Korean Conflict

[Ursae_Majoris]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
The people here are so easy to fool.

No, mainstream media and communists/socialists in schools have been successful in dumbing down the population. People are not taught critical thinking skills, so they do not bother to seek out "the rest of the story".

 

[Dan4510]

Think about it. Do we really want to mix in this and wind up fighting another war we can't afford?

At some point we need to give up empire building.

But I will say this, if we go to war, we need to go to war. Ring them in and kill everything that moves till you are done. Need to do the same thing with terrorists. Identify them kill till the roots are gone. Politically correct wars are losing wars

Dan

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
After selling our souls to China for the bottom-line..... Owning the US via debt. It puts one in a very awkward position having to consider the prospect of armed conflict with our debtor, or their fronts.


Everyone keeps saying this over and over again. You still don't get it. It was a buy off ..a pay off ..and inclusion into the League of Distinguished Gentlemen since they had run out of steam as they were and were too expensive to take out.

As far as the debt? Sue me..that's how much electronic debt means in real terms. The majority of functional and significant industrial world is aligned with the west.

We have too many of "our interests" in the area to have it disrupted. The old excuse we used to stick our foot in everyone's behind for what we wanted and needed because we were the 850lb gorilla ..well, it's come to be a liability. Now we've got to back up that interdependency ..and we are just finding the balance sheet is tipping more to the buying off than it is pounding down.

"We" ..meaning you and me are the ones financing this bribe to give the Chinese alternatives to war.

Now they're partners and the struggle now is who is going to have majority share on the board of directors.

This story should be old enough for you to recognize it by now. Heck, Rome paid off Genghis khan to leave them alone.

The rest is commentary on the mechanics of the proxy fight.

 

[bigmike]

War isn't an option anymore. I think TV ended wars. It's easier reading about war, but nobody wants to SEE dead people.

All this talk of how great the military might of the US is nonsense. How tough can a tough guy be when someone ties their arm behind their back?

In North Korea, sanctions and the waiting game is the only true answer. Pressure China into keeping control of their madman neighbor. Now that money is involved, this pressure is easy to apply. South Korea (as well as several other countries) need to be allowed to take matters into their own hands. The US doesn't need to be everyone's fall guy anymore.

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh


, ...They also have, in one of the more interesting intelligence coups of the 20th century, U.S. made Hughes 500 Defenders (the same chopper that is used by U.S. special operations that's derived from the OH-6, but adapted with advanced avionics and anti-tank capability). They were procured in the 1980s using a phony front company fraudulently claiming they were going to then West Germany IIRC. But again, severe shortages may have marginalized their air threat....


Like the Iranians and thier F-14 Tomcats?
They have them. Every once in awhile someone well connected enough can turn traitor on our nation get parts for them. But for the most part, the mighty Iranian Tomcats just collect dust.


It's much easier to get spare parts for OH-6 derived aircraft than it is F-14 Tomcats. And the NK Hughes500MDs are over a decade newer. I think the main fear is that they'll be used by special operations forces as Trojan Horses...

 

[PandaBear]

It is easy to win a battle, but hard to win a war. We've seen it over and over again.

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
It is easy to win a battle, but hard to win a war. We've seen it over and over again.



Yes.
In today's world, when you reduce a city to rubble, terrorists crawl out of the ruins.

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: expat
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
It is easy to win a battle, but hard to win a war. We've seen it over and over again.



Yes.
In today's world, when you reduce a city to rubble, terrorists crawl out of the ruins.


Or freedom fighters depending on the perspective.

The problem is that throughout this big discussion nobody raised the issue of what the h*** are we doing occupying faraway lands or killing/threatening to kill other nationals while our country is going down the tubes at an alarming pace.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: expat

Yes.
In today's world, when you reduce a city to rubble, terrorists crawl out of the ruins.

yep.

Putin declared the war in Chechnya to be over. The city of Grozny was completely obliterated. Many cities in WWII weren't damaged that bad. They leveled it and declared victory.

The separatists disagree. They crawled out of the ruins still defiant.

Note: I used the word separatists. I leave it up to the reader to define the Chechens that oppose Russia.

 

[Audi Junkie]

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: expat
"faces like that girl will win....the hearts and minds....just saying."


Unfortunately, for her. it's not a caucasian face,
China?
I don't know.

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
It is easy to win a battle, but hard to win a war. We've seen it over and over again.


You just made my point exactly. Hearts and minds. And actually better in 2010 that it's not a Caucasian face.

Hearts and minds baby!!

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: expat
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
It is easy to win a battle, but hard to win a war. We've seen it over and over again.



Yes.
In today's world, when you reduce a city to rubble, terrorists crawl out of the ruins.


Or freedom fighters depending on the perspective.

The problem is that throughout this big discussion nobody raised the issue of what the h*** are we doing occupying faraway lands or killing/threatening to kill other nationals while our country is going down the tubes at an alarming pace.


Because we're mostly unaware of how much those who are deciding these things are shaking down the world and benefiting. We're also unaware of how much worse it might be if they weren't doing what they're doing.

