Originally Posted By: earlyre
you may note in my previous post to that one, I ALSO said they didn't take bail out money,but pointed out that was because because they had just gotten a fresh Multi-Billion Dollar infusion of TAX PAYER money before hand, that allowed them to keep the company afloat.
Are you new? Seriously, I don't know how many times it has to be explained, yet you still miss it!
The "retooling loans" were just that, loans to refit the plants for green technology efforts and that's what the money was used for. That's what Nissan's money was used for. Did you even bother to read the information I posted earlier?
Ford borrowed EIGHTEEN BILLION DOLLARS privately BEFORE the financial collapse, even putting their own logo up on the docket:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/27/busine...artner=homepage
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DEARBORN, Mich., Nov. 27 — For the first time in its 103-year history, the Ford Motor Company is mortgaging its assets, including factories, equipment, office buildings, patents and trademarks, and stakes in subsidiaries like Volvo, in order to raise $18 billion to overhaul itself.
The amount Ford is borrowing exceeds the total market value of all its outstanding stock by more than $2 billion.
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Ford, in a statement, said it needs the financing “to address near- and medium-term negative operating-related cash flow, to fund its restructuring, and to provide added liquidity to protect against a recession or other unanticipated events.”
The company said it expects to complete the financing by the end of the year, giving it a total of $38 billion in liquidity to work with.
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I guess what i'm really tired of seeing is This on shirts and Bumper stickers:
That's simply because you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.
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and y'all are arguing semantics.
Yes, they got loans that weren't a part of TARP for Specific Projects. that would then allow their accountants to move the funds they would have spent on those projects, to other areas to help keep the company afloat. But those loans were still paid to them with Tax Dollars, Yours and Mine.
Do you understand the difference between bankruptcy and a loan? Because this statement would appear to indicate that you don't.
Nobody is arguing semantics, you just appear to be oblivious to the MASSIVE difference between the two scenarios that are being contrasted here:
Scenario 1:
Company F takes out 18 billion in private loans to have enough capital on hand to weather the financial collapse. They mortgage everything they own to secure this money. They also take a 5.9 billion dollar retooling LOAN from the government for Green Energy endeavours. Company F successfully survives the financial collapse and continues to work on paying back the massive debt they incurred in order to do so.
Scenario 2:
Company G takes 33 billion in taxpayer money, files for Chapter 11, screws over shareholders, debtholders....etc and then is half owned by the government. The government then sells off their shares of the company resulting in a net loss of 12 billion dollars (10.5 billion for GM and 1.5 billion for GMAC).
Do you not see the huge difference here?
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I just can't stand people for demonizing the other 2 for taking the Money, and then championing Ford for not, when they did take Money, it just wasn't THAT money. Ford Simply had better timing.
What I can't stand is people with no real grasp of the facts spouting off about something they obviously lack two sweet clues about. If everybody thought the way you do, Ford would have been better off taking taxpayer money and going bankrupt because apparently securing private loans that haven't cost anybody anything (loans are being paid back... and loans, real loans, have interest on them) and going through a sham bankruptcy are the same thing.
While Ford may have indeed had better foresight/timing in securing the necessary cash to stay afloat, they were able to do so due to their financial health. Ford didn't go bankrupt. The other two obviously weren't in the same boat financially, because even with the massive cash infusion from the government, they still went Chapter 11.
At least Chrysler was purchased by FIAT, something that at least led to the money they were loaned being paid back. I'm not bashing GM (everything that transpired with them including the terms of the bankruptcy, the sale of the shares....etc was done by the government) but to equate what happened with Chrysler and particularly with GM, where there WAS a huge financial loss, to what Ford did is nothing but a massive disservice to the efforts taken by those at the helm of Ford who worked hard and mortgaged everything in order to keep that ship afloat.
