4WD
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Broc or Cline jump in ... are they phos treated ... we used to call things parco luberized?
Inside Mobil1's Testing & Lab set-up, Annual Prot
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Nice video
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: deven
Kinda like how these cams are kinda black
I was talking about the ringlands, on the pistons. Keeping camshafts "not black" isn't an issue. Pistons, OTOH, are a weak spot for 20k oil change intervals, seeing 350F+ degrees regularly. Does anybody think the pistons seen in the video are too deposited-up? If doing the Annual Prot 20k OCI's, then maybe do a 3,000 mile cleaning OCI every 2 or 3 years.
Those were the competitors oil I believe. The test were run with M1 AP in three engines and the rest were competitors oil all for 120K at 20K OCIs. It would have been interesting to compare the difference.
Originally Posted By: deven
Kinda like how these cams are kinda black
I was talking about the ringlands, on the pistons. Keeping camshafts "not black" isn't an issue. Pistons, OTOH, are a weak spot for 20k oil change intervals, seeing 350F+ degrees regularly. Does anybody think the pistons seen in the video are too deposited-up? If doing the Annual Prot 20k OCI's, then maybe do a 3,000 mile cleaning OCI every 2 or 3 years.
Those were the competitors oil I believe. The test were run with M1 AP in three engines and the rest were competitors oil all for 120K at 20K OCIs. It would have been interesting to compare the difference.
tig1, Hope you're right about the pistons being off some non-M1 engine.
I'd probably run the M1 Annual Protection at 15k/1-year tops, just to be sure ring-sticking didn't start to happen.
I mean, its tough to clean the gunk out of those ringlands once its in there. And you don't even know its getting bad until
you start to burn oil.
I'd probably run the M1 Annual Protection at 15k/1-year tops, just to be sure ring-sticking didn't start to happen.
I mean, its tough to clean the gunk out of those ringlands once its in there. And you don't even know its getting bad until
you start to burn oil.
This came off the Lexus di-turbo. I'd like to think this is non-M1 oil:
Is this OK for 120,000 miles on whatever oil this is?
Is this OK for 120,000 miles on whatever oil this is?
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
There is a piston on the table … it’s not the toasted marshmallow there … but looks like 120k in a TDI leaves some char-bon
Not sure what basis there is for comparison since the engines did not need to be torn down otherwise …
Not sure what basis there is for comparison since the engines did not need to be torn down otherwise …
Here is a failing piston result (Sequence IIIG) from Amsoil testing another oil, not theirs:
Originally Posted By: 4WD
There is a piston on the table … it’s not the toasted marshmallow there … but looks like 120k in a TDI leaves some char-bon
Not sure what basis there is for comparison since the engines did not need to be torn down otherwise …
This one might be a little better (from the video):
We hardly ever see ringlands on high miles vehicles, so I'm not sure what it takes to get stuck rings.
There is a piston on the table … it’s not the toasted marshmallow there … but looks like 120k in a TDI leaves some char-bon
Not sure what basis there is for comparison since the engines did not need to be torn down otherwise …
This one might be a little better (from the video):
We hardly ever see ringlands on high miles vehicles, so I'm not sure what it takes to get stuck rings.
Idea for Mobil and GM: Enter an option on the OLM, using the touchscreen, to state "I'm using M1 Ann Prot" and get the OLM to stretch the OCI.
Mobil already works with GM quite a bit, both in production cars and racing
( https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/2...gy-Relationship ), so why not promote the
product by doing this?
Of course, GM might not want all that DI-produced soot to wear out the timing chains at high-miles OCI's.
Mobil already works with GM quite a bit, both in production cars and racing
( https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/2...gy-Relationship ), so why not promote the
product by doing this?
Of course, GM might not want all that DI-produced soot to wear out the timing chains at high-miles OCI's.
Okay. I'm just going to come out and say it...
You should be very careful of videos like this. They have dragged this poor, unsuspecting sap off the street to tell you what is in essence, a pre-scripted, 'approved' story. This story conveys a message that they want you to swallow whole and not challenge. This is in essence, ADVERTISING dressed up in technical clothing.
A more critical reviewer might has opened by saying that 'Annual Protection' in itself isn't a big deal. Outside of the US, annual oil changes (consistent with the OEM's recommendation) are very much the norm. My car has a 12,500 mile recommended OCI. If it took me a year to accumulate 12.5k miles, then the car would get one oil change per year. It's been several years since I looked but I seem to recall a few OEMs pushing 18,000 mile OCIs on motorway-muncher fleet cars. He might even have asked quite reasonably, if the oil can do 20k miles in one year, might it be good for 10k miles per year for two years?
