people civil". Not everyone has that option and no one is obligated to adopt a passive posture in the midst of aggression no matter how it appears to tab up on the hassle index balance sheet.
And of course they (people in jail) are all innocent? So your thought is that its the Government's fault? You think that 12 jurors all needing to render a non-guilty verdict is not enough. Would you like 20 jurors? And the fact that all they have to affirm is the lower level of proof. ("Not guilty") vs "innocent" isn't good enough? You think that O.J. Simpson was not guilty? Oh wait..our justice system did turn him free.
I know, I know you would rather release 100,000 criminals into society to kill and maim than convict one questionable individual. Perhaps we have more peeps in jails bc our jails are air conditioned, 3 squares/day, TV, exercise, , etc. Maybe if we had ball and chain gangs there would be less incentive to commit a crime and go to jail.
I suppose those wanting more of a perfect system long to live in Iran, China, Mexico, etc.
Well, Al, what would be your explanation? This higher rate of incarceration has not resulted in lower crime rates. Let me guess, you explain the difference in crime rates and prison populations between us and the rest of the world by what? Maybe Americans are more prone to be criminals? Illegal aliens committing all the crime?
There are plenty of people in prison who do belong there, but certainly not all of them.
My point in mentioning this, in the first place(which you apparently missed) was in response to your ridiculous statement that it's hard to arrest and convict criminals/terrorists...etc.
Evidently, it's not hard to arrest or convict anybody.
There are plenty of people in prison who do belong there, but certainly not all of them.
My point in mentioning this, in the first place(which you apparently missed) was in response to your ridiculous statement that it's hard to arrest and convict criminals/terrorists...etc.
Evidently, it's not hard to arrest or convict anybody.
So your Hypothesis is that we as a nation just arrest, convict, and incarcerate more people? Why is that Mark? The fact that our murder rate is many times higher than other countries has no bearing on how many are incarcerated for murder? Has the Government killed many of these people and therefore there should be fewer murders incarcerated? Very interesting..you might be on to something. Call Art Bell.
I'm done. Don't want to get the thread closed.
There is a sickness to the attitude of people like Bernard. I am amazed that he thinks he can see enjoyment in my face in that quality of video. Tell the truth Bernard, what is your connection to the Lewis County Prosecutor's office? Or are you with Walmart? Its one or the other.
Your diatribe against me is pretty personal isn't it? what is that about? What do you think you know about my wife and children? Don't you bother to observe how they act toward me when we are all at court?
This is one of the clearest cases of self defense you are ever going to come across. From every angle the two Walmart employees were in the wrong from the first encounter. They stopped me illegally, they kept me illegally, they both attacked me illegally and then they lied about the incident to the police. Oddly, given what everyone knows about Walmart security, that is the only video of the incident, and even it has been chopped down to far less than a minute. If the greeter only leaned toward me because he is hard of hearing, why do you suppose none of those other views were produced? Wouldn't they be the ones that would show the greeter never touched me?
Its okay, post your lies here, tell them everywhere, its the jury in court that gets to actually make the decision after viewing the evidence, listening to the testimony and proper instruction on the law. Given that, I would be foolish in the extreme to consider a plea bargain.
Don
Your diatribe against me is pretty personal isn't it? what is that about? What do you think you know about my wife and children? Don't you bother to observe how they act toward me when we are all at court?
This is one of the clearest cases of self defense you are ever going to come across. From every angle the two Walmart employees were in the wrong from the first encounter. They stopped me illegally, they kept me illegally, they both attacked me illegally and then they lied about the incident to the police. Oddly, given what everyone knows about Walmart security, that is the only video of the incident, and even it has been chopped down to far less than a minute. If the greeter only leaned toward me because he is hard of hearing, why do you suppose none of those other views were produced? Wouldn't they be the ones that would show the greeter never touched me?
Its okay, post your lies here, tell them everywhere, its the jury in court that gets to actually make the decision after viewing the evidence, listening to the testimony and proper instruction on the law. Given that, I would be foolish in the extreme to consider a plea bargain.
Don
Don,
once you win this case, i hope like crazy you file suit against them.
Rob
once you win this case, i hope like crazy you file suit against them.
Rob
This is Bernard:
Bernard Feltzer 1/24/07 4:48 pm
You guys are very patient with your females. I went out on a date with a girl many years ago, every thing was going ok till the subject of car upkeep was brought up. I was explaining how important it was to change oil, when she said, "Why should I change the oil, I'll just have you buy me a new car every year."
I stopped talking, pulled into a gas station, got out of van, walked over and opened her door, I said, "Get Out!"
She said she didn't need any thing at the store.
I said a little firmer, "Get OUT!"
She got out, I slammed the door, walked around the van, got in and left. Never spoke to her again. She did call up a week later, I hung up the phone.
Or this from 9/09/06
I think it is whorable that all woman think about is clothes, wine, and commitments. Woman should not be allowed to repair cars, or even drive them.
But then, from 7/05/06, you can see he comes from a gentle family:
When my Dad bought my first car, it wasn't mine, it was his. I told him I wasn't driving a used car, who knew where it has been and what headaches it had, he bought me a new car. The catch was if I did any thing to the car, I had better be dead in an auto accident, cause living and dealing with him would be worse than death.
He treats women well 5/29/06
Another reason women should not be allowed to drive in USA.
Men in Mideastern countries are wiser, they do not permit women to drive, it saves resources in many areas, that is why their gasoline price is 33 cents per gallon.
From 5/21/06, anything Walmart does is okay:
As a proud stock owner of Wal-Mart, I am pleased management has found a way to reduce global pollution and increase profits by introducing "pre-conditioned" motor oil.
