Latest move by Quebec

[OVERKILL]

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/story/2013/08/25/marois-charter-quebec-values.html

Obviously we can't discuss the political nature of this, or the religious one, which means that talking about it is going to be awkward, but I am still interested to hear what our American friends (and those from abroad) think of this.

Quote:
Marois said the charter will help bring Quebec together, much like Bill 101, the province's landmark legislation aimed at protecting the French language.

The charter will affirm, once and for all, the equality between men and women, she said, and it will reflect not only "universal" values, but Quebec values as well.

"It will become, I'm certain, a strong uniting element between Quebecers," Marois said Sunday at a gathering of young PQ members in Quebec City. "We're moving forward in the name of all the women, all the men, who chose Quebec for our culture, for our freedom and for our diversity."

Leaked details, published in a media report last week, include a plan to prohibit people like doctors, teachers and public daycare workers from donning turbans, kippas, hijabs and visible crucifixes.

Marois said the charter would be the culmination of a long process that began a half-century ago with the secularization of Quebec's public institutions, such as schools.

She didn't take questions from reporters after her speech.

Past polls have suggested such a charter would be popular in Quebec, but last week's new details drew an angry response from some pundits and minority groups.

 

[TTK]

These types of charters can be popular among the masses. What exists to protect minority rights in Canada and Quebec?

 

[sciphi]

Goes too far, IMO. Unless there is a specific reason why headgear of any type is forbidden at a job, such as machinery that could snag it or letting headgear into sterile/sanitary environments, let them wear their headgear on the job. Happy workers are more productive and cheaper for the government.

 

[Brule]

Freedom from religion is preferable to freedom of religion? That's what it says. Not saying it's wrong, but this is the message.

 

[eljefino]

Quebec is pretty full of itself, but they deftly walk the line between pride and arrogance. Half of me is envious of their high cultural esteem.

 

[Falken]

Well, if we look at how accepting of other religions dominant religions are, I'd say she isn't doing anything wrong.

Québec is a "minority" within the majority of English speaking Canada, and is mired in an Anglophone ocean that is North America.

So, to be fair, they have long played the minority card that minorities play all the time.

I can't say I agree with the spirit behind the move, but I do agree with the effect it will have in keeping the public service religiously neutral.

I don't believe in any gods, monsters, astral beings, or Greek mythology (Greek history I was once corrected).

Now, if everyone around me is being killed in the far far future because a dominant religion ends up with an iron grip on society, that wouldn't make me very happy as I don't like the current selection of gods and demons to worship.

None of them really appeal to me. Not enough that I'd put a veil on my wife anyway.

Let's look at what is going on in Egypt and the Middle East in general right now. This is what religion leads to at some point or another, either in the past, present, or future.

You can't deny that religion has caused more trouble than it is worth.

For this, I applaud Marois' decision.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Brule
Freedom from religion is preferable to freedom of religion? That's what it says. Not saying it's wrong, but this is the message.


Pretty much. They want to hide the face of religion from children in schools, from representing roles in government and other parts of society where people might see that instead of the role the person represents in society.

I think it is interesting. Particularly in a country that has quotas on minority hire in the government.

 

[jrustles]

"Leave people alone", that's my take on it.

No one person can legitimately shape the world according to their own personal views of it, no matter how highly they regard their own world view over their understanding of others'.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/canada/story/2013/08/25/marois-charter-quebec-values.html

Obviously we can't discuss the political nature of this, or the religious one, which means that talking about it is going to be awkward, but I am still interested to hear what our American friends (and those from abroad) think of this.



I'm just reminded of the Cajuns, descendants of French settlers in the Canadian Maritimes, expelled by the British, that settled southern Louisiana and Texas.

In the 1920s, they were forbidden from speaking French. They referred to themselves as Les Francais and English speakers as Les Americains. Took the Cajuns until the 1970s to reclaim their culture and heritage. The cuisine, music, self reliance, and ethnic identity is largely celebrated these days.

Maybe the Quebecois need a tough, self-reliant image and more recognizable cuisine than Poutine (for the record, I love Poutine but what else do you think of when you think of Quebec?...Now think Louisiana. Gumbo, Etouffee, Boudain, Dirty Rice....etc...)

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Now think Louisiana. Gumbo, Etouffee, Boudain, Dirty Rice....etc...)


You just made me HUNGRY!

I think I will whip up some dirty rice & red beans with andouille slices in it for dinner tomorrow!

 

[JHZR2]

Im not a fan of seeing people with full headgear (only eye slits) in places like banks, stores, etc. Im sorry, its not religious or racial or cultural, its hiding your identity.

I cant wear sunglasses, a baseball cap and a hoodie into a public building, bank, etc., why should they.

