Is bigger really better?

[Hootbro]

Wite "rare" exception, 99.999999999999999% of the time, a bigger filter is just a waste of your money. Some small sump Nissan and Chrysler 4 cylinder engines have benefited from needing a bigger filter to overcome sludge issues but the vast majority of us only feel a placebo effect by installing the larger filter.

I have yet to see true studies that showed the bigger filters help.

Another caveat is that if you still are under a new vehicle warranty and have a filter failure that is not spec'd for your application, both the car maker and filter maker can deny warranty claim.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
a bigger filter is just a waste of your money.


With very few exceptions, they all cost the same.

 

[scoobie]

I use the 3323 in the Subaru Impreza 2008. the 3323 Bosch is just 3/4 inch longer than oem, but proportionally is significantly longer. it is still a reasonable distance from the exhaust, also the exhaust has a heat shield around it, and my engine is the NA, so I don't have to worry about the extremely hot exhaust gases that a turbo can generate.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: scoobie
I use the 3323 in the Subaru Impreza 2008.

I responded before th this. You are probably right on the heat thing, after thinking about it. What I would say though is that Subaru's filter is very high quality, probably better than the bosh and I would also say that the filter has gone 9700 miles with a truly good UOA.

But I know what you are saying..I use the longer version of this filter (3323) in my Nissan bc of the same reason U use it.

And now for me its a moot point bc I bought 18 of the black Subie filters bc the new ones are of lesser quality.

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
a bigger filter is just a waste of your money.


With very few exceptions, they all cost the same.


True but I am talking about the silly people that want the extra quart capacity.

If you are wanting a bigger filter to use up that odd left over oil amount from the quart, then have at it.

Three of my vehicles have even quart capacities with the OEM size filter. False economy for me to run around for the bigger filter and extra cost of the oil to get that warm fuzzy feeling sleeping at night effect.


Hootbro

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
a bigger filter is just a waste of your money.


With very few exceptions, they all cost the same.


True but I am talking about the bozo's that want the extra quart capacity.

If you are wanting a bigger filter to use up that odd left over oil amount from the quart, then have at it.


Hootbro


Care to explain why someone who wants to up his oil capacity is a "bozo"?

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac

Care to explain why someone who wants to up his oil capacity is a "bozo"?


No!

I have already stated my reasons in this thread of "my opinion" why I am against oversize filter and oil. My term "bozo" is the label I choose for these people.

I tell you what, I will change "bozo" to "silly people". Better?

 

[scoobie]

no, still not better, how about edit post. that would be better.

 

[greenaccord02]

I don't know, I like being known as a silly bozo. It has a nice ring to it.

 

[Gary Allan]

Hootbro - this is BITOG. Extreme, Full Contact, Lubrication. No sump is too big. No filter is too big. No OCI too short or too long.

 

[greenaccord02]

Well said. Nowhere else does lubrication become an expression of ideology and morals to be battled over. Reputations, hopes and dreams here are made and broken by UOAs and OCIs. A man's prowess is a function of his base oils and add pack.

 

[Colt45ws]

On my cavalier I went to a PH3980 size so I would have a full 4 quarts. It would not take it all other wise. Does not seem like a waste or silly to me. On the vic..eh..PH2-size is big enough and its already at an even 6.

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

Originally Posted By: Hootbro
Wite "rare" exception, 99.999999999999999% of the time, a bigger filter is just a waste of your money. Some small sump Nissan and Chrysler 4 cylinder engines have benefited from needing a bigger filter to overcome sludge issues but the vast majority of us only feel a placebo effect by installing the larger filter.

I have yet to see true studies that showed the bigger filters help.

Another caveat is that if you still are under a new vehicle warranty and have a filter failure that is not spec'd for your application, both the car maker and filter maker can deny warranty claim.


I think your statement about the small sump Nissans and Chryslers benefiting from a higher capacity filter sort of indicates that a larger filter does have benefits to a certain extent.

I don't remember reading anybody saying that his car runs better with a larger filter. Most just like knowing there is more surface area to filter the oil and in some applications they can fit more oil in the engine. I don't think this is a placebo effect. A placebo effect would be if someone starts proclaiming that his car performs better with a larger filter.

You say that there aren't studies that shows a larger filter helps, but I haven't seen any that say they are detrimental either.

I agree though that if someone uses a unspeced filter during warranty that he could potentially be putting his warranty at risk. But I seldom hear engine failures on a new car. And if it's due to a loose/punctured oil filter then there's no one to blame but the installer/nature.

I could care less what size filter you use on your cars but I'm not going to call you a "bozo" or any other borderline derogatory term just because you don't agree with me. And changing the term begrudgingly doesn't change the fact that you said it and still think it.

