Indoor HDTV Antennas

[ZeeOSix]

So looking at what www.nocable.org indicated what OTA channel transmitters I could get, it looks like I get 12 of the 14 without the amplifier, just the antenna alone. Of course, each OTA transmitter is sending out multiple channels (1 to 7) so that's why I get 47 channels total.

Played around with the amplifier and did some more "Channel Auto Scans". The amp makes a difference, and it also causes some channels to disappear that I had without the amplifier because I think it has too much signal for the tuner on already strong channels. Will elaborate more on that late.

 

[Lubener]

That's a nice tower. Regarding the indoor antenna, I never really had decent reception with attic or inside, set top units because of my aluminum siding. I had to put one up on the roof to get good results.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: Lubener
That's a nice tower. Regarding the indoor antenna, I never really had decent reception with attic or inside, set top units because of my aluminum siding. I had to put one up on the roof to get good results.


When I was living with them years ago, it was originally for high speed Microwave based internet because that is all that was available out in the country where they live. Now the tower is used to play around with antenna's and satellite dishes because they have Cable internet in the area.

 

[Lubener]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: Lubener
That's a nice tower. Regarding the indoor antenna, I never really had decent reception with attic or inside, set top units because of my aluminum siding. I had to put one up on the roof to get good results.


When I was living with them years ago, it was originally for high speed Microwave based internet because that is all that was available out in the country where they live. Now the tower is used to play around with antenna's and satellite dishes because they have Cable internet in the area.

I would also put a PTZ camera up there too.

 

[MCompact]

We use an amplified Mohu Leaf. It works very well.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: Lubener

I would also put a PTZ camera up there too.


I wanted to but he said I was crazy. I told him he could watch the planes and the stars. (He has his pilots license).

I'm going to put one on my Chimney so I can look up and around my house. Just have to work up the courage to go up on my steep pitch roof.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I'm pretty happy with the indoor HDTV antenna I bought on Amazon (I linked to it in an earlier post). It was $19.95 to the door (had a $5 discount at checkout on regular price of $24.95).

Per the on-line DTV signal locator tools it shows I should be able to get 14 transponders in my area with an indoor antenna. I moved the location of the antenna slightly and ended up getting 13 of the 14 transponders for a total of 41 channels. This is without the in-line amplifier. As noted before, the amplifier lost channels that were already strong ... probably overwhelmed the tuner and didn't lock-on.

Two of the transponders show to be 35~36 miles away NW of me, and the channels from them are coming in at 25%~30% signal strength. This TV will lock-on and have a clear stable HD 1080i picture with 3%~5% signal strength. I'm kind of up on a hill facing most of these transponders, so that definitely helps me pick-up all these transponders without an amplified indoor antenna.

 

[alarmguy]

Regarding signal strength,

TVs will display it usually one of two ways, it looks like your TV strongest signal is the 3% to 5% you are quoting, however that is actually -3db to -5 db which is around 95% signal strength.
Its not possible to receive digital signals with much less then 70% or so of signal and -3 to -5 DB of signal is VERY strong.

Anyway, the true way of measuring signals are DB, but TVs for the most part will show % ... and who knows how accurate some of them are when one is comparing with someone elses TV of a different model.

Its early, anyway ... HERE IS A CHART, CLICK

All my stations come in at 100% to all 5 TVs with a cheap $15 RCA boaster installed from the antenna lead to the junction box feeding the house, FOX was the only weak channel at around 70% or so and would pixel-ate at times.
I installed the cheap RCA Walmart boaster (years ago) and never an issue since. Important to note for people, that buying a powerful boaster is not always good if only a couple bad channels, as if you boast too much you will lose other channels that were good before the boaster.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Regarding signal strength,

TVs will display it usually one of two ways, it looks like your TV strongest signal is the 3% to 5% you are quoting, however that is actually -3db to -5 db which is around 95% signal strength.

This TV shows signal info as "Signal Level: xx%".

The strongest signal level I saw reported was 41% without the amplifier (transponder 33). Strongest signal reported with the amplifier was 90% (transponder 28).

