I would appreciate your opinions on whether or not it is worth it to get the local Honda (or anybody else) dealership to professionally clean my fuel injectors. I live in canada and have 228,000 kms on my Honda civic. I use good gas and routinely use fuel injector cleaner but I notice that the mileage is very gradually starting to drop. Is this due to the car simply getting older and running less efficiently or is it due to dirty injectors or fuel filter slowly becoming plugged.
Is it worth it to get my fuel injectors professionally cleaned?
- Thread starter airbus
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I would just start running Fuel Power. It has made a noticeable difference in every engine I have run it in, and cleans the entire fuel system and everything downstream of it as well.
Airbus
I would look at a few other possibilities that are contributing to the low milage.
I once found a faulty EGR valve, which allowed warm exhaust back into the engine intake side on my dads accord. Spark plugs and worn rotor/cap may be contributing as well.
During the checks, I was looking for any other air/vacuum leaks as well. On my cavalier it was a cracked vacuum line that gave me power loss, and big difference in fuel economy.
Keep in mind that the cylinders may not be sealing as well now, so one thing I have read on this board is Auto RX, which I have not yet tried.
I would look at a few other possibilities that are contributing to the low milage.
I once found a faulty EGR valve, which allowed warm exhaust back into the engine intake side on my dads accord. Spark plugs and worn rotor/cap may be contributing as well.
During the checks, I was looking for any other air/vacuum leaks as well. On my cavalier it was a cracked vacuum line that gave me power loss, and big difference in fuel economy.
Keep in mind that the cylinders may not be sealing as well now, so one thing I have read on this board is Auto RX, which I have not yet tried.
I would say not, I and my friends have tried these services in the past and either no difference in mileage or for me fuel pump died shortly after. Perhaps not related but found it odd that car was running great and after fuel injector service the pump goes out.
I noticed a good jump in milage after I did an Auto-RX treatment and I also started putting in a dose of Lucas UCL in at every gas fill. Since your in Canada, I got mine Lucas UCL at PartSource, which I bought for like $11 and is good for about 10 fills.
Btw my car is an Integra with 353,000 kms. Both are higher milage Honda's
Try BG 44K. go and ask to GM dealer.
BG 44K search on this web site.
BG 44K search on this web site.
Running an on vehicle FI cleaning is professional. The only thing it lacks is a spray pattern picture which isn't needed.
It will also clean everything downstream of the injector. This includes the intake, intake valves, combustion chamber, piston tops.... which you don't get with an off vehicle FI cleaning.
When done correctly, your fuel injectors and pump will not be destroyed.
Another option is to do it yourself. Grab a new fuel filter, a bottle of BG44k, and a can of Amsoil power foam. Change the filter, follow the directions for BG44k and power foam, and keep driving!
It will also clean everything downstream of the injector. This includes the intake, intake valves, combustion chamber, piston tops.... which you don't get with an off vehicle FI cleaning.
When done correctly, your fuel injectors and pump will not be destroyed.
Another option is to do it yourself. Grab a new fuel filter, a bottle of BG44k, and a can of Amsoil power foam. Change the filter, follow the directions for BG44k and power foam, and keep driving!
I don't consider them professional because you can buy the kits yourself and a professional is not needed to perform them. And yes on some fuel injectors it will destroy them, even if done properly. According to Terry and Molekule, FP is safe for even these injectors.
-T
-T
http://www.motorvac.com/mcs245_pg.html
Buying a kit doesn't make you a professional.
Anything not done properly can destroy something.
I'm still trying to figure out how something, when done correctly, will cause issues especially when using the same chemicals used by "injector cleaning machines" that you claim is the best way.
Where are all these destroyed injectors that you've witnessed?
What service was being performed? brand? method?
What shop was doing the work? tech experience levels or competence?
Share the stories and the experience and quit slamming an entire industry.
Create rumours and spread the FEAR
Gotta run. Have an FI cleaning that needs to be done. After that, I have a 150k mile auto transmission on OEM fluid that needs a flush!
Buying a kit doesn't make you a professional.
Anything not done properly can destroy something.
I'm still trying to figure out how something, when done correctly, will cause issues especially when using the same chemicals used by "injector cleaning machines" that you claim is the best way.
Where are all these destroyed injectors that you've witnessed?
What service was being performed? brand? method?
What shop was doing the work? tech experience levels or competence?
Share the stories and the experience and quit slamming an entire industry.