And racist on 5/16/06 (not to mention a little childish)
I use to shake the bottles of oil at Wal-Mart when some one was around, I would say "It's gonna blow!" I quit doing that after a big black security guard came up to me and asked, "Is you all right?" (Or see his comments about feeding pork to Arahs)
yep, a gentle man, 1/16/06
Now that I think about it, I should have killed that cat.
Bernard Feltzer 1/24/07 4:48 pm
You guys are very patient with your females. I went out on a date with a girl many years ago, every thing was going ok till the subject of car upkeep was brought up. I was explaining how important it was to change oil, when she said, "Why should I change the oil, I'll just have you buy me a new car every year."
I stopped talking, pulled into a gas station, got out of van, walked over and opened her door, I said, "Get Out!"
She said she didn't need any thing at the store.
I said a little firmer, "Get OUT!"
She got out, I slammed the door, walked around the van, got in and left. Never spoke to her again. She did call up a week later, I hung up the phone.
Or this from 9/09/06
I think it is whorable that all woman think about is clothes, wine, and commitments. Woman should not be allowed to repair cars, or even drive them.
But then, from 7/05/06, you can see he comes from a gentle family:
When my Dad bought my first car, it wasn't mine, it was his. I told him I wasn't driving a used car, who knew where it has been and what headaches it had, he bought me a new car. The catch was if I did any thing to the car, I had better be dead in an auto accident, cause living and dealing with him would be worse than death.
He treats women well 5/29/06
Another reason women should not be allowed to drive in USA.
Men in Mideastern countries are wiser, they do not permit women to drive, it saves resources in many areas, that is why their gasoline price is 33 cents per gallon.
From 5/21/06, anything Walmart does is okay:
As a proud stock owner of Wal-Mart, I am pleased management has found a way to reduce global pollution and increase profits by introducing "pre-conditioned" motor oil.
And racist on 5/16/06 (not to mention a little childish)
I use to shake the bottles of oil at Wal-Mart when some one was around, I would say "It's gonna blow!" I quit doing that after a big black security guard came up to me and asked, "Is you all right?" (Or see his comments about feeding pork to Arahs)
yep, a gentle man, 1/16/06
Now that I think about it, I should have killed that cat.
Quote:
So your Hypothesis is that we as a nation just arrest, convict, and incarcerate more people? Why is that Mark? The fact that our murder rate is many times higher than other countries has no bearing on how many are incarcerated for murder? Has the Government killed many of these people and therefore there should be fewer murders incarcerated? Very interesting..you might be on to something. Call Art Bell.
I'm done. Don't want to get the thread closed.
Al, WTH are you on about? I'm not saying what's right or wrong with our system, I just disputed what you said about it being very difficult to arrest and convict people. The fact is the US leads the world in putting it's citizens in the slammer. This would seem to indicate that it's not very hard at all to catch, arrest, and convict people in this country.
That's all I'm saying.
Should someone like Don spend time in prison over a scuffle in Wal-Mart? One that he didn't start?
Don, Bernard's post is one of the sorriest things I've seen in a long time. No way can you see a facial expression on that video. His post definitely seems to have something personal against you. He is the first BITOG user I have blocked "Ignored" permanently. Such ____ like his do not belong on BITOG and are borderline reportable for banning in my opinion.
Keep it up Don - we're all rooting.
Keep it up Don - we're all rooting.
The psychological term for what Bernard is doing is projection. Projection is a defense mechanism in which one attributes to others one’s own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts or/and emotions. As you can see from the summary of Bernard's posts, he has some serious issues.
Interestingly, I think the same probably applies to the Lewis County Prosecutor, Michael Golden. He was arrested for felony eluding and I think drunk driving when he was younger. He got the felony eluding plea bargained down and, other than his divorce, his record appears to be clean since then. But, having engaged in felonious activity himself, I think he tends to see all others through that lens.
I don't know much about the deputy prosecutor, Christopher Baum, other than that a lawyer rating site rates him as mediocre. I suspect there is more.
Don
Interestingly, I think the same probably applies to the Lewis County Prosecutor, Michael Golden. He was arrested for felony eluding and I think drunk driving when he was younger. He got the felony eluding plea bargained down and, other than his divorce, his record appears to be clean since then. But, having engaged in felonious activity himself, I think he tends to see all others through that lens.
I don't know much about the deputy prosecutor, Christopher Baum, other than that a lawyer rating site rates him as mediocre. I suspect there is more.
Don
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I don't hold officials to any higher standard than I do myself. That is, they're all human and are still filled with more flaws than a beetle trap is with bugs. Now this surely is part of my insistence upon the unconventional view that I seem to have for all things...but I'll only offer that in my "expecting all humans to be human" ..that I also require them to judge others as they would judge themselves...with all of the aforementioned flaws that they surely have. Let he who hath not sinned ..cast the first stone sorta thing. Naturally, most who stand in judgment, kinda leave that part of of the equation
Trying to cloud facts with ____ is not going to change any thing in court.
The prosecuter offered you a plea bargain in court, so later when you are found guilty of a felony, you can't say that he never offered you a plea bargain.
I read about many cases similiar to yours, the last one is now serving 30 years.
The prosecuter offered you a plea bargain in court, so later when you are found guilty of a felony, you can't say that he never offered you a plea bargain.
I read about many cases similiar to yours, the last one is now serving 30 years.
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I wonder if you would take a plea bargain in Deliverance, Bernard. You get to play Ned Beatey (cue music
).
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