Channels that are weak and sometimrs break up a bit show signal level of 0%~1%. I get a few channels that show only 3% and they seem to be clear and stable.

Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Important to note for people, that buying a powerful boaster is not always good if only a couple bad channels, as if you boast too much you will lose other channels that were good before the boaster.

Yep, I mentioned this earlier too. I got less channels with the amplifier. What's weird is one channel I lost was low signal strength w/o the amp (5%), and some that were around 40% w/o the amp came in great at 85% with the amp. So it seems there wasn't an even effect across the channel spectrum when using the amplifier.

The antenna seller mentions that the amplifier can cause "self oscillations" in some instances and not pick up channels. Would be nice if the amplifier level was adjustible so it could be "tuned" for a particular setup.

 

[alarmguy]

Please dont misunderstand me, Im not doubting you and what you are reporting, I just provided the link to show you what actual signal needs to be for a picture. A digital picture can not display with less then 70% of the signal.

I am doubting the signal results being displayed by your TV or how they are being interpreted or something else is in play here that we do not know.
Its not possible to have a picture with less then 70% of the broadcast signal.

I suspect, thinking about it. The number your TV might be showing you might be a scale of the signal it NEEDS to display the picture. So if it shows you a 1 to 3% that is min needed to display however the signal itself maybe 70%.

 

[Shannow]

Been messing around since we bought the new place.

The external antenna had a J-Box that goes to all the bedrooms, but appears weather exposed and was hit or miss.

Tried (successfully) a $10 set of digital rabbit ears that needed a little orientation to get just perfect.

New fence (steel) went up last week and reception hopeless.

So found a map of the HDTV repeater locations, and found that if I oriented the ears towards them (planar), I got the best reception...then it got rainy, and stopped working.

Took the set from the other room, and coupled them with a paper clip.



Only one (RHS) is connected to the TV, the other forms a "W" connected front leg on LHS to back leg RHS, and the whole shebang 45 degrees from the direction of the repeater...

Now I've got ideas on what I want to build....

 

[Papa Bear]

An antenna doesn't know/care if the signal being received is analogue, digital, AM, FM, HD, SD or anything else.
It just cares about the frequency spectrum ....
A good old analogue antenna from decades ago will receive today's signal just fine if the transmitting frequency is the same.

If an indoor antenna worked as well as an outdoor one they wouldn't sell any outdoor antennae.
An outdoor antenna has the room for directors and reflector (gain)- and a rotator for optimum reception.

Just like car engines (the bigger, the better) so goes antennae

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
An antenna doesn't know/care if the signal being received is analogue, digital, AM, FM, HD, SD or anything else.
It just cares about the frequency spectrum ....
A good old analogue antenna from decades ago will receive today's signal just fine if the transmitting frequency is the same.


I thought these antennas for HDTV were specifically designed to efficiently pick up the frequencies used for OTA digital HDTV. Are you saying an old pair of rabbit ears from 1965 will work the same as one of these 13" x 9" flat HDTV indoor antennas like I bought?

 

[Papa Bear]

Yup .... the same 4 bay bow-tie antenna from 1965 is the one they sell today for UHF HDTV. The frequencies are the same

 

[alarmguy]

Simplified, Yes. OTA HDTV uses the same frequencies as did the old TVs since the beginning of time. Only difference is instead of an analog signal it is now a digital signal.

The tall part of Rabbit Ears are for VHF signals (analog or digital, it doesnt matter) and the short bowtie antenna that came with rabbit ears was for UHF (analog or digital, it doesnt matter).

Nothing has changed TV frequencies are TV frequencies that signals are transmitted on, doesnt matter if its analog or digital, with one exception. Most digital signals are now using the upper end of the VHF spectrum (which used to be known as channel 7 and higher and of course the UHF spectrum.
So when you see the attic and roof type antennas with the long poles sticking out of the sides of the mast that is for the VHF band and the short stubby poles are for UHF.
Such as this, the back of the antenna is for VHF, Front for UHF ...

This specific type of antenna