The next thing he might have asked for is proof positive that some of the 'visibly compelling' screening tests actually correlate with something meaningful. The spinning-disc test is a derivation of a test for jet engines; not the humble ICE! Had he asked, he might have found the ensuing silence informative. From this, he might have correctly deduced that if you want to sell an engine oil based on a stupidly expensive base oil like PAO and very expensive HSD VII, then reality is your enemy, not your friend. Which is why so many of these tests exist. They are tests purposely & solely designed to DIFFERENTIATE. On these tests, both PAOs & Esters show themselves up in an extremely favourable light. However, if the comparison is the totality of a car engine run under normal, everyday conditions...well then things become far less clear cut.
And yes, THAT piston...bit yucky wasn't it? Was it from the Lexus mileage accumulation tests or not? No-one seemed to want to say anything other than it was 'within limits'.
So is M1 AP a good oil? Yes, it's an excellent oil. Is it THAT special relative to any other full PAO oil? IMHO, probably not. Would I personally use it over a much cheaper Group II oil if I did 5k miles a year of normal driving? No. Would I personally use it over a cheaper Group III oil if I did 10k miles a year? No. If I did 20k miles a year, would I use one lot of M1 AP for the full 20k or two lots of Group III oil for 10k each? Personally, I'd go for two lots of 10k. These are not unreasonable questions to be asking.
You should be very careful of videos like this. They have dragged this poor, unsuspecting sap off the street to tell you what is in essence, a pre-scripted, 'approved' story. This story conveys a message that they want you to swallow whole and not challenge. This is in essence, ADVERTISING dressed up in technical clothing.
A more critical reviewer might has opened by saying that 'Annual Protection' in itself isn't a big deal. Outside of the US, annual oil changes (consistent with the OEM's recommendation) are very much the norm. My car has a 12,500 mile recommended OCI. If it took me a year to accumulate 12.5k miles, then the car would get one oil change per year. It's been several years since I looked but I seem to recall a few OEMs pushing 18,000 mile OCIs on motorway-muncher fleet cars. He might even have asked quite reasonably, if the oil can do 20k miles in one year, might it be good for 10k miles per year for two years?
The next thing he might have asked for is proof positive that some of the 'visibly compelling' screening tests actually correlate with something meaningful. The spinning-disc test is a derivation of a test for jet engines; not the humble ICE! Had he asked, he might have found the ensuing silence informative. From this, he might have correctly deduced that if you want to sell an engine oil based on a stupidly expensive base oil like PAO and very expensive HSD VII, then reality is your enemy, not your friend. Which is why so many of these tests exist. They are tests purposely & solely designed to DIFFERENTIATE. On these tests, both PAOs & Esters show themselves up in an extremely favourable light. However, if the comparison is the totality of a car engine run under normal, everyday conditions...well then things become far less clear cut.
And yes, THAT piston...bit yucky wasn't it? Was it from the Lexus mileage accumulation tests or not? No-one seemed to want to say anything other than it was 'within limits'.
So is M1 AP a good oil? Yes, it's an excellent oil. Is it THAT special relative to any other full PAO oil? IMHO, probably not. Would I personally use it over a much cheaper Group II oil if I did 5k miles a year of normal driving? No. Would I personally use it over a cheaper Group III oil if I did 10k miles a year? No. If I did 20k miles a year, would I use one lot of M1 AP for the full 20k or two lots of Group III oil for 10k each? Personally, I'd go for two lots of 10k. These are not unreasonable questions to be asking.
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Oh, and while we're on the subject of 'good questions to ask'...
One might ask whether THAT piston would look quite so yucky had they run their accumulated 120k miles on a cheap, properly formulated (ie non-ILSAC compliant), low Noack, VII-free, Group II/III 10W20 oil? I suspect the answer is no!
One might also ask whether, taking EVERYTHING into account, the 10W20 route is fundamentally 'greener' and better for the environment than M1 AP? I rather suspect it is.
One might ask whether THAT piston would look quite so yucky had they run their accumulated 120k miles on a cheap, properly formulated (ie non-ILSAC compliant), low Noack, VII-free, Group II/III 10W20 oil? I suspect the answer is no!
One might also ask whether, taking EVERYTHING into account, the 10W20 route is fundamentally 'greener' and better for the environment than M1 AP? I rather suspect it is.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Did they zoom in on intake ports? he made reference to the inspection crew looking at things the oil lubes
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
One might also ask whether, taking EVERYTHING into account, the 10W20 route is fundamentally 'greener' and better for the environment than M1 AP? I rather suspect it is.
