Kia Forte Oil Recomendation

[rich1]

Hootbro,thanks very much for posting that TSB.I think I will just get my filters from my selling dealership as they are just around the corner from where I work.We have had 4 other Kias and I had never seen this info before.
Our Forte manual lists same info for oil grades as your Soul.Why is the 5w-20 recomended over the 5w-30?Better mpg with the lighter oil?

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
I think what is unique about the KIA/Hyundai TSB is that they have plainly stated warranty repairs due to what "they" deem is an incorrect spec'd aftermarket filter, will be denied.

I am sure people will throw out the "Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act", but that will be an uphill battle in this case.


I agree their TSB is strictly worded, but certainly not going too far. It's something we all already know. If an aftermarket filter fails or fails to perform its function adequately and the engine experiences problems as a result, that's for the filter warranty to cover, not the engine warranty.

Car manufacturers simply have no control over the quality of aftermarket parts. And they certainly have no way of ensuring that someone is putting on an OEM vs. a Wix/Purolator/Bosch/Mann/M1/other quality filter vs. something of unknown manufacture, origins, or quality control.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
You would think a Bosch D+ , Pure One and Mobil 1 would all be good oil filter- but who knows in a Kia or Hyundai ? Even if they include a anti - drain back valve they may produce a different oil pressure than Kia / Hyundai specs.


Those are all great brands and great filters but something seems to be unique about the KIA/Hyundai engines in regards to their oil filter requirements.

In addition to the start-up rattle, I have also recall reading that some testing was done in high rpm operations and many aftermarket filter failed to meet the bypass requirements for KIA/Hyundai.

I do not think KIA/Hyundai is being malicious in a profit motive to say only their filters, just that nobody has built a aftermarket filter to fit their requirements.

Most of the aftermarket filter makers throw an equivalent Fram part # PH2808 to these engines because they fit and not because it is built to the spec needed to these engines.

It also does not help that some KIA/Hyundai dealerships throw on a cheap lube shop grade generic filter when people get their oil changed on either a prepaid maintenance plan the dealer offered or advertised as a "budget" filter change. This is more ignorance of those particular dealerships rather than anecdotal evidence that aftermarket filters are OK.

I think what is unique about the KIA/Hyundai TSB is that they have plainly stated warranty repairs due to what "they" deem is an incorrect spec'd aftermarket filter, will be denied.

I am sure people will throw out the "Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act", but that will be an uphill battle in this case.

While not a filter brand snob by any means, I have bought a case of the factory KIA/Hyundai filters and can say they are a top notch quality piece. While I have not dissect one, the TSB above gives a cutaway pic and shows it to be above average in construction.


"I am sure people will throw out the "Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act", but that will be an uphill battle in this case."

In my best Samuel L Jackson please. Any lawyer worth his weight in salt would destroy Kia's clams. The Magnuson-Moss act is very simply written unless manufacture is providing the parts or service free of charge the manufacture does not have a leg to stand on. Wait until someone complains to the FTC Kia will be singing a different tone.

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: dave1251


"I am sure people will throw out the "Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act", but that will be an uphill battle in this case."

In my best Samuel L Jackson please. Any lawyer worth his weight in salt would destroy Kia's clams. The Magnuson-Moss act is very simply written unless manufacture is providing the parts or service free of charge the manufacture does not have a leg to stand on. Wait until someone complains to the FTC Kia will be singing a different tone.


I figured someone would throw it out and I guess that is you.

The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is one of those laws that while it says what it does and everybody likes to quote it, it is in practice a female dog of a law to actually have enforced.

Since it is a Federal law, you have to bring suit in Federal court, most people of lower financial means do not have the resources to bring it to bear. As for the FTC that is has oversight of it, you better have more than a handful of people for them to even consider acting on your behalf and get redress.

Also, the act has provisions that may force you into arbitration and that can be a pig in a poke also.

I would like to play internet Perry Mason and agree that the law would be on your side, but bringing it to fruition is more than most would not like to deal with in the long haul.

I welcome anybody here to get that ball rolling by asking their dealer for a free oil filter and turn down so they can have claim to bring suit.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
I welcome anybody here to get that ball rolling by asking their dealer for a free oil filter and turn down so they can have claim to bring suit.