Create rumours and spread the FEAR
Gotta run. Have an FI cleaning that needs to be done. After that, I have a 150k mile auto transmission on OEM fluid that needs a flush!
http://134.39.200.6:9001/servlets/B...=null&appYear=null&appMake=null&appModel=null
I didn't say the professional way was safe of all injectors either. I suggested FP. A family friend brought his 350 Camaro in a trusted shop and they performed one of these injector cleanings, a day later the car died, all of the injectors were shorted.
I think you and I might be referring to different methods. The link you posted says that it's the first of its kind. Most shops I've seen use a similar system like these:
http://www.diynet.com/diy/ab_auto_fuel_system/article/0,2021,DIY_13679_2276265,00.html
http://store.autotoolexpress.com/fuelincleank.html
Buying the kit doesn't make you a professional, that's my point, it doesn't take a professional to clean the injectors with an in vehicle kit.
Your basically added a very concentrated cleaner to the fuel system. In most cases it is not harmful, but I think in many it is either not needed or not helpful. Perhaps if the injectors are clogged or very dirty. For something just as a drop in mileage, a good in-tank cleaner should be effective.
-T
I didn't say the professional way was safe of all injectors either. I suggested FP. A family friend brought his 350 Camaro in a trusted shop and they performed one of these injector cleanings, a day later the car died, all of the injectors were shorted.
I think you and I might be referring to different methods. The link you posted says that it's the first of its kind. Most shops I've seen use a similar system like these:
http://www.diynet.com/diy/ab_auto_fuel_system/article/0,2021,DIY_13679_2276265,00.html
http://store.autotoolexpress.com/fuelincleank.html
Buying the kit doesn't make you a professional, that's my point, it doesn't take a professional to clean the injectors with an in vehicle kit.
Your basically added a very concentrated cleaner to the fuel system. In most cases it is not harmful, but I think in many it is either not needed or not helpful. Perhaps if the injectors are clogged or very dirty. For something just as a drop in mileage, a good in-tank cleaner should be effective.
-T
Try a couple bottles of Redline SI-1 Complete Fuel System Cleaner (one per sucessive tank fulls).
I WOULD SHOOT MYSELF IN THE HEAD before getting a service done like that. YOU all think additives are bad these guys are worse than worse. They use a glorified fuel pump that misses 50% of your fuel system and does little to nothing and charges you for a "service" what service you hooked up a machine to my fuel rails turned the car on and walked away for an hour and charge me 70-100 bucks and did half a job NO THANKS.
Additives start in the gas tank where a lot of fuelsystems are born most new cars have the pump inside the tank you missed that and the tank? You missed the lines to the filter. You missed the lines to the fuel rails and you missed the return lines. and pulsated my injectors at little to maybe a little more pressure than my fuel pump. I've been offered this a few times and I argue with the shop guy everytime he has not and will not ever sell this service to me.
By the way motorvac and such are out to sell machined ok no problem but they really want you to buy motorvac fuel system cleaner.
Where does the service or added cost get justified?
I use this and on my newer truck since the day it came off the lot has run exactly the same i've even gained a little mileage on lesser quality fuel owning a supercharged truck required higher octane but using proTecta and lower quality fuel haven't noticed a difference except in my wallet.
the dealer told me that they tried lower quality fuel and had to drain the tank and replace it with higher octane fuel I almost believed them until prices skyrocketed and couldn't afford it on a 10mpg truck so flipped and used the protecta and still holding strong.
[ September 18, 2004, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: rugerman1 ]
Additives start in the gas tank where a lot of fuelsystems are born most new cars have the pump inside the tank you missed that and the tank? You missed the lines to the filter. You missed the lines to the fuel rails and you missed the return lines. and pulsated my injectors at little to maybe a little more pressure than my fuel pump. I've been offered this a few times and I argue with the shop guy everytime he has not and will not ever sell this service to me.
By the way motorvac and such are out to sell machined ok no problem but they really want you to buy motorvac fuel system cleaner.
Where does the service or added cost get justified?
I use this and on my newer truck since the day it came off the lot has run exactly the same i've even gained a little mileage on lesser quality fuel owning a supercharged truck required higher octane but using proTecta and lower quality fuel haven't noticed a difference except in my wallet.
the dealer told me that they tried lower quality fuel and had to drain the tank and replace it with higher octane fuel I almost believed them until prices skyrocketed and couldn't afford it on a 10mpg truck so flipped and used the protecta and still holding strong.