You should know very well that how "green" a product is considered to be is delineated by a couple checks in a couple rather narrow boxes.
A 1% improvement in fuel economy clearly is far more important than burning litres of oil. And, a 20,000 mile OCI is always greener, irrespective of the top ups necessary.
One might also ask whether, taking EVERYTHING into account, the 10W20 route is fundamentally 'greener' and better for the environment than M1 AP? I rather suspect it is.
You should know very well that how "green" a product is considered to be is delineated by a couple checks in a couple rather narrow boxes.
A 1% improvement in fuel economy clearly is far more important than burning litres of oil. And, a 20,000 mile OCI is always greener, irrespective of the top ups necessary.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
One might also ask whether, taking EVERYTHING into account, the 10W20 route is fundamentally 'greener' and better for the environment than M1 AP? I rather suspect it is.
You should know very well that how "green" a product is considered to be is delineated by a couple checks in a couple rather narrow boxes.
A 1% improvement in fuel economy clearly is far more important than burning litres of oil. And, a 20,000 mile OCI is always greener, irrespective of the top ups necessary.
I used to drive past one of ten Maersk container ships - took a while to drive past since they were the largest ever built. Every time I’d have to think about how “green” this “global economy” is not … we should be thinking more about China and I mean doing less business with them …
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
One might also ask whether, taking EVERYTHING into account, the 10W20 route is fundamentally 'greener' and better for the environment than M1 AP? I rather suspect it is.
You should know very well that how "green" a product is considered to be is delineated by a couple checks in a couple rather narrow boxes.
A 1% improvement in fuel economy clearly is far more important than burning litres of oil. And, a 20,000 mile OCI is always greener, irrespective of the top ups necessary.
I used to drive past one of ten Maersk container ships - took a while to drive past since they were the largest ever built. Every time I’d have to think about how “green” this “global economy” is not … we should be thinking more about China and I mean doing less business with them …
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: deven
Kinda like how these cams are kinda black
I was talking about the ringlands, on the pistons. Keeping camshafts "not black" isn't an issue. Pistons, OTOH, are a weak spot for 20k oil change intervals, seeing 350F+ degrees regularly. Does anybody think the pistons seen in the video are too deposited-up? If doing the Annual Prot 20k OCI's, then maybe do a 3,000 mile cleaning OCI every 2 or 3 years.
Do manufacturers use any kind of coating or process in that area of the piston? I know that piston skirts are sometimes moly coated or some other process but I am not sure about the ringland area.
There are coatings available in the aftermarket. I am not sure if anyone is using them in a production engine, but it would not surprise me.
http://www.jepistons.com/TechCorner/PistonCoatings.aspx
Originally Posted By: oil_film_movies
Originally Posted By: deven
Kinda like how these cams are kinda black
I was talking about the ringlands, on the pistons. Keeping camshafts "not black" isn't an issue. Pistons, OTOH, are a weak spot for 20k oil change intervals, seeing 350F+ degrees regularly. Does anybody think the pistons seen in the video are too deposited-up? If doing the Annual Prot 20k OCI's, then maybe do a 3,000 mile cleaning OCI every 2 or 3 years.
Do manufacturers use any kind of coating or process in that area of the piston? I know that piston skirts are sometimes moly coated or some other process but I am not sure about the ringland area.
There are coatings available in the aftermarket. I am not sure if anyone is using them in a production engine, but it would not surprise me.
http://www.jepistons.com/TechCorner/PistonCoatings.aspx
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
GM was using a polymer on skirts of the last gen 5.3L … not sure about the new version
Originally Posted By: 4WD
GM was using a polymer on skirts of the last gen 5.3L … not sure about the new version
Yes the skirt coatings are used in production engines... I was thinking - but failed to type - of the other coatings.
GM was using a polymer on skirts of the last gen 5.3L … not sure about the new version
Yes the skirt coatings are used in production engines... I was thinking - but failed to type - of the other coatings.
Did anyone notice the components shown for formulating the oil? Two viscosities of PAO, but no dino oil. Was that realistic or just marketing propaganda?
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Here is a recipe from Mobil … even if you sub some GIII+ in there … they are known to use multiple base fluids.
The one not listed for sale right now is GIII …
The one not listed for sale right now is GIII …
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Okay. I'm just going to come out and say it...
