Is it time to just say no?

[Mystic]

Is it time to just say no to expensive engine cleaners? Based on what we have been able to find out here it seems like there is little to no evidence that some of these engine cleaners do any good. But we do have some evidence that certain motor oils, such as Mobil 1, if used from the time an engine is new, will keep an engine clean enough with reasonable OCIs so that no engine cleaner would be necessary anyway.

Of course some people buy used cars but if you use a high quality motor oil with reasonable OCIs and if the engine is not too dirty you might be able to get the engine clean enough. If you are unlucky and own a sludge monster car you probably should cut your losses and sell that car.

A low cost engine cleaner like MMO could be used in a really dirty engine. What do you have to lose? The MMO is cheap and readily available. And useful as a fuel system cleaner and upper cylinder lubricate.

Otherwise why buy any expensive engine cleaner? You might as well use a high quality motor oil that might be able to get the engine clean enough. We have some actual photographic evidence at this website that some motor oils can potentially keep an engine very clean. We have no evidence that any expensive engine cleaner will clean an engine.

 

[mmack66]

How about just not saying yes?

 

[simple_gifts]

Quote:

We have no evidence that any expensive engine cleaner will clean an engine.


I'll take a compression test comparison over cursory visual inspections of "non working" parts of the engine.

 

[spasm3]

I think modern oils do a good job cleaning when changed apropriatly. I used to use mmo in the 80s in the oil all the time. This is not necessary with sn oils. If you had a sludge motor, mmo is a reasonable product to use. Its not that expensive and works slow, which is what you want. Other than that i see no need to add mmo to modern oils unless you already have sludge. The cheapest major brand dino sn oil( like supertech,autozone, aap brands) is better that the best dino from 20 years ago.

 

[V8man]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Is it time to say no to expensive engine cleaners?


Yes and No.

Varnish = NO
Sludge = NO
Cleaning the Valvetrain = NO

As far as Kreen, there are members who have seen a benefit in quieting noisy lifters, so in this case there is a benefit with this product. So we can say YES with Kreen in certain applications.

It would be nice if certain oil additives would state what there product can and cannot do, and if they are making claims they need some kind of proof.

I have not personally used MMO, yet I have some friends that like the product in there engines. One of my friends is a regular user of MMO in his engine and his Valvetrain is spotless, maybe MMO can keep an engine clean, of course oil's like Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Platinum can probably do that if you do reasonable OCI's.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Quote:

We have no evidence that any expensive engine cleaner will clean an engine.


I'll take a compression test comparison over cursory visual inspections of "non working" parts of the engine.




I'll do that, and then look and see clean "non working" parts of the engine too.


Several of us can make that claim.

 

[Mystic]

Yes, and the motor oils will not potentially void a warranty and the motor oils meet all of the requirements for the engine. If the motor oils can keep the engine clean enough there is no need for any engine cleaner.

Kreen may have some ability to quiet noisy lifters. Some people have noticed that.

And in the case of a dirty engine at least MMO is cheap and readily available.

I don't think a cleaner can be considered effective just because compression tests may indicate improved compression. What about the rest of the engine? If oil lines are not cleaned up there will be oil starvation. And if 2-3 bottles of the expensive engine cleaner are actually required a person could do several oil changes with Mobil 1 or Pennzoil especially if they could get the oil on sale. A few short OCI oil changes with Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Ultra might work just as well as the expensive engine cleaner.

In any case, a person should probably try a good motor oil before trying any engine cleaner. But at least some engine cleaners, like MMO, are cheap to use.

I think it is really time to move away from the expensive engine cleaners and think in terms of motor oils with good cleaning properties.

 

[Kuato]

I'm in the "certain motor oils ... if used from the time an engine is new, will keep an engine clean enough with reasonable OCIs so that no engine cleaner would be necessary..." club.

If I buy used, I do use ARX for one or two short intervals prior to getting into my normal OCI pattern.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Kuato
I'm in the "certain motor oils ... if used from the time an engine is new, will keep an engine clean enough with reasonable OCIs so that no engine cleaner would be necessary..." club.



My 2000 Century is proof [unfortunately] that is not always the case. I obtained it used and know for a fact it was properly maintained and had 3,000 mile or less OCI's with Dino oil. Some engines just get dirty no matter how well maintained they are.

 

[Mystic]

I think we have some reasonable evidence here that certain motor oils, if used form the time the car or truck is new, will keep the engine clean. People have taken photographs of the interiors of engines that look almost brand new when Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Platinum motor oils have been used.

We don't know yet if those motor oils will clean up a dirty engine. Exxon/Mobil and Pennzoil have made certain claims in that direction. If the motor oils will clean as well or better than expensive engine cleaners a person would be better off using the motor oils.

We have almost zero evidence that these expensive engine cleaners will clean the entire engine. Just an improvement in compression does not necessarily indicate a cleaner engine. And if the engine cleaner will only improve compression but not clean the entire engine than there should be claims for that cleaner just for improved compression.

 

[V8man]

Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
I'll take a compression test over cursory visual inspections of "non working" parts of the engine.


Pennzoil Platinum has been documented on this board with raising compression.

 

[Mystic]

I don't know what parts of an engine are considered or should be considered non-working. All parts of an engine are there for a reason. And oil line should not be plugged up with sludge. If it is you have problems, regardless what the compression readings are.

And if Pennzoil Platinum can raise compression values and keep the rest of the engine clean, of what value is the expensive engine cleaner? If all the expensive engine cleaner can do is raise compression values that is not enough. It cannot replace the motor oil (it needs to be used in motor oil) and if it cannot clean the rest of the engine than the claims should be only that it can raise compression values. Otherwise the claims are not correct.

And if it takes 2-3 bottles of the engine cleaner to clean an engine a person could do several oil changes with Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum or Ultra.

Best bet is to use high quality motor oil from the start and reasonable OCIs. You will probably never need an engine cleaner or if you do the car or truck will be very old.

If you do decide to not only use high quality motor oil but also an engine cleaner at least MMO is cheap and readily available and Kreen is also not too expensive.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
Is it time to just say no to expensive engine cleaners? Based on what we have been able to find out here it seems like there is little to no evidence that some of these engine cleaners do any good. But we do have some evidence that certain motor oils, such as Mobil 1, if used from the time an engine is new, will keep an engine clean enough with reasonable OCIs so that no engine cleaner would be necessary anyway.

Of course some people buy used cars but if you use a high quality motor oil with reasonable OCIs and if the engine is not too dirty you might be able to get the engine clean enough. If you are unlucky and own a sludge monster car you probably should cut your losses and sell that car.

A low cost engine cleaner like MMO could be used in a really dirty engine. What do you have to lose? The MMO is cheap and readily available. And useful as a fuel system cleaner and upper cylinder lubricate.

Otherwise why buy any expensive engine cleaner? You might as well use a high quality motor oil that might be able to get the engine clean enough. We have some actual photographic evidence at this website that some motor oils can potentially keep an engine very clean. We have no evidence that any expensive engine cleaner will clean an engine.

I would try low cost engine cleaner first before go up to more expensive one.

I tried Lubegard engine flush with minimum dosage, 2 oz in 5 quart oil and drive nrmal for 2-300 miles before oil change. The oil got darker very quick every 30-50 miles and was almost black after 300 miles, so it seems to clean the engine well.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

I tried Lubegard engine flush with minimum dosage, 2 oz in 5 quart oil and drive nrmal for 2-300 miles before oil change. The oil got darker very quick every 30-50 miles and was almost black after 300 miles, so it seems to clean the engine well.


That seems to be one of the forgotten engine cleaners, certainly worth a shot. I like the dose you're using and the amount of time you're using it for.

 

[Mystic]

And the Lubegard engine flush is not a solvent. Some here are always against any solvent cleaner. If it seems to be cleaning it might be worth a shot. And still cheaper than some expensive engine cleaners that only seem to raise compression values.

 

[FoxS]

"only seem to increase compression"

LOL

 

[HTSS_TR]

When I tried to use engine cleaner the first time I use 2 oz per 5 quarts sump, after that I use 1 oz in 2-300 mils before oil change as maintenance dose. 15 oz bottle Lubegard engine flush is about $10-12 can be used for up to 10 times, so that cost per oil change is only about $1. At most, you're wasting $10.

If you think 2 oz per 5 quarts sump is too high concentration, then try 1 oz for 100-200 miles and check oil condition every 30-50 miles, if after 200 miles the oil color didn't change much then add 1 more oz and continue for another 100-200 miles before oil change.

 

[Mystic]

It might be time for me to order some of that Lubegard engine flush. I have wanted to give it a try for a long time. I always had good luck with Lubegard products.

 

[antiqueshell]

Is this a "stealth ad" for MMO?

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: FoxS
"only seem to increase compression"

LOL

How can something "seem" to increase compression? It either does or it doesn't.