[ September 18, 2004, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: rugerman1 ]
Here's your best advice, IMHO. Make sure your car is mechanically sound before expecting a miracle in a bottle/can to solve your problem. Make sure your plugs, wires, rotor, cap, vacuum hoses, air cleaner, etc, are in good condition, and your emission components are working properly. The AutoRX may help a little or a lot depending on how well you kept after the OCIs in relation to the quality of the oil you used.
Professionally cleaned can mean a few things too. The best way would be to remove the injectors and put them in a injector cleaning machine where they are cleaned and tested. The method where they hook a bottle of cleaner to the rail and run the car is not what I'd call professional. I've seen injectors destroyed this way.
-T
-T
You still trying to push that snake oil salsahh? When are you gonna learn there are very few fools on this forum?
"I use this http://www.sfrcorp.com/product.asp?ProductID=9"
salsahh, why use anything at all? Simply keep good quality fuel in it and you should never need any additives.
I've seen many 200K+ mileage vehicles that have never had any fuel system cleaners (yes, fuel injected) that run just fine.
airbus, I would look elsewhere for your fuel mileage drop before I would suspect the fuel injectors. Since you seem pretty comfortable with the quality of fuel, I'd look at some of the sensors that can have the same affect, such as the O2 sensor.
salsahh, why use anything at all? Simply keep good quality fuel in it and you should never need any additives.
I've seen many 200K+ mileage vehicles that have never had any fuel system cleaners (yes, fuel injected) that run just fine.
airbus, I would look elsewhere for your fuel mileage drop before I would suspect the fuel injectors. Since you seem pretty comfortable with the quality of fuel, I'd look at some of the sensors that can have the same affect, such as the O2 sensor.
I sent my injectors out to be sonic cleaned and flow matched. When I reinstalled them and went for the first road test, I thought I was driving a different car! Biggest single improvement I've ever done to a vehicle! The car had about 90K on it when this was done.
I'm still toying with running Fuel Power, but so far Schaeffer's Neutra 131 has been working great for me.
I'm still toying with running Fuel Power, but so far Schaeffer's Neutra 131 has been working great for me.
Yep still hard at it pushing my snake oil and i see all of you are as well.
I'm actually laying low cause its XTREMELY boring around here all we talk about is how great auto rx and fuel power is and complain about snake oils. Its difficult to have a conversation about any other additives and although i choose SFR I participate and talk about other subjects. I choose to stay away from the oil forums simply because they have nothing new to say about oil except its synthetic.
Additives are what do the real dirty work
I'm getting the article around that i found interesting about the Future of Tribology and Metalergy.
a recent poll was taken among metalergists and the question was
WHAT ARE THE MOST POTENTIAL ENERGY EFFICIENT SAVINGS WITH LUBRICANTS.
1.Synthetic base stocks
2.Additives
3.condition monitoring
Additives i thought they were bad.
2nd poll was were could the largest impact be from these savings.
1. cars and trucks by a long shot
MichealC80 if you truly believe that using a good quality fuel is all you need to keep your fuelsystem tip top tell me this
WHY TOP TIER, IF CHEVRON'S GAS IS SO GOOD WHY TECHRON?
If you haven't done so you need to read this.
http://www.sfrcorp.com/oil-additives.asp
I'm actually laying low cause its XTREMELY boring around here all we talk about is how great auto rx and fuel power is and complain about snake oils. Its difficult to have a conversation about any other additives and although i choose SFR I participate and talk about other subjects. I choose to stay away from the oil forums simply because they have nothing new to say about oil except its synthetic.
Additives are what do the real dirty work
I'm getting the article around that i found interesting about the Future of Tribology and Metalergy.
a recent poll was taken among metalergists and the question was
WHAT ARE THE MOST POTENTIAL ENERGY EFFICIENT SAVINGS WITH LUBRICANTS.
1.Synthetic base stocks
2.Additives
3.condition monitoring
Additives i thought they were bad.
2nd poll was were could the largest impact be from these savings.
1. cars and trucks by a long shot
MichealC80 if you truly believe that using a good quality fuel is all you need to keep your fuelsystem tip top tell me this
WHY TOP TIER, IF CHEVRON'S GAS IS SO GOOD WHY TECHRON?
If you haven't done so you need to read this.
http://www.sfrcorp.com/oil-additives.asp
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