Is there any point in having an oil filter at all?

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We all talk a lot about oil filters and the quality of them. But has anybody taken the time to relate this data to real world engine wear data? I know my own knee jerk reaction is "the better the filter I have (ie: the more money it costs, the less my engine wear.) But is it true? Could it be that a Proline $1.99 filter allows the engine to wear no more than a Mobil 1 filter? I'm not saying I know or that I have drawn this conclusion. All I am saying is I have never seen any data showing a correlation between engine wear and the quality of an oil filter. What say you?
 
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As a matter of fact, Bob, the guy who founded this forum, did some testing with no oil filter on one of his vehicles. The results are posted if you search. His conclusion was that full flow filters really don't help reduce engine wear. However, it wasn't exactly a scientific study and he didn't tear the engine down to measure wear or anything.
 
Beats me. My primary concern is moreso getting a filter I know won't disintegrate or fail in itself. In the long run most filters have adequate abilities to remove debris from the oil. Enough to prevent severe bearing damage, not enough to totally clean the oil.

Filters are definitely useful, but I think working really hard to get better filtering efficiency is somewhat moot. Unless you're running longer OCI's, a better filter with more capacity can be beneficial.

But an oil filter is much like a transmission filter, its a "rock catcher". Regular oil changes remove the other contaminants that are an issue...including soluble contaminants no filter can remove.
 
My old beetle did not, well all the old aircooled vws had no oilfiter, just a magnetic plug, drove mine a long time, what can I say, VW sold a lot of Beetles..........
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
As a matter of fact, Bob, the guy who founded this forum, did some testing with no oil filter on one of his vehicles. The results are posted if you search. His conclusion was that full flow filters really don't help reduce engine wear. However, it wasn't exactly a scientific study and he didn't tear the engine down to measure wear or anything.


Did not know that, now this will open up some interesting conversations................
 
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
You have a screen on your windows to keep insects out, is that a scam too because it doesn't filter the air down to a few microns?


I don't think this is a good analogy. Particulates are not insects and I am not a cylinder wall. Perhaps the engine just quickly grinds the particulates into powder before they do any harm. Or perhaps the iron/steel that the engine block is built from is Rockwell harder than the particulates. There are lots of possibilities. I am not saying this is what I think. I am saying where is the research? Show me the data.
 
I cut open all my filters to look at what they've caught. This is just my humble opinion, but I think it's good that all that [censored] gets removed from my oil.
 
I think the main point of the test was that newer engines make so little waste matter that the filter really does not do much in short changes. The air filter is much more important. The detergent of the oil can hold the stuff in suspension. IIRC, I dont think he went over 3k on that, but its been awhile since I measured it. Basically, as long as the air filter is in place and doing its job the oil filter does not have much of a job. This is why you see the super small filters anymore.
Though, this may be going backwards slightly, as modern GDI engines seem to like diluting the oil which increases acid formation and as such more matter to be developed.
 
Originally Posted By: k1rod
We all talk a lot about oil filters and the quality of them. But has anybody taken the time to relate this data to real world engine wear data? I know my own knee jerk reaction is "the better the filter I have (ie: the more money it costs, the less my engine wear.) But is it true? Could it be that a Proline $1.99 filter allows the engine to wear no more than a Mobil 1 filter? I'm not saying I know or that I have drawn this conclusion. All I am saying is I have never seen any data showing a correlation between engine wear and the quality of an oil filter. What say you?


You brought up a good subject and I do not think you will find definitive answers to it.

Many times, products like filters are more marketing than actual extra benefit brought to the end user. A $10 filter like a Mobil 1 is not exponentially 500% better than a $2 filter.

I believe there is to many other variable that affect a vehicles life that will lead it to it's grave early, than anything like not using a high end filter.

On the flip side though, consumers are expecting a high margin of safety/quality when going to higher priced and perceived better quality products. As for boutique name brand oils and filters delivering that, it remains to be seen.
 
Yes.

The oil filter's I have ran to 7,500+ miles have filtered out sludge/broken down oil. I can scrape the stuff off of the filter media when I cut them open. You can see it in some of the posts I've made in this section. I never see sizeable metal particles (but who knows what my eye's cannot pick up); but they DO filter stuff.

YMMV; this is on a '99 2.4L 'Twin-Cam' motor run with dino.

Would what they have filtered cause engine wear? Hmmm..
 
Originally Posted By: Colt45ws
IIRC, I dont think he went over 3k on that, but its been awhile since I measured it.

