Latest info on ExxonMobil synthetic base stocks

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: irv
As the saying goes, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

I thought the saying was "Fool me once, shame on... shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again."

 

[OilUzer]

I don't get it! are we using ExxonMobil published documents against themselves?

 

[jongies3]

So the engine in my Tacoma is bound to blow up at any second? What does this mean for Amsoil users, a company that buys all their base oils from XOM?

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Originally Posted By: jongies3
So the engine in my Tacoma is bound to blow up at any second? What does this mean for Amsoil users, a company that buys all their base oils from XOM?

 

[1JZ_E46]

Thanks Tom for the bit on esters. I also didn’t realize ZDDP actually laid down a permanent coating on metallic surfaces. FWIW, Motul 300V is almost entirely ester, and it’s a fantastic oil for high performance street and racing applications.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Clearly some time ago, during the API SM days, Mobil 1 was having a problem with Sequence IVA when Castrol reported their test results. This was also verified by many consumer UOA's such as on BITOG that showed very high iron numbers (excessive valvetrain wear). That could have been due to excessive use of esters in their formulations back then.

That is a big leap in more than one area.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: jongies3
So the engine in my Tacoma is bound to blow up at any second? What does this mean for Amsoil users, a company that buys all their base oils from XOM?


No Amsoil does NOT buy ALL their base oils from ExxonMobil. Your posts are almost always wrong when you mention Amsoil.

I am not sure why it is a surprise to anyone that a lubricant, base oil, additive, any molecule will shear given a severe enough application.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Motul 300V is almost entirely ester

Source?

I've only looked at one MSDS recently, for the 5w30. It indicated 25% - 50% hydrotreated oils.

 

[buster]

This is old news. XOM has been pushing AN’s for years. They used to use POE years ago. There are far too many assumptions being made from this brochure. There are many ways to formulate a good oil using numerous different components from different suppliers and manufacturers.

Esters can and are being used in motor oils effectively whether it be in small or high doses. XOM is selling AN’s and is therefore touting their advantages as a result.

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Thanks Tom for the bit on esters. I also didn’t realize ZDDP actually laid down a permanent coating on metallic surfaces.


I don't know about permanent, but tenacious enough to resist depletion from esters once established, as proven in real world applications.

Many components compete for metal surfaces, such a rust inhibitors, corrosion inhibitors, and other polar molecules. It's a question of selecting the right components in the right combinations, doses and ratios to achieve your objective. There is always the potential for chemical interactions, incompatibilities, and solubility issues, and surprises are common, some positive and some negative.

Formulating is a balancing act, which is why we have so many tests.

 

[Bjornviken]

90% of the dealers use mobil 1 on service fill here in finland. Finland have one of the oldest car parks in eu. Mobil 1 is the most trusted oil brand over here. And i havent heard any oil related problems with mobil1, plus you have a clean engine with mobil1.
And i am not fan of any oil brand.

 

[Edis]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Edis
(2) ExxonMobil do not make any such claims in the documents you've provided. They claim that replacing 10% esters with 10% AN in an PAO based engine oil will reduce wear in Sequence IVA from 541 to 147 μm, but this does not mean that esters increase wear in the same test. It is not possible to draw any conclusions about about how esters affect wear from these results since there is no reference oil without esters or AN in their comparison. They do however make several claims about esters increasing lubricity in these documents, which I would interpret as "wear reducing".

In the formulation guide ExxonMobil suggests several fully synthetic engine oil formulations based only on PAO and AN, so your claim that Mobil 1 must include and ester is clearly wrong.

No, my claim is not wrong at all. On the contrary ExxonMobil clearly claims that the esters inhibit the antiwear/extreme-pressure/friction-modifier (AW/EP/FM) additives. They show other base stocks ("base oil" in the picture) as not inhibiting the additives. They claim that this is because the esters adhere to the metal surfaces and prevent the additives from adhering to them. See the following picture from their document.

It's true that they don't have a Sequence IVA wear-test result without the AN (only with PAO), but regardless, their main point is that the esters adhere to the metal surfaces and prevent the AW/EP/FM additives from doing their job.


Again, ExxonMobil does not make any claims suggesting adding esters will increase wear, they simply claim that AN is better at reducing wear than esters. If you go to other sources, you find that adding esters to an oil typically reduces wear and friction loss.

Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Thanks Tom for the bit on esters. I also didn’t realize ZDDP actually laid down a permanent coating on metallic surfaces. FWIW, Motul 300V is almost entirely ester, and it’s a fantastic oil for high performance street and racing applications.


Motul 300V appears to be made from mostly PAO, with addition of some group III and II. They never really say how much ester their oils contain, but I would expect it to be only a small amount.

 

[Tom NJ]

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
90% of the dealers use mobil 1 on service fill here in finland. Finland have one of the oldest car parks in eu. Mobil 1 is the most trusted oil brand over here. And i havent heard any oil related problems with mobil1, plus you have a clean engine with mobil1.
And i am not fan of any oil brand.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: tig1
In my 40 years of using M1 oils I have never had an engine show any sign of wear.


Same here and I will continue to use with confidence.

 

[irv]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: tig1
In my 40 years of using M1 oils I have never had an engine show any sign of wear.


Same here and I will continue to use with confidence.


As Pajero asked, you know this how?

 

[HouseTiger]

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken


Fundera på samma sak som du när jag läste artickeln. Håller fullständigt med dig!



Yeah . . . what he said !

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: HouseTiger
Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
Fundera på samma sak som du när jag läste artickeln. Håller fullständigt med dig!

Yeah . . . what he said !

"Think about the same thing as you when I read the article. Completely with you!"

I guess he likes to read in English and write in Swedish.

 

[jongies3]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: jongies3
So the engine in my Tacoma is bound to blow up at any second? What does this mean for Amsoil users, a company that buys all their base oils from XOM?


No Amsoil does NOT buy ALL their base oils from ExxonMobil. Your posts are almost always wrong when you mention Amsoil.

I am not sure why it is a surprise to anyone that a lubricant, base oil, additive, any molecule will shear given a severe enough application.


No need to get defensive there buddy!

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: irv
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: tig1
In my 40 years of using M1 oils I have never had an engine show any sign of wear.


Same here and I will continue to use with confidence.


As Pajero asked, you know this how?

I think the fact that he has never needed any engine repairs in 40 years is proof enough that Mobil 1 is a good oil. Because at the end of the day, that's all that matters here. If your oil is preventing engine rebuilds or costly repairs, it's doing it's job. And simply put, Mobil 1 DOES IT'S JOB! Who cares if it shows more iron in some UOAs, that's obviously not causing engines to wear out sooner.

I throw it back to you irv, what proof do you have that it's an inferior oil? And don't say high iron in UOAs, because that means nothing. Give me some other proof. We have already had members of this site tell us that they've torn down engines that used Mobil 1 and inside was perfectly clean and showed no signs of wear.