Is 75k miles really high mileage?
- Thread starter RyanCreasia
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Originally Posted By: RyanCreasia
Given that most of the engines today will live well past 100k or even 200k miles (I got 240k out of a $13k Hyundai that was going strong when I got rid of it after 10yrs) does the 75k mile mark for HM oils really make sense? Is 75k miles still considered high mileage?
I don't believe it is, the 75,000 mile mark is just marketing so the oil companies can make some extra $$ off the sheeple. Don't get me wrong, high mileage oil has its place in burning / leaking engines. I use high mileage in the Uplander (small oil leak) and Buick (small oil leak / 24 years old). In a clean non leaking / buring oil engine I would just use the manufacturer spec.
Given that most of the engines today will live well past 100k or even 200k miles (I got 240k out of a $13k Hyundai that was going strong when I got rid of it after 10yrs) does the 75k mile mark for HM oils really make sense? Is 75k miles still considered high mileage?
I don't believe it is, the 75,000 mile mark is just marketing so the oil companies can make some extra $$ off the sheeple. Don't get me wrong, high mileage oil has its place in burning / leaking engines. I use high mileage in the Uplander (small oil leak) and Buick (small oil leak / 24 years old). In a clean non leaking / buring oil engine I would just use the manufacturer spec.
75K is a reasonable but arbitrary line to create an additional marketplace where none existed before.
What kind of sales would be had if high mileage was 150K or 200K? Not much. 75K is 'seems like it is up there' but well within the mileage of what many Americans might own.
What kind of sales would be had if high mileage was 150K or 200K? Not much. 75K is 'seems like it is up there' but well within the mileage of what many Americans might own.
for an Audi or VW it is
OTOH, 200k isn't high for a Toyota or Honda
OTOH, 200k isn't high for a Toyota or Honda
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
for an Audi or VW it is
OTOH, 200k isn't high for a Toyota or Honda
Agreed. But at 75K Audi's and VW's don't need it because they've usually quit working by then. Something electrical, usually.
Have you ever fished with two rods with illegal bait? Let me help...
for an Audi or VW it is
OTOH, 200k isn't high for a Toyota or Honda
Agreed. But at 75K Audi's and VW's don't need it because they've usually quit working by then. Something electrical, usually.
Have you ever fished with two rods with illegal bait? Let me help...
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I've owned many vehicles and never used a "High Mileage" oil.
It's marketing at it's finest.If it makes you sleep better @ night using it,be my guest
It's marketing at it's finest.If it makes you sleep better @ night using it,be my guest
With a well maintained engine, there is no real need for HM oils, just keep doing what you are doing. In the case of an engine that has had "less than" good maintenance, a HM oil may be helpful to clean up sludge and soften seals. There is no magic mileage. I have never used a HM oil.
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
The answer might be in here at the 27 minute mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXqkOZAkXZw
Here is part of the quote from the video at 27 minutes on, talking about high mileage oils. You can hear more in the video.
Quote:
So with high mileage vehicles, Valvoline did a lot of research with on the road vehicles, we did a lot of research at our engine labs and we came to the general agreement is that 75k miles is where we start noticing some issues that vehicles started obtaining, such as seal leakage, higher emissions, things like that so we formulated our products our Valvoline max life products around that 75k mile interval, we also recommend them for brand new vehicles as well. Its kind of like a preventative maintenance type of schedule.
The answer might be in here at the 27 minute mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXqkOZAkXZw
Here is part of the quote from the video at 27 minutes on, talking about high mileage oils. You can hear more in the video.
Quote:
So with high mileage vehicles, Valvoline did a lot of research with on the road vehicles, we did a lot of research at our engine labs and we came to the general agreement is that 75k miles is where we start noticing some issues that vehicles started obtaining, such as seal leakage, higher emissions, things like that so we formulated our products our Valvoline max life products around that 75k mile interval, we also recommend them for brand new vehicles as well. Its kind of like a preventative maintenance type of schedule.
i agree
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
The answer might be in here at the 27 minute mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXqkOZAkXZw
Here is part of the quote from the video at 27 minutes on, talking about high mileage oils. You can hear more in the video.
Quote:
So with high mileage vehicles, Valvoline did a lot of research with on the road vehicles, we did a lot of research at our engine labs and we came to the general agreement is that 75k miles is where we start noticing some issues that vehicles started obtaining, such as seal leakage, higher emissions, things like that so we formulated our products our Valvoline max life products around that 75k mile interval, we also recommend them for brand new vehicles as well. Its kind of like a preventative maintenance type of schedule.
i agree with that, some people here are just scared of hm oil , i love it
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
The answer might be in here at the 27 minute mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXqkOZAkXZw
Here is part of the quote from the video at 27 minutes on, talking about high mileage oils. You can hear more in the video.