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

Originally Posted By: Onmo'Eegusee
On my cavalier I went to a PH3980 size so I would have a full 4 quarts. It would not take it all other wise. Does not seem like a waste or silly to me. On the vic..eh..PH2-size is big enough and its already at an even 6.


That would be why I would use a larger filter as well. Of course putting 4 qts instead of 3.5 hasn't hurt anything in my Civic with the normal filter. Someone said that the Purolator L20073 fits my car so I'm on the look out now.

 

[Saab9-3]

I personally added a bigger filter to help combat sludge in my sludge prone engine. Also during track events 2 extra liters cant hurt anything. As stated above I will have a UOA in about a month to see if adding 2 liters change my wear at all ( I also extended this drain).

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac

I think your statement about the small sump Nissans and Chryslers benefiting from a higher capacity filter sort of indicates that a larger filter does have benefits to a certain extent.


Those applications of bigger filter/increased oil capacity were to overcome engineering/design errors to begin with. If you do not have a problem engine, then there is no need to play outhouse oil engineer.

Quote:
I don't remember reading anybody saying that his car runs better with a larger filter. Most just like knowing there is more surface area to filter the oil and in some applications they can fit more oil in the engine. I don't think this is a placebo effect. A placebo effect would be if someone starts proclaiming that his car performs better with a larger filter.


Sounds like OCD.

Quote:
You say that there aren't studies that shows a larger filter helps, but I haven't seen any that say they are detrimental either.


Once again, if you have no data, why even dabble with it? I will reference back to my placebo effect statement.

Quote:
I agree though that if someone uses a unspeced filter during warranty that he could potentially be putting his warranty at risk. But I seldom hear engine failures on a new car. And if it's due to a loose/punctured oil filter then there's no one to blame but the installer/nature.


Sure, you can roll the dice of a non-spec'd filter during warranty, but why add that to the equation "if" you have a install problem?

Quote:
I could care less what size filter you use on your cars but I'm not going to call you a "bozo" or any other borderline derogatory term just because you don't agree with me. And changing the term begrudgingly doesn't change the fact that you said it and still think it.


It is a internet forum. Comments were "tongue in cheek". Do not move to the upper east coast, they will break your stones if you are this sensitive to social commentary.

Your opinion is no more or less valuable than mine and in the end, it is up to others to determine who the real
Warning, Spoiler:
silly person is.

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Hootbro - this is BITOG. Extreme, Full Contact, Lubrication. No sump is too big. No filter is too big. No OCI too short or too long.


I agree.

Religion & politics are easier subjects to debate at times compared to oil threads.

 

[toocrazy2yoo]

I like the difference between the 020 and the 036 filter for my Hyundai, it bumps the capacity to 4.0 from 3.6 quarts. That was I don't have a lousy .4 quarts laying around the garage waiting 6000 miles to be dumped in for top off. Actually, I don't anyway, I just dump it in anyway, even that barely brings it about the full dot. I don't have any love for a bigger filter other than convenience. After this thing is out of warranty, it may go bypass, but in the meantime, I'm staying with the stock-sized filter. I wouldn't mind the bigger filter in order to have larger capacity, say if the filter was large enough to provide me a 5-quart capacity, but no matter.

While it's under warranty, have to stick with spec. Already pushing the point with the long OCI as it is, I see no sense tempting fate with the larger filter, there's no plausible deniability with that.

 

[Fester]

Originally Posted By: asiancivicmaniac
If I use the really oversized filter for my Civic it can hold at least twice the amount of oil that the correct one can hold. Same holds true for my mom's Camry.
I agree I'm always looking for a larger filter for the Civic, since it only has around 3.5 qt of oil in it, I'm using the pure one PL14459 instead of the Honda OEM # 15400PLMA01 which I hear is a Fram in disguise. IMO nothing wrong with using a same spec over sized filter for whatever reason. Tinkering is in my blood, this just one manifestation of it.

 

[Lazy JW]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
a bigger filter is just a waste of your money.


With very few exceptions, they all cost the same.


The extra oil required by using the larger filter is probably "wasted" in any vehicle that is driven primarily on short runs and barely gets up to operating temperature. The larger filter also requires more natural resources to produce.

If I were operating a vehicle primarily on long trips in hot weather I would opt for the largest filter that was practical. Otherwise I prefer stock.
Joe

 

[TallPaul]

As for cooling, ever see those aluminum finned filter wraps? They slip over the filter and hold on with a large hose clamp.

(Maybe we can have a hole in the hood or fender so our extra big filter can stick out to show everyone how big we are. Exhaust pipes are sometimes routed this way for show.)