You live in a Capitalist society. There has to be losers. As we get poorer (or less rich as some may view us), that situation must get worse. Our losers are more poor than they used to be. Before a loser could make a living or live off of the drippings of the functional's/gainful's. Less tinkle down ..less drippings ..more poor dysfunctional's. Simple math.

Think of it this way. We commanded about 95% of the free world's resources at one time. It was due to two simple things. We had the only intact industrial base to use them, AND, more importantly, we could pay for them.

Did our fine shepherds "import domestics" so that each and every American could sit at home with servants and watch their "life apprentices" get experience?

Nope.

Yet the wealth channeled through here was enough to (effectively) develop most of the western aligned world via foreign aid in the form of tourists with guns and "most favored nation" status as it suited our strategic needs.

You want one of the (former) gleaming clean societies that the Nordics appeared to have. It works well when you don't have to pay for a global defense umbrella and don't mind "privilege" in exchange for lack of wealth accumulation. That is, a professional may only work 6months out of the year due to taxes. So he may have vacationed for 3 months at a clip.

Those days are coming or have come to an end for them too.

 

[rshaw125]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
South Korea has over twice the population of the North and their economy is 40 times larger. There is not a reason I can think of for the US to have any troops there.


Because the ROK backs us on everything.

Who was with us in Vietnam? The Republic of Korea. (and a few Aussies....the communists didn't like us but they genuinely feared the ROKs and Aussies)

They've had our collective backs a lot. We got thier's on this.

And I'm certain that if the Republic of Korea asked the US military to pack up and leave we would. We might fuss a bit about it but we would.


So? That is not even close to being a good enough reason for us to have troops there. Or in Europe or Japan for that matter. A complete waste of money.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
South Korea has over twice the population of the North and their economy is 40 times larger. There is not a reason I can think of for the US to have any troops there.


Because the ROK backs us on everything.

Who was with us in Vietnam? The Republic of Korea. (and a few Aussies....the communists didn't like us but they genuinely feared the ROKs and Aussies)

They've had our collective backs a lot. We got thier's on this.

And I'm certain that if the Republic of Korea asked the US military to pack up and leave we would. We might fuss a bit about it but we would.


So? That is not even close to being a good enough reason for us to have troops there. Or in Europe or Japan for that matter. A complete waste of money.


No, don't get me wrong. I like Korea. But I think it might be time to leave.

You really get a sense of it when you talk to the people. The older people who remember the communists and thier children who grew up hearing the horrors of the communists love us. They are kind and wonderful people. But the younger generations clearly don't want us. It's thier country. They will be old enough to be running it soon.

 

[Vikas]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan

The problem is that throughout this big discussion nobody raised the issue of what the h*** are we doing occupying faraway lands or killing/threatening to kill other nationals while our country is going down the tubes at an alarming pace.


Well, I did say that our higher up do not understand the basic principle that if you attack another country, that country will fight to the bitter end.

But it is trivial to debate relative strength of militaries if none of your family is at risk. If draft were to be re-instated, see how fast things will change. It is easy to send somebody else sons and daughters as cannon fodders.

- Vikas

 

[Gary Allan]

Ah ..the exemptions. Most of your male teachers are really draft deferment people if they're over 55 and not retired yet. My father watched the news footage from the Vietnam War. He wasn't well educated, but his savvy for the way things are was pretty sound. His remark at seeing that footage was "They're having the poor fight this war". He was a WWII pacific theater veteran who was in the army when war was declared.

 

[Herz]

Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
South Korea has over twice the population of the North and their economy is 40 times larger. There is not a reason I can think of for the US to have any troops there.


Because the ROK backs us on everything.

Who was with us in Vietnam? The Republic of Korea. (and a few Aussies....the communists didn't like us but they genuinely feared the ROKs and Aussies)

They've had our collective backs a lot. We got thier's on this.

And I'm certain that if the Republic of Korea asked the US military to pack up and leave we would. We might fuss a bit about it but we would.


So? That is not even close to being a good enough reason for us to have troops there. Or in Europe or Japan for that matter. A complete waste of money.


waste of money? you wont be saying that if ww3 ever broke out. Youd be wishing we had all those satelite bases.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: defektes
you wont be saying that if ww3 ever broke out. Youd be wishing we had all those satelite bases.

If WW III breaks out..no one anywhere will need any base.

The only base needed will be for the last men on earth to port into on their Nuclear subs.

 

[rshaw125]

Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: defektes
you wont be saying that if ww3 ever broke out. Youd be wishing we had all those satelite bases.

If WW III breaks out..no one anywhere will need any base.

The only base needed will be for the last men on earth to port into on their Nuclear subs.


Exactly. The bases are from the last century. In Europe we're 'protecting' from an enemy that has not existed in 20 years. In Japan the US is borrowing money from China and Japan to keep a base in Okinawa.The people there want us to leave. It's way past time to close them all.

 

[Vikas]

Does anybody remember the famous quote from Einstein? Something about not knowing how WW-3 would be fought but he was sure that WW-4 will be fought with stones and sticks.

- Vikas