Quote:
So with high mileage vehicles, Valvoline did a lot of research with on the road vehicles, we did a lot of research at our engine labs and we came to the general agreement is that 75k miles is where we start noticing some issues that vehicles started obtaining, such as seal leakage, higher emissions, things like that so we formulated our products our Valvoline max life products around that 75k mile interval, we also recommend them for brand new vehicles as well. Its kind of like a preventative maintenance type of schedule.
i agree with that, some people here are just scared of hm oil , i love it
Let me bring this just because with companies doing everything under the sun to reduce expense under the asset management umbrella, this issue comes up a good bit. Bearing in mind this is for a business metric referenced to life cycling and not anything to do with the actual maintenance of a vehicle but some of the concepts may prove useful.
Seems every company wants to create a human less formula and process to load into SAP, Maximo or whatever EAM program they have to automatically give them a magic number that tells everything.
My take on the OP question is that any number (mileage or hour) is not a good indicator of “high” (or low) anything because the number doesn’t factor in anything that defines the “high” (or low) in terms of anything meaningful or measurable in terms of asset condition so unless you know the operating and maintenance conditions of those (miles/hours) they are nothing more than numbers on a counter. (The exception being establishing a value for loan or tax purposes)
It’s obvious the people on this forum care about their oil and vehicles otherwise they wouldn’t post here so you may want to try this. (Pretty simple in excel)
When I set up an asset for lifecycle measurement I try to set up my scales at least 4 different ways to identify hidden issues or trends because 1 has never been enough to get me conclusive data that I could use.
Cycles (insert miles for a vehicle), actual run hours, physical time (calendar) and environmental (seasons-temps)
It might prove enlightening what these trends might reveal not just in plotting service/maintenance but possibly identifying root causes and predicting failures in time to avoid them.
After all, your vehicle is your “asset” and this method works for all other assets but it does take a little bit of effort but I think all would find it beneficial.
Seems every company wants to create a human less formula and process to load into SAP, Maximo or whatever EAM program they have to automatically give them a magic number that tells everything.
My take on the OP question is that any number (mileage or hour) is not a good indicator of “high” (or low) anything because the number doesn’t factor in anything that defines the “high” (or low) in terms of anything meaningful or measurable in terms of asset condition so unless you know the operating and maintenance conditions of those (miles/hours) they are nothing more than numbers on a counter. (The exception being establishing a value for loan or tax purposes)
It’s obvious the people on this forum care about their oil and vehicles otherwise they wouldn’t post here so you may want to try this. (Pretty simple in excel)
When I set up an asset for lifecycle measurement I try to set up my scales at least 4 different ways to identify hidden issues or trends because 1 has never been enough to get me conclusive data that I could use.
Cycles (insert miles for a vehicle), actual run hours, physical time (calendar) and environmental (seasons-temps)
It might prove enlightening what these trends might reveal not just in plotting service/maintenance but possibly identifying root causes and predicting failures in time to avoid them.
After all, your vehicle is your “asset” and this method works for all other assets but it does take a little bit of effort but I think all would find it beneficial.
Yes, Sir! Thank you for the great reminder and a simple pointer. I remember when we made those plots by hand on millimitre plotting paper. This is your basic and very effective TA [technical analysis]. It is enlightening indeed, when you transpose seemingly unrelated data and see the trends and correlations.
Originally Posted By: jacky
i know its not true now but when i first starting driving 25 years ago i was always told anything over 100k is on its last legs
i have not purchased many cars that i really liked due to high miles
Twenty five years ago, we had around 90K on the Civic Wagon we had bought new in 1986.
It didn't burn or leak oil then and it didn't when we parted with it sometime after 200K.
So, no, decent cars decently maintained weren't on their last legs at 100K twenty five years ago, despite what you may have been told.
i know its not true now but when i first starting driving 25 years ago i was always told anything over 100k is on its last legs
i have not purchased many cars that i really liked due to high miles
Twenty five years ago, we had around 90K on the Civic Wagon we had bought new in 1986.
It didn't burn or leak oil then and it didn't when we parted with it sometime after 200K.
So, no, decent cars decently maintained weren't on their last legs at 100K twenty five years ago, despite what you may have been told.
"HM" IMO is a flexible number.
If you get a short-tripping soccer mom that's done 2 oil changes in 60k and performed maintenance only when something broke, it's high mileage.
If you have someone that bought new and has taken meticulous care of their vehicle, 60k is just getting broken in.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: jacky
i know its not true now but when i first starting driving 25 years ago i was always told anything over 100k is on its last legs
i have not purchased many cars that i really liked due to high miles
Twenty five years ago, we had around 90K on the Civic Wagon we had bought new in 1986.
It didn't burn or leak oil then and it didn't when we parted with it sometime after 200K.
So, no, decent cars decently maintained weren't on their last legs at 100K twenty five years ago, despite what you may have been told.
I had a 1977 Plymouth with a 1974 engine. The engine had 80000 when the previous car was totalled and the engine was moved over. I put another 80000 trouble free miles on it before donating to a local high school shop. It did need a carburetor at that point, but at 160k miles to have zero issues and no maintenance other than fluids and spark plugs tells me it's how you take care of what you have.
