Now who is the OEM supplier when Dexcool was first developed?
Interesting read on coolants
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I don't believe that is the patent to Texaco's Dexcool but just an earlier precursor. All coolant meeting Dexcool specification have 2EHA. Texaco Dexcool contains 2EHA and sebacic and not benzoate and nitrates like this patent does.
If someone knows Texaco's Dexcool patent number that would be good.
If someone knows Texaco's Dexcool patent number that would be good.
Also I want to bring up a point in engine design. Large Diesel engines have a cast block with a separate machined cylinder liner that is slipped into the block and is sealed by the close tolerances of the block to the cylinder sleeve. In the rebuild of the Mack Truck engine I was a part of when I worked for a trucking company, I actually saw the sleeves being slid into the block. To do this they had to put a heater on the block and freeze the cylinder liners to slide them into the block. Once the temp was equilibrated the cylinder liner was fixed into place. This interference fit makes the coolant anticorrosion capacity much more important because a point of failure in a large diesel engine is that joint. The head gasket is not a seal at that point.
Automobile gasoline engines on the other hand cast the block and cylinder lining as one piece. So corrosion between the block and cylinder lining is just not that important. This said there is no reason a coolant spec'd for a diesel would not work in a gasoline engine. It (any diesel coolant) should actually be more resistant to corrosion than an equivalent gasoline engine coolant not cleared for use long term in a diesel engine.
Automobile gasoline engines on the other hand cast the block and cylinder lining as one piece. So corrosion between the block and cylinder lining is just not that important. This said there is no reason a coolant spec'd for a diesel would not work in a gasoline engine. It (any diesel coolant) should actually be more resistant to corrosion than an equivalent gasoline engine coolant not cleared for use long term in a diesel engine.
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't believe that is the patent to Texaco's Dexcool but just an earlier precursor. All coolant meeting Dexcool specification have 2EHA. Texaco Dexcool contains 2EHA and sebacic and not benzoate and nitrates like this patent does.
If someone knows Texaco's Dexcool patent number that would be good.
That patent in a prior post is what Caterpillar's ELC-1 engine coolant is based on. I never said that the patent had anything to do with Dexcool. Still looking for the Dexcool patent itself using google. That is how I dropped the patent on Texaco for the ELC-1 coolant because I know that Texaco now Chevron/Texaco is Caterpillar's supplier for chemicals. They had to have developed this originally.
Now who is the original OEM GM supplier of Dexcool? If I know this I might be able to find that patent as well. If they (GM) have had other suppliers that information is also important.
Also for G-05 coolant do we know who the original formulator for this coolant is?
Also additional patent information on other specialty coolants are also of use here if they are from an original supplier/formulator of the coolant. If anyone knows of this I might be able to find those patents as well.
As for the old silicate/phosphate coolants there are numerous patents on the subject but there is IMHO no debate about this particular coolant type. In automobiles, if you have this coolant continue to use it with 2 year/24K miles length of service with what ever comes first between coolant changes.
The reason for the patents is that the formulations are spelled out in them to protect the chemistry. An MSDS sheet by law only needs to contain information if the chemicals in the formulation in the MSDS are toxic, mutagenic, teratogenic, radioactive, or otherwise flamible, explosive, or dangerous in large quantities. Many times exact formulations are considered trade secrets and are obfuscated in MSDS sheets.
I don't believe that is the patent to Texaco's Dexcool but just an earlier precursor. All coolant meeting Dexcool specification have 2EHA. Texaco Dexcool contains 2EHA and sebacic and not benzoate and nitrates like this patent does.
If someone knows Texaco's Dexcool patent number that would be good.
That patent in a prior post is what Caterpillar's ELC-1 engine coolant is based on. I never said that the patent had anything to do with Dexcool. Still looking for the Dexcool patent itself using google. That is how I dropped the patent on Texaco for the ELC-1 coolant because I know that Texaco now Chevron/Texaco is Caterpillar's supplier for chemicals. They had to have developed this originally.
Now who is the original OEM GM supplier of Dexcool? If I know this I might be able to find that patent as well. If they (GM) have had other suppliers that information is also important.
Also for G-05 coolant do we know who the original formulator for this coolant is?
Also additional patent information on other specialty coolants are also of use here if they are from an original supplier/formulator of the coolant. If anyone knows of this I might be able to find those patents as well.
As for the old silicate/phosphate coolants there are numerous patents on the subject but there is IMHO no debate about this particular coolant type. In automobiles, if you have this coolant continue to use it with 2 year/24K miles length of service with what ever comes first between coolant changes.
