Interesting GM 2.7 Turbomax failure and tear down

[hemioiler]

Yes it looks overcomplicated- might have lived if Jap or German, coming from GM........still can't build a world class 4 cyl.

Like the "Jap" engine in the new Tundra where they need to replace it in every truck? Or does your theory only apply to 4 cylinders at this point.

 

[JTK]

That was my thinking, ran low on oil. Either it was slurping it away due to being babied, or it had a "normal" consumption and the owner never checked the level....

I was expecting to see stuck oil control rings, but they weren't. It could have been consuming oil some other way though. It really didn't look like a terribly neglected engine, although I doubt there's many approaching 150K miles at this point.

 

[supton]

I was expecting to see stuck oil control rings, but they weren't. It could have been consuming oil some other way though. It really didn't look like a terribly neglected engine, although I doubt there's many approaching 150K miles at this point.

You're right, I'm thinking of a different teardown probably. Forgot that the rings were in good shape here.

Pretty hefty bore wear. What about fuel dilution and being flogged? Once scored, it might have started using oil--those bearings looked like an oiling issue.

 

[JTK]

You're right, I'm thinking of a different teardown probably. Forgot that the rings were in good shape here.

Pretty hefty bore wear. What about fuel dilution and being flogged? Once scored, it might have started using oil--those bearings looked like an oiling issue.

That's all I can think of is that high pressure fuel pump must have been dumping fuel into the crankcase. Given the miles on the thing, it must have rarely cooled off, so all that fuel would vaporize and get sucked up by the PCV system as opposed to over filling the crankcase. It had to have had issues running well, malfunction lights and codes present for awhile before failure you'd think.

My thoughts are this was a preventable failure and not something beyond control.

 

[Jetronic]

I watched the video the other day and thought about posting it. That engine did not hold up well. His observation that the cam lobe with the worst damage is adjacent to the HP fuel pump is interesting. What bothered me most was the cylinder scoring and piston skirt wear. That is long term wear.

The entire engine was trashed. I did a brief search and did not find any very high mile examples of the 2.7L 4. With the highest mile example I found at 175K.

Piston skirt wear (and cylinders developping shiny areas, if not scoring) as well as the upper conrod shell having wear is typical these days for most engines, especially turbo. Obligatory question, what oil grade would be used in these?

 

[CKN]

Yes it looks overcomplicated- might have lived if Jap or German, coming from GM........still can't build a world class 4 cyl.

The motor in the Tundra is primarily made in Alabama.......

 

[dogememe]

If I was picking a new gas truck it would be a Sierra 1500 with this engine.

 

[dfarr67]

Like the "Jap" engine in the new Tundra where they need to replace it in every truck? Or does your theory only apply to 4 cylinders at this point.

for 4 cylinders- there's a reason I reach for Honda and a 6-speed manual.

 

[Randol]

And second thought; I find it concerning how many examples of broken engines we can find these days, where they're running roller lifters. It happens to hemi, pentastar, cummins, this 2.7, the ford 7.3 (and presumably 6.8), the two GM v8s (5.3 and 6.2) and probably a bunch more but these are "stuck in my head" as they are the engines I've researched the most and either owned or been interested in purchasing at some point.

Is there something about roller lifters that we can't seem to reliably build these anymore?

Sure seems like a common thread. It seems like we used to be able to make better cams/lifters or is it the oil? I'm sure there are a lot of theories.

 

[supton]

Piston skirt wear (and cylinders developping shiny areas, if not scoring) as well as the upper conrod shell having wear is typical these days for most engines, especially turbo. Obligatory question, what oil grade would be used in these?

That seems wrong--seems like wear that would result in loss of compression and oil consumption. All things wear out I know, and yesteryear's motors did no better: but it seemed like for a couple of decades we had motors that avoided this.

I get it, this engine went the required distance, and the owner simply drove too much per year. But if this is the new norm it just seems like we are going backwards.

 

[Jetronic]

That seems wrong--seems like wear that would result in loss of compression and oil consumption. All things wear out I know, and yesteryear's motors did no better: but it seemed like for a couple of decades we had motors that avoided this.

I get it, this engine went the required distance, and the owner simply drove too much per year. But if this is the new norm it just seems like we are going backwards.

IDK, 150k is fine on a 20 year old motor, as at 7.5k it was likely short tripped a lot. But in 6 years, it should be just about broken in.

I see it requires 5W30 dexos, I wonder if it would have done better on 5w30 c3 or A4/B5

 

[jghall00]

IDK, 150k is fine on a 20 year old motor, as at 7.5k it was likely short tripped a lot. But in 6 years, it should be just about broken in.

I see it requires 5W30 dexos, I wonder if it would have done better on 5w30 c3 or A4/B5

If the issue was running low or excessive fuel dilution the only thing that would have saved it is more frequent changes. Depending on the quantity hitting the oil, it's probably unlikely longer trips would help since it would just dump even more fuel into the oil.

I asked Gemini about fueling issues on the engine and it said there have been issues with the HPFP and injectors, the latter of which included a TSB.

 

[Lawnman23]

What is the recommended oil for the 2.7? And would you run it, or something else?

Looks like 6 quarts of 5W-30 is the OE fill on the 2.7, if that’s what you’re asking.

 

[Jetronic]

If the issue was running low or excessive fuel dilution the only thing that would have saved it is more frequent changes. Depending on the quantity hitting the oil, it's probably unlikely longer trips would help since it would just dump even more fuel into the oil.

I asked Gemini about fueling issues on the engine and it said there have been issues with the HPFP and injectors, the latter of which included a TSB.

I didn't watch the video, but me and supton weren't talking about the headshot that killed it, but the stage 4 cancer it has and shares with a lot of other engine teardowns.

 

[Nessism1]

Looks like 6 quarts of 5W-30 is the OE fill on the 2.7, if that’s what you’re asking.

I'm not one of the thickies here, but it seems that those cam lobes are quite skinny, so 0W-40 might be a good play with this engine?

 

[supton]

IDK, 150k is fine on a 20 year old motor, as at 7.5k it was likely short tripped a lot. But in 6 years, it should be just about broken in.

That's the thing, to me, that's six years of driving (at one point in my life 5 years). I would not be happy. Maybe if the engine swap was a grand or two... but it's not.

Most would be furious if a turbo popped at 150k and they were facing a kilobuck repair. I have no idea what this engine replacement cost though.

 

[Jetronic]

That's the thing, to me, that's six years of driving (at one point in my life 5 years). I would not be happy. Maybe if the engine swap was a grand or two... but it's not.

Most would be furious if a turbo popped at 150k and they were facing a kilobuck repair. I have no idea what this engine replacement cost though.

I can buy a brand new engine for my MG for less than $1k, it's something I looked into before buying. I'm sure it's a lot more from the dealer though.

 

[OVERKILL]

for 4 cylinders- there's a reason I reach for Honda and a 6-speed manual.

Like their sweet 1.5L that "makes oil" by dumping fuel into it?

 

[Nessism1]

Like their sweet 1.5L that "makes oil" by dumping fuel into it?

Your spending too much time online. The Honda 1.5T engine is excellent. Proven by owners with hundreds of thousands of miles on them.

 

[OVERKILL]

Your spending too much time online. The Honda 1.5T engine is excellent. Proven by owners with hundreds of thousands of miles on them.

"You're".

https://www.classaction.org/news/ho...ra-compression-and-heat-causing-coolant-leaks
https://www.slashgear.com/1689910/honda-engines-with-oil-dilution-problems/
https://www.reuters.com/article/bus...ina-after-recall-plan-rejected-idUSKCN1GE1P7/

"BEIJING (Reuters) - Japan's Honda Motor Co <7267.T> has halted new sales of CR-V crossovers in China and may have to do the same with its Civic model after a Chinese watchdog rejected the automaker's plan to recall 350,000 of the cars to fix a problem."

There were a ton of issues with the 1.5L, so much so that the Chinese government intervened on the ones "making oil" with fuel. This is primarily a cold climate problem (the person I am responding to is in Alberta, a cold climate), something you folks in California likely aren't familiar with, unless you've lived elsewhere.