If you get a short-tripping soccer mom that's done 2 oil changes in 60k and performed maintenance only when something broke, it's high mileage.
If you have someone that bought new and has taken meticulous care of their vehicle, 60k is just getting broken in.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: jacky
i know its not true now but when i first starting driving 25 years ago i was always told anything over 100k is on its last legs
i have not purchased many cars that i really liked due to high miles
Twenty five years ago, we had around 90K on the Civic Wagon we had bought new in 1986.
It didn't burn or leak oil then and it didn't when we parted with it sometime after 200K.
So, no, decent cars decently maintained weren't on their last legs at 100K twenty five years ago, despite what you may have been told.
I had a 1977 Plymouth with a 1974 engine. The engine had 80000 when the previous car was totalled and the engine was moved over. I put another 80000 trouble free miles on it before donating to a local high school shop. It did need a carburetor at that point, but at 160k miles to have zero issues and no maintenance other than fluids and spark plugs tells me it's how you take care of what you have.
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I use PYB in my Corolla with 226k miles. It doesn't lose any oil. There was a leak from the timing chain tensioner O-ring but I fixed that.
My Rav4 with 267k miles has some seal leaks, front and back. The HM oil (valvoline Max) has cut the leak in half. I hope it stays that way but I fear the seals won't last another 100k miles. That might be what dooms the engine.
My Rav4 with 267k miles has some seal leaks, front and back. The HM oil (valvoline Max) has cut the leak in half. I hope it stays that way but I fear the seals won't last another 100k miles. That might be what dooms the engine.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: jacky
i know its not true now but when i first starting driving 25 years ago i was always told anything over 100k is on its last legs
i have not purchased many cars that i really liked due to high miles
Twenty five years ago, we had around 90K on the Civic Wagon we had bought new in 1986.
It didn't burn or leak oil then and it didn't when we parted with it sometime after 200K.
So, no, decent cars decently maintained weren't on their last legs at 100K twenty five years ago, despite what you may have been told.
25 years ago is 1990. So the average car with 100k miles would have been manufactured around 1982. If people were basing opinions on cars, especially American cars, manufactured in the late 70s, they would be correct that there were many cars with 100k miles that were on their last legs.
I'm still not convinced it's the mileage but rather the age of the car that makes it high mileage. I'm thinking that the seals leaking is a function of time and not mileage.
Originally Posted By: jacky
i know its not true now but when i first starting driving 25 years ago i was always told anything over 100k is on its last legs
i have not purchased many cars that i really liked due to high miles
Twenty five years ago, we had around 90K on the Civic Wagon we had bought new in 1986.
It didn't burn or leak oil then and it didn't when we parted with it sometime after 200K.
So, no, decent cars decently maintained weren't on their last legs at 100K twenty five years ago, despite what you may have been told.
25 years ago is 1990. So the average car with 100k miles would have been manufactured around 1982. If people were basing opinions on cars, especially American cars, manufactured in the late 70s, they would be correct that there were many cars with 100k miles that were on their last legs.
I'm still not convinced it's the mileage but rather the age of the car that makes it high mileage. I'm thinking that the seals leaking is a function of time and not mileage.
Originally Posted By: Leo99
I'm still not convinced it's the mileage but rather the age of the car that makes it high mileage. I'm thinking that the seals leaking is a function of time and not mileage.
I think it is all over the map and you may be correct. My BMW (the oldest of the bunch) leaked from every seal, gasket and o-ring that it could possibly leak from, I literally have replaced nearly everything but the head gaskets and the rear main seal (which leaks a little). It leaked coolant, oil, transmission fluid, differential fluid, brake fluid, power steering fluid, air and gasoline.
My two Toyotas generally don't leak anything except for the valve cover gaskets on the Sienna. Those have been replaced numerous times in an attempt to keep it dry. But besides that both of the cars have been leak-free for their whole life.
The Accord likes to leak from the valve cover gasket but not at as great a frequency as my Sienna. Other than that it is dry.
I'm still not convinced it's the mileage but rather the age of the car that makes it high mileage. I'm thinking that the seals leaking is a function of time and not mileage.
I think it is all over the map and you may be correct. My BMW (the oldest of the bunch) leaked from every seal, gasket and o-ring that it could possibly leak from, I literally have replaced nearly everything but the head gaskets and the rear main seal (which leaks a little). It leaked coolant, oil, transmission fluid, differential fluid, brake fluid, power steering fluid, air and gasoline.
My two Toyotas generally don't leak anything except for the valve cover gaskets on the Sienna. Those have been replaced numerous times in an attempt to keep it dry. But besides that both of the cars have been leak-free for their whole life.
The Accord likes to leak from the valve cover gasket but not at as great a frequency as my Sienna. Other than that it is dry.
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