The reason for the patents is that the formulations are spelled out in them to protect the chemistry. An MSDS sheet by law only needs to contain information if the chemicals in the formulation in the MSDS are toxic, mutagenic, teratogenic, radioactive, or otherwise flamible, explosive, or dangerous in large quantities. Many times exact formulations are considered trade secrets and are obfuscated in MSDS sheets.
Texaco was the original supplier of Dexcool to GM. For awhile Texaco was the only Dexcool available and was everywhere. Later Prestone and Zerex patent their own tweaked versions. I'm not sure if Texaco actually held the first patent for the Texaco extended life coolant aka Dexcool. It may have originally been developed in Europe, and Texaco had licenses to use it but I'm not sure on that. G-05 might have been develop by BASF, but I'm not really sure about that either.
I'm obviously no chemist but this looks like the Texaco(Dex-cool) Patent 5,269,956 to me:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5269956
I know GM is owner of the name Dex-cool.
I'm not sure who is the supplier for GM now.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5269956
I know GM is owner of the name Dex-cool.
I'm not sure who is the supplier for GM now.
Originally Posted By: 3311
I'm obviously no chemist but this looks like the Texaco(Dex-cool) Patent 5,269,956 to me:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5269956
I know GM is owner of the name Dex-cool.
I'm not sure who is the supplier for GM now.
Checked the patent you list. The patent deals with anticorrosive formulation but not directly with coolant formulations.
The patent I list above does.
I'm obviously no chemist but this looks like the Texaco(Dex-cool) Patent 5,269,956 to me:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5269956
I know GM is owner of the name Dex-cool.
I'm not sure who is the supplier for GM now.
Checked the patent you list. The patent deals with anticorrosive formulation but not directly with coolant formulations.
The patent I list above does.
Originally Posted By: 3311
How about Texaco patent 4,759,864? I don't think we will find the "Dex-cool" patent because that is a trade name belonging to GM that may have licensed later.
You are correct. Dexcool as a trade name came later. However the patent you list probably is the formulation of Dexcool in its original form. It would be interesting to check if this patent is cross referenced against new work (ie patents). This is the type of patent that is a formulation patent.
On another note to see the full .tiff images you need to install a 3rd party tiff viewer for IE or your choice of web browser.
How about Texaco patent 4,759,864? I don't think we will find the "Dex-cool" patent because that is a trade name belonging to GM that may have licensed later.
You are correct. Dexcool as a trade name came later. However the patent you list probably is the formulation of Dexcool in its original form. It would be interesting to check if this patent is cross referenced against new work (ie patents). This is the type of patent that is a formulation patent.
On another note to see the full .tiff images you need to install a 3rd party tiff viewer for IE or your choice of web browser.
Patents are hard to find without the exact patent number. If you guys are just trying to figure out the formula of Texaco Extended Life (Dexcool) and other brands of Dexcool, Texaco is 2EHA and sebacic. See Table 1B http://www.google.com/patents?id=NZcFAAA...ant&f=false. It also list the formulation for some of GM's older coolant specs. Although table 1C is not the current formulation for Prestone.
Prestone Dexcool is 2EHA and sodium neodeconoate is the secondary organic acid inhibitor used. Zerex Dexcool I believe is 2EHA and molybdate. Texaco was the original supplier for GM factory fill but I'm not sure about now. ACDelco Dexcool is not necessarily GM factory fill and some of it is Prestone Dexcool.
I would really like to know the patent number of Peak Global. We don't know what the patent number is or who even applied for the patent. All that's known about Global is it contains benzoate which is not the most effective organic acid inhibitor and no 2EHA.
Prestone Dexcool is 2EHA and sodium neodeconoate is the secondary organic acid inhibitor used. Zerex Dexcool I believe is 2EHA and molybdate. Texaco was the original supplier for GM factory fill but I'm not sure about now. ACDelco Dexcool is not necessarily GM factory fill and some of it is Prestone Dexcool.
I would really like to know the patent number of Peak Global. We don't know what the patent number is or who even applied for the patent. All that's known about Global is it contains benzoate which is not the most effective organic acid inhibitor and no 2EHA.
Peak patents are very difficult to find. The old containers of green used to have a number on them, I think that's been eliminated with the new ones. I've never seen anything mentioned on Peak Long Life or Peak Global.
On top of that Peak, or Old World Industries or whatever their company name really is, probably isn't even the original formulator or patent holder. I can't find one patent for Old World Industires, but I see plenty for Texaco/Chevron, Zerex (Ashland), and even Prestone.
I think that Texaco was in the fore front of the technological change in coolants to supplant the old style silicate/phosphate technology. Due to time constraints I have personally, I will be willing to look at what you all find but cannot spend extensive hours searching for the answers. If we can find the original formulation patents like the ELC-1 coolant one, it would make it easier to say this is why based on this original patent and patents citing it as to why we make this decision. I found the Texaco patent 4587028 interesting because I have seen this exact formulation somewhere in Caterpillar's documentation. If we can spot these maybe it will help me to shed more light on what these coolants actually contain and therefore help decide what truely is the best technology based off of the actual chemistry. It was also interesting that the patent writers actually pointed to the actual formulations that worked the best in 4587028. That type of information is gold.
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For the layman: I just wish I knew if 2-eha was causing my water pump gasket to leak prematurely?
I'm ignorant though. It is a 1992 vehicle that took 'conventional green' back then.
I'm ignorant though. It is a 1992 vehicle that took 'conventional green' back then.
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
For the layman: I just wish I knew if 2-eha was causing my water pump gasket to leak prematurely?
I'm ignorant though. It is a 1992 vehicle that took 'conventional green' back then.
I would assume the seal was rubber not plastic. 2-EHA effects plastic and not rubber.
For the layman: I just wish I knew if 2-eha was causing my water pump gasket to leak prematurely?
I'm ignorant though. It is a 1992 vehicle that took 'conventional green' back then.
I would assume the seal was rubber not plastic. 2-EHA effects plastic and not rubber.
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
For the layman: I just wish I knew if 2-eha was causing my water pump gasket to leak prematurely?
I'm ignorant though. It is a 1992 vehicle that took 'conventional green' back then.
I would assume the seal was rubber not plastic. 2-EHA effects plastic and not rubber.
Gotcha.
What was the 'original green' coolant back then like and what is the similar equivalent offerings today? Peak Global? OR like the Beck Arnley "Green Conventional"?
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/2797/greenconcentrate.png
I'd like to convert to extended-life HG Type-II blue...but...
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
For the layman: I just wish I knew if 2-eha was causing my water pump gasket to leak prematurely?
I'm ignorant though. It is a 1992 vehicle that took 'conventional green' back then.
I would assume the seal was rubber not plastic. 2-EHA effects plastic and not rubber.
Gotcha.
What was the 'original green' coolant back then like and what is the similar equivalent offerings today? Peak Global? OR like the Beck Arnley "Green Conventional"?
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/2797/greenconcentrate.png
I'd like to convert to extended-life HG Type-II blue...but...
I use Mopar antifreeze.
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
For the layman: I just wish I knew if 2-eha was causing my water pump gasket to leak prematurely?
I'm ignorant though. It is a 1992 vehicle that took 'conventional green' back then.
I would assume the seal was rubber not plastic. 2-EHA effects plastic and not rubber.
Gotcha.
What was the 'original green' coolant back then like and what is the similar equivalent offerings today? Peak Global? OR like the Beck Arnley "Green Conventional"?
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/2797/greenconcentrate.png
I'd like to convert to extended-life HG Type-II blue...but...
Original green is still avialable or a formula close enough with Peak original green and Zerex green. New organic acid coolant inhibitors and not just 2-EHA could be more agressive with some plastics or "rubber" as plastics and synthetic rubber are both polymers. I doubt 2-EHA or Dexcool would deteriote waterpump seals. Actually Dexcool being low in abrasives is consider easier on waterpump seals than oldr coolants.
Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
For the layman: I just wish I knew if 2-eha was causing my water pump gasket to leak prematurely?
I'm ignorant though. It is a 1992 vehicle that took 'conventional green' back then.
I would assume the seal was rubber not plastic. 2-EHA effects plastic and not rubber.
Gotcha.
What was the 'original green' coolant back then like and what is the similar equivalent offerings today? Peak Global? OR like the Beck Arnley "Green Conventional"?
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/2797/greenconcentrate.png
I'd like to convert to extended-life HG Type-II blue...but...
Original green is still avialable or a formula close enough with Peak original green and Zerex green. New organic acid coolant inhibitors and not just 2-EHA could be more agressive with some plastics or "rubber" as plastics and synthetic rubber are both polymers. I doubt 2-EHA or Dexcool would deteriote waterpump seals. Actually Dexcool being low in abrasives is consider easier on waterpump seals than oldr coolants.
^Thats the thing though, I got what most say is garbage AM/AM Extended Life Prestone 50/50 premix stuff.
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