DERP
Meant "since I looked at it."
Being that last time I saw the report it was new...yeah.
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
As a matter of fact, Bob, the guy who founded this forum, did some testing with no oil filter on one of his vehicles. The results are posted if you search. His conclusion was that full flow filters really don't help reduce engine wear. However, it wasn't exactly a scientific study and he didn't tear the engine down to measure wear or anything.


and yet, Ford's testing back in the 50's showed that a full-flow filter dramatically reduced wear, like by half compared to a bypass-only filter. No offense to Bob's testing, but I think I'll go with testing published by the SAE, and with technology that has been adopting by 100% of auto manufacturers.
 
Mostly this is an issue of ROI. Risk versus reward, if you will.

If you really wanted to know how well a "normal" filter can perform, there are tests aready out there to show the relative performance of one to anther. I'll not debate that here.

But as for the "need" of a filter, there is some merit to that question.

I, for one, have said for some time that filters do not control wear in an engine; the oil does. Filters only have an INdirect affect on the wear. The lube has a direct affect on wear.

Put in a "clean" oil (from the bottle). There is an add-pack that has both detergents and dispersents that are supposed to keep soot/insolubles small for some period of time (call it "xxx" hours). Until you suprass that undefined limit where the add pack would be compromised, the filter has little to do. OEM full flow filters are basically (what I call) "chunk catchers". Thy are not efficient at the smaller particles which cause true damage (perhaps 5-15um, depending upon which study you want to place your faith in). But the oil add-pack is there from moment one. It's trying to control the contaminants from the beginning. And until that add pack is depleted (overwhelmed) it's what controls the damaging components in the oil.

Rare is the particle that would start out at 25um in size. That's huge, in the world of engine oil contaminants. But 5um particles are VERY prominant. Soot and other insolubles (oxidation) start out very small (sum-micronic) and only agglomerate (co-join) if allowed to do so. The add-pack uses it's technology to defer and defend against this effect. And the big chunks that would occur; what happens with them? A particle so big (say 25um) is too large to enter the space between a bearing shell and shaft. It might fit between a piston skirt and a cylinder wall as the piston rocks fore/aft in the stroke cycles perhaps? Generally, stuff that big is rare, and it caught on first pass at the full-flow filter.

Normal full-flow filters can only catch what is big enough to be caught (a self-fulfilling prophesey). Until the contamination becomes big enough (after the add pack is beaten down), the oil is what controls wear.

In short, filters do not clean engines; they clean oil. If your oil is "clean enough" from frequent OCIs, why would the filter ever matter much at all? Sure, there is an occasional chunk hurled into the filter; they do catch stuff. But it is the frequency that is in question here.

Think I'm wrong? Try this experiment in your garage with two vehicles:
veh 1) rig the oil filter so that it is in constant bypass, and fill the sump with clean oil. Drive 1k miles and sample the wear metals via a UOA.
veh 2) put on a premium PureOne filter, leave the sump completely dry, and drive around the block a few times. Now check your wear metals by scraping them off the bottom of the pan with a paper towel after your engine rebuild ...

Which has a DIRECT affect on the wear, and which has an indirect affect? Get the point?

Clean oil is what keeps equipment wear low. How that oil gets "clean" is a matter of methodology. You either filter oil or change oil. But until that oil is overwhelmed, the filter las very little to do but catch an occasional chunk here and there.

I would agree that testing from 50-60 years ago proved that full flow filters were important, but engines and oils have improved so greatly that those studies are moot; they have no merit in this discussion. As for the topic of bypass filtration, it certainly can keep the engine oil cleaner for a longer period, but they only "sample" the total flow on a 10% ratio (approximate), so 90% of any gallon never hits the bypass filter for any given flow attempt. In fact, the very fact that bypass filters can help clean oil on a low-particle-size level is paramount to show that the predominance of particulate occurence isn't that great to begin with. If it were, we'd need 10 bypass filters (each running at 10% total flow) to clean the oil well enough for 100% total flow. One could, in theory, eliminate the full flow filter, and rig up 10 bypass filters all in parallel flow, to get the 100% flow rating, and have really clean oil for a really long time. But that is kind of cost and space prohibitive, isn't it?

Oh - by the way, don't forget that lots of engines done have filters (lawn equipment, older 4-stroke small marine engines, etc). They all survive with frequent OCIs.

In short, filters don't make equipment last longer, they make fluids last longer in service.

Now, go all the way to the top of my post here.

Do you NEED an oil filter? It depends upon the length of you OCI plan. But it's very cheap to install one, just in case a devasting chunk comes along every once in a great while ...
 