I'm with the manufacturer on this one. Their not requiring OEM filters at all. If I buy the absolute worst filter one can imagine and it fails, causing engine damage, why should the vehicle manufacturer be on the hook? I might expect someone like Wix or Purolator to stand behind their product, but with some of the garbage out there, one really has to wonder.

I use aftermarket filters all the time. I'm sure companies like Kia aren't terribly worried about the guy who uses Wix or something like that. They're worried about some quick lube shop using a filter that cost them twenty-five cents.

 

[Brigadier]

Well then my argument would be, why did Kia design an engine that is incompatible with readily available aftermarket filters? And did they tell the purchaser ahead of time about this requirement?


Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Hootbro
I welcome anybody here to get that ball rolling by asking their dealer for a free oil filter and turn down so they can have claim to bring suit.


I'm with the manufacturer on this one. Their not requiring OEM filters at all. If I buy the absolute worst filter one can imagine and it fails, causing engine damage, why should the vehicle manufacturer be on the hook? I might expect someone like Wix or Purolator to stand behind their product, but with some of the garbage out there, one really has to wonder.

I use aftermarket filters all the time. I'm sure companies like Kia aren't terribly worried about the guy who uses Wix or something like that. They're worried about some quick lube shop using a filter that cost them twenty-five cents.

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Well then my argument would be, why did Kia design an engine that is incompatible with readily available aftermarket filters? And did they tell the purchaser ahead of time about this requirement?




Not the way it works. Aftermarket designs to the OEM and not the OEM to the aftermarket.

Cars and engines are always evolving with new filter requirements coming and going. It is not KIA's problem to make sure the aftermarket has caught up.

In this case, it just looks like some aftermarket filter designs are just not up to snuff and KIA is not going to be in the business of say what is or is not compatible with their product, nor should they have to.

I think those KIA owners who are wishing to use non-OEM filters need to ask those pointed questions to the aftermarket filter makers and get it in writing if their products will meet the requirements.

Not the first time the filter makers made a blanket application of a filter because it just fit to only find out later that some designs just did not work correctly.

 

[rich1]

So with the TSB info that was posted and all the other talk about Kia being sticklers about warrenty work with aftermarket parts I went and got an OEM filter today.Also spoke with the parts/service dept about the recommended oils for Kia's.The told me the use the full line of Valvoline products and that although the new cars come from factory filled with 5w-20,they use 5w-30 and there are no issues with engines or with Kia.
By the way,paid about $6.50 for a OEM filter.Very reasonable I thought.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Brigadier
Well then my argument would be, why did Kia design an engine that is incompatible with readily available aftermarket filters? And did they tell the purchaser ahead of time about this requirement?


It's not up to Kia to make things easier for Wix, Mann-Hummel, Champion Labs, or Honeywell. And, like I said, Kia probably isn't terribly worried about the consumer using a Wix or a Bosch. They're probably not even that worried about Frams. They're worried about the twenty-five cent jobber filters out there. Kia has no idea that one or more filter manufacturers are going to make shoddy filters, and it's not up to them to make accommodations for that. That being said, they did make accommodations for that by documenting it in a TSB. It's well established that no car manufacturer will warranty engine damage caused by a defective aftermarket filter.

Further, it's up to the aftermarket manufacturer to ensure they properly reverse engineer the filter. If they're not able to do the task, they shouldn't specify the filter for the Kia in question. Amsoil's been up front in the past about filters that may have compatibility issues. All the major filter manufacturers also recommend against using a filter that they don't specify for a particular application (i.e. upsizing).

Considering the OP got the OEM at a decent price, I guess everyone's a winner here. I tend to use OEM filters (or Wix) even out of warranty. The exception is my G since the OEM filter isn't much more than a rebadged Fram, so I'm told.

 

[rich1]

Thanks to everyone who posted,knowledgeable info from everyone.Glad I posted and got that TSB info.

I've always done my own oil changes and typically run valvoline products but have also used some "discount" oils from time to time with a wide aray of filters from wix,fram,stp,supertech.Always changed around 3,000 miles.Never once had any oil related issues or failures.

With that being said,I plan on keeping this Forte on a diet of valvoline Synpower(next change will switch to 5w-30 flavor)and OEM filters.