Thing is, it has to be all or else people will cry foul. Best way to nip that in the bud is to spoil it for everyone. Most anyone wearing a cricifix wil tuck it in their shirt and not think twice. Some of the heavy duty garb from other cultures is harder to hide and more critical to their existence.

SO what this is, really, is an attempt to make the laws equal yet restrictive enough to some groups to get them to move and reduce and monodisperse the population.

 

[BearZDefect]

Originally Posted By: Falken
Let's look at what is going on in Egypt and the Middle East in general right now. This is what religion leads to at some point or another, either in the past, present, or future.

I would rephrase that as: This is what we come to when religion is abused and perverted for personal gain and power.

Originally Posted By: Falken
You can't deny that religion has caused more trouble than it is worth.

To be fair, I think history shows that (for example) Christianity and Islam brought great advances and progress to humankind.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: BearZDefect

To be fair, I think history shows that (for example) Christianity and Islam brought great advances and progress to humankind.


On again, off again.

Sure, Massachusetts had public schools in the 1600's that taught kids to read, mostly entirely with bible lessons.

But then, Wycliffe translated the bible into English in 1400, ticking off the church, which believed they needed a layer of clergy to "interpret" it from Latin for the masses.

So you want to look at who wants to transfer power and control, and to whom. Watch TV where the half news, half commentary shows try to tell you what to think... same stuff keeps coming around.

 

[BearZDefect]

Agreed. But put it in historical context. Positive influences get perverted over time as people find ways to abuse them. You point to a time many centuries after the coming of its founder. By that time people in power at many levels had long abused Chrisitanity for their personal benefit.

But I fear this discussion is against BITOG rules.

 

[andyd]

Are they just aping their cultural mother ship in this? Didn't France make religious head gear illegal?

 

[PandaBear]

I have no problem with people wearing whatever they want as long as they comply with security and safety rules. Which means you do not wear any loose fabric around machines (there was news about a young Pakistani lady getting pulled into a rolling press in a laundry shop in Hong Kong), and you take off whatever you wear for ID check and pat down search when asked by security officials on duty wherever you go.

One more: I prefer people to be non naked around children not old enough to buy adult magazine. It is something that non free spirited San Franciscan like me have problem with.

I'm more concern about how people "enforce" what they believe on others, in both direction (French forcing Muslim to look, dress, and act like white French, and French Muslim forcing the local to accept what is not legal in their new homeland like honor killing or physical punishment on girls losing their virginity before marriage)

 

[KrisZ]

It is taking it a bit far, but I think Quebec is reacting to what's happening in Ontario and other provinces and they want to avoid that.
We can't even find out if our, to be born, children will be a boy or a girl through the ultrasound scan because Muslims and Hindu will simply get an abortion if the first born is to be a girl. So in attempt to not offend one or two small ethnic groups, everybody has to suffer.

Turban wearing Hindi already got BC to exempt them from wearing helmets while riding a motorcycle, but everyone else has to wear it. One guy riding from Vancouver was pulled over and ticketed in Ontario for not wearing a helmet and the guy fraught it in court. Fortunately the judge had some sanity left and held the rider responsible for breaking the law. But they are trying this stuff in every aspect they can persistently.
We simply have few, powerful ethnic groups that take their freedoms too far and want to impose them on everyone without any regard for others.

 

[Propflux01]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
....I'm more concern about how people "enforce" what they believe on others, in both direction (French forcing Muslim to look, dress, and act like white French, and French Muslim forcing the local to accept what is not legal in their new homeland like honor killing or physical punishment on girls losing their virginity before marriage)


My problem on that is this: If your going to any country to live, you should abide by that country's standards, heritage, laws, etc. If you do not like, agree, or accept them, don't move there. I get so tired of those that that expect the world to conform to them rather than them conforming to the mass. As the saying goes, "When in Rome, do as the Romans".

If I were to move to France, I would be expected to learn French. If France accommodates me by subtitling signs and whatnot with my native language, then fine, that is their choice, but I should not expect nor demand it of them.

 

[BearZDefect]

Originally Posted By: Propflux01
If your going to any country to live, you should abide by that country's standards, heritage, laws, etc. If you do not like, agree, or accept them, don't move there. ...

This is my response when people imigrate to the USA then condemn this place or people for whatever reason. If you don't like it, you are free to leave. If you feel you can constructively improve it, then make the effort. There is always room for improvement.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Quebec is pretty full of itself, but they deftly walk the line between pride and arrogance. Half of me is envious of their high cultural esteem.


Some truth to it. However, we visited Quebec City 2 years ago and it was great. One of the nicest cities I've ever been too. Clean as can be and the people were very nice.