You should be very careful of videos like this. They have dragged this poor, unsuspecting sap off the street to tell you what is in essence, a pre-scripted, 'approved' story. This story conveys a message that they want you to swallow whole and not challenge. This is in essence, ADVERTISING dressed up in technical clothing.
A more critical reviewer might has opened by saying that 'Annual Protection' in itself isn't a big deal. Outside of the US, annual oil changes (consistent with the OEM's recommendation) are very much the norm. My car has a 12,500 mile recommended OCI. If it took me a year to accumulate 12.5k miles, then the car would get one oil change per year. It's been several years since I looked but I seem to recall a few OEMs pushing 18,000 mile OCIs on motorway-muncher fleet cars. He might even have asked quite reasonably, if the oil can do 20k miles in one year, might it be good for 10k miles per year for two years?
The next thing he might have asked for is proof positive that some of the 'visibly compelling' screening tests actually correlate with something meaningful. The spinning-disc test is a derivation of a test for jet engines; not the humble ICE! Had he asked, he might have found the ensuing silence informative. From this, he might have correctly deduced that if you want to sell an engine oil based on a stupidly expensive base oil like PAO and very expensive HSD VII, then reality is your enemy, not your friend. Which is why so many of these tests exist. They are tests purposely & solely designed to DIFFERENTIATE. On these tests, both PAOs & Esters show themselves up in an extremely favourable light. However, if the comparison is the totality of a car engine run under normal, everyday conditions...well then things become far less clear cut.
And yes, THAT piston...bit yucky wasn't it? Was it from the Lexus mileage accumulation tests or not? No-one seemed to want to say anything other than it was 'within limits'.
So is M1 AP a good oil? Yes, it's an excellent oil. Is it THAT special relative to any other full PAO oil? IMHO, probably not. Would I personally use it over a much cheaper Group II oil if I did 5k miles a year of normal driving? No. Would I personally use it over a cheaper Group III oil if I did 10k miles a year? No. If I did 20k miles a year, would I use one lot of M1 AP for the full 20k or two lots of Group III oil for 10k each? Personally, I'd go for two lots of 10k. These are not unreasonable questions to be asking.
You said "other full PAO oil". No M1 oil is full PAO or any other daily driver oil that I know of.
Okay. I'm just going to come out and say it...
You should be very careful of videos like this. They have dragged this poor, unsuspecting sap off the street to tell you what is in essence, a pre-scripted, 'approved' story. This story conveys a message that they want you to swallow whole and not challenge. This is in essence, ADVERTISING dressed up in technical clothing.
A more critical reviewer might has opened by saying that 'Annual Protection' in itself isn't a big deal. Outside of the US, annual oil changes (consistent with the OEM's recommendation) are very much the norm. My car has a 12,500 mile recommended OCI. If it took me a year to accumulate 12.5k miles, then the car would get one oil change per year. It's been several years since I looked but I seem to recall a few OEMs pushing 18,000 mile OCIs on motorway-muncher fleet cars. He might even have asked quite reasonably, if the oil can do 20k miles in one year, might it be good for 10k miles per year for two years?
The next thing he might have asked for is proof positive that some of the 'visibly compelling' screening tests actually correlate with something meaningful. The spinning-disc test is a derivation of a test for jet engines; not the humble ICE! Had he asked, he might have found the ensuing silence informative. From this, he might have correctly deduced that if you want to sell an engine oil based on a stupidly expensive base oil like PAO and very expensive HSD VII, then reality is your enemy, not your friend. Which is why so many of these tests exist. They are tests purposely & solely designed to DIFFERENTIATE. On these tests, both PAOs & Esters show themselves up in an extremely favourable light. However, if the comparison is the totality of a car engine run under normal, everyday conditions...well then things become far less clear cut.
And yes, THAT piston...bit yucky wasn't it? Was it from the Lexus mileage accumulation tests or not? No-one seemed to want to say anything other than it was 'within limits'.
So is M1 AP a good oil? Yes, it's an excellent oil. Is it THAT special relative to any other full PAO oil? IMHO, probably not. Would I personally use it over a much cheaper Group II oil if I did 5k miles a year of normal driving? No. Would I personally use it over a cheaper Group III oil if I did 10k miles a year? No. If I did 20k miles a year, would I use one lot of M1 AP for the full 20k or two lots of Group III oil for 10k each? Personally, I'd go for two lots of 10k. These are not unreasonable questions to be asking.
You said "other full PAO oil". No M1 oil is full PAO or any other daily driver oil that I know of.
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