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I guess if one is getting devastating chunks in the filter, how long has this chunk circulated before it got to the filter? hmmm
 
"Think I'm wrong? Try this experiment in your garage with two vehicles:
veh 1) rig the oil filter so that it is in constant bypass, and fill the sump with clean oil. Drive 1k miles and sample the wear metals via a UOA.
veh 2) put on a premium PureOne filter, leave the sump completely dry, and drive around the block a few times. Now check your wear metals by scraping them off the bottom of the pan with a paper towel after your engine rebuild ...

Which has a DIRECT affect on the wear, and which has an indirect affect? Get the point? "

Come on, Dave! You gotta do better than this for Spock-like logic and useful analogies.

I don't fully disagree with all or most of your assertions, because it's true that a lightly stressed, modern, fuel injected engine with frequent oil changes isn't going to see a high level of oil contamination... but that isn't the real world, is it? What you do see are cars with long OCIs (whether intended or not) and less-than-ideal operating cycles and that's where filtration comes into play.

The level of filtration can be debated, but the reason I think we are not seeing greatly higher levels of filtration are the laws of averages guiding the application of filtration. The majority of engines get by just fine with the current levels and adding more doesn't add to the OEM's bottom line. But that doesn't mean their cars wouldn't do better with enhanced filtration and that's the definitive study I'm looking for. I'm gearing up for a "low rent" version of such a study myself and it will include a 99.9% @ 20 primary filter coupled with a 3 um bypass with Rotella T in a gas 5.4L Ford and a diesel 6.9L. The current combos will also be tested when they reach the OCI but all that's a ways away.

I would point out that after more than a decade with higher-than-acceptible rates of trans failures due to contamination issues, the OEMs have finally been forced into enhanced filtration with automatics. The answers were there even before the OEMs were asking the questions, but the hesitation was always about the bottom line and the general "good enough is good enough" attitude that prevails when beancounters are in the loop and making change slow.

The ROI is the most valuable argument against super filtration in engines. It's doubtful I would have purchased the bypass systems I am using now due to their cost... BUT, they are allowing much longer OCIs and in the particular case of the Racor ABS system, I like the idea that they can absorb water and a certain amount of oxidation byproducts. Longer OCIs may be the factor that balances the ROI in favor of super filtration (over the "norm").

As to enhanced filtration. i.e. paying a few extra bucks a premium filter that is an improvement over the standard level of filtration (RP, M1, Bosch, Amsoil, etc.), there is little empirical evidence at present to make a serious argument either way, only hints and a lot of ad hype. No matter what, the ROI is poorer for the higher cost filters in the "enhanced efficiency" category, but some, like the Fram Ultra, Pure One and possibly the D+ stand out as value priced filters in that category that could even the odds a bit, though I'm a little leery of a P1 in a greatly extended OCI due to it's relatively low capacity vs the others (i.e. 13 grams vs 30 grams for the Ultra and 28 grams IIRC for the D+).

My "gut" thinks better filtration is ... better... and in the end will prove to be worth a premium (at some level at least). My gut was influenced by talking with a number of well placed experts in the filtration world who say essentially, "There's no such thing as oil that's too clean." That's a true statement but, of course but it needs balanced against ROI and there lies the debate.
 
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
I would point out that after more than a decade with higher-than-acceptible rates of trans failures due to contamination issues, the OEMs have finally been forced into enhanced filtration with automatics.


I think that's a rather apt comparison. After all, as has been indicated here, if we took some arbitrarily low OCI in a normal, well maintained engine, even without an oil filter, we'd have few problems. Of course, there would be statistical anomalies and people would be running to the dealer for warranty work. So, keeping the standard spin on or cartridge type filter has worked well for a lot of years, without requiring 99.99999% efficiency, which is, as you pointed out, mostly marketing.

Look at the usual type of transmission filtration, though. Screens, permanent/lifetime filters, and so forth. Personally, I suspect a spin on type filter, along with an easy way to drain the transmission, would do much better, but I can see why both the bean counters and the engineers would prefer to minimize the number of car owners who monkey with their transmissions.
 
"Is there any point in having an oil filter at all?"

A B S O L U T E L Y

Could a motor last quit awhile without an oil filter ... probably, IF the oil was changed on a VERY REGULAR AND SHORT period.

The longer OCI's of today actually drive the need for a good oil filter even more than ever IMO.
 
Originally Posted By: Virtuoso
I never see sizeable metal particles (but who knows what my eye's cannot pick up); but they DO filter stuff.


Dry out the media by wrapping absorbent paper towels held around the media with rubber bands for a few days, then look at the media with a strong light and a 10X magnifying glass and you'll be surprised what you can see trapped in the media.

I have seen a few small aluminum particles, gasket material, nylon or plastic particles on engines with 30~40K miles on them. They are still "breaking in" to some degree.
 
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