So true. Problem with a acea C3 is that they absorbe the ethanol from the fuel if you run E10 or higher blend. They are for diesel here in EU. You gonna get sludge from it if you run it in a petrol BMW.
Is BMW LL-04 backward compatible to LL-01 & LL-98
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Originally Posted By: Kaiser
I will not get sludge with LL01 ?
No man, where you got that idea?
I will not get sludge with LL01 ?
No man, where you got that idea?
Why not do what the germans do in old engines and put whatever oil you got in there. Or you plan on it lasting a couple hundred thousand miles yet? Oil is oil.
Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
So true. Problem with a acea C3 is that they absorbe the ethanol from the fuel if you run E10 or higher blend. They are for diesel here in EU. You gonna get sludge from it if you run it in a petrol BMW.
So you advise me to use LL01 over the LL04 in a DI petrol engine ?
So true. Problem with a acea C3 is that they absorbe the ethanol from the fuel if you run E10 or higher blend. They are for diesel here in EU. You gonna get sludge from it if you run it in a petrol BMW.
So you advise me to use LL01 over the LL04 in a DI petrol engine ?
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Kaiser
I will not get sludge with LL01 ?
No man, where you got that idea?
Because I heard that the LL01 is more detergent than the LL04
Originally Posted By: Kaiser
I will not get sludge with LL01 ?
No man, where you got that idea?
Because I heard that the LL01 is more detergent than the LL04
Yees. And i am 100% sure! BTW use a oil like shell helix ultra 5w-40 or Castrol edge 0w-40
Originally Posted By: Kaiser
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Kaiser
I will not get sludge with LL01 ?
No man, where you got that idea?
Because I heard that the LL01 is more detergent than the LL04
An LL-01 oil might have more metallic detergents, i.e. the kind that would show up in a UOA. That doesn't mean it has better detergency.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Kaiser
I will not get sludge with LL01 ?
No man, where you got that idea?
Because I heard that the LL01 is more detergent than the LL04
An LL-01 oil might have more metallic detergents, i.e. the kind that would show up in a UOA. That doesn't mean it has better detergency.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
So true. Problem with a acea C3 is that they absorbe the ethanol from the fuel if you run E10 or higher blend. They are for diesel here in EU. You gonna get sludge from it if you run it in a petrol BMW.
Do we actually have evidence that C3 absorbs ethanol from the fuel? I'm not exactly seeing how that would happen.
Not sure if burning ethanol creates faster TBN depletion, and that's really what is behind this. I know when I ran a 504/507 oil with ethanol and non-ULSG, TBN retention was poor as would be expected, though wear was excellent.
Curious what specifically the mechanism of incompatibility between ethanol and C3 oils is.
So true. Problem with a acea C3 is that they absorbe the ethanol from the fuel if you run E10 or higher blend. They are for diesel here in EU. You gonna get sludge from it if you run it in a petrol BMW.
Do we actually have evidence that C3 absorbs ethanol from the fuel? I'm not exactly seeing how that would happen.
Not sure if burning ethanol creates faster TBN depletion, and that's really what is behind this. I know when I ran a 504/507 oil with ethanol and non-ULSG, TBN retention was poor as would be expected, though wear was excellent.
Curious what specifically the mechanism of incompatibility between ethanol and C3 oils is.
I would agree with your skepticism. I certainly understand the point of TBN depleting quicker with ethanol and non-ULSG and so forth, but E10 is rather ubiquitous, as far as I know, even in Europe. The oil companies don't know that the fuel they produce is hard on the oil, and they, OEMs, and the ACEA have not taken it into consideration?
At least in North America, plenty of data sheets at least pay lip service to ethanol blends, even E85.
At least in North America, plenty of data sheets at least pay lip service to ethanol blends, even E85.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Garak
I would agree with your skepticism. I certainly understand the point of TBN depleting quicker with ethanol and non-ULSG and so forth, but E10 is rather ubiquitous, as far as I know, even in Europe. The oil companies don't know that the fuel they produce is hard on the oil, and they, OEMs, and the ACEA have not taken it into consideration?
At least in North America, plenty of data sheets at least pay lip service to ethanol blends, even E85.
Ash but you still mentioned ethanol and TBN. Do we have real data that indicates it's the ethanol's fault and not the sulfur??
I would agree with your skepticism. I certainly understand the point of TBN depleting quicker with ethanol and non-ULSG and so forth, but E10 is rather ubiquitous, as far as I know, even in Europe. The oil companies don't know that the fuel they produce is hard on the oil, and they, OEMs, and the ACEA have not taken it into consideration?
At least in North America, plenty of data sheets at least pay lip service to ethanol blends, even E85.
Ash but you still mentioned ethanol and TBN. Do we have real data that indicates it's the ethanol's fault and not the sulfur??
I think that would be hard to come by. Ethanol almost certainly has some role, but in comparison to sulfur, which and by how much is another story altogether. Further, how differently would ethanol and sulfur concerns be handled by an oil formulator? Basically, my point is that ethanol is common enough in Europe, as are C3 oils. Are they having problems there with ethanol blended ULSG and C3 oils?
No problems AFAIK, at least not recognised as such. Interesting info from ACEA on cars suitability with E10. (E5 is "normal" fuel over here).
https://www.google.hr/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.acea.be/publications/article/vehicle-compatibility-with-new-fuel-standards&ved=0ahUKEwjyx5KypqvYAhUSaVAKHVFqBRYQFggpMAM&usg=AOvVaw0azC77veGw8K00FbZ3-vq6
https://www.google.hr/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.acea.be/publications/article/vehicle-compatibility-with-new-fuel-standards&ved=0ahUKEwjyx5KypqvYAhUSaVAKHVFqBRYQFggpMAM&usg=AOvVaw0azC77veGw8K00FbZ3-vq6
Yes, and we have enough of it over here, too, that you'd think the oil companies have a clue how to blend for it.
After thinking, with DI engines the fuel is directly injected in the combustion chamber so the valves are not cleaned by the fuel. And you know that the BMW N54 engine has a lot of problems linked to the coking, the air comes from the intercooler and the turbos which are dirty by the oil vapors.
So what ? So I think to avoid or retard this phenomenon you have to use an oil which has a very low NOACK volatility as Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 (NOACK of 5,6%)
The N55 engine has a better PCV system which limits the coking, but anyway I want to use an oil which has a very low NOACK as Mobil 1 ESP 5w30, but.... I don't want to use a 5w30 oil in my engine, I find that the hot viscosity is too low for a engine which warms up like the N55.
Now I use Mobil 1 ESP 0w40 (Noack 8,7%) but If you know an 0w40 oil which has a better NOACK, please let me know
So what ? So I think to avoid or retard this phenomenon you have to use an oil which has a very low NOACK volatility as Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 (NOACK of 5,6%)
The N55 engine has a better PCV system which limits the coking, but anyway I want to use an oil which has a very low NOACK as Mobil 1 ESP 5w30, but.... I don't want to use a 5w30 oil in my engine, I find that the hot viscosity is too low for a engine which warms up like the N55.
Now I use Mobil 1 ESP 0w40 (Noack 8,7%) but If you know an 0w40 oil which has a better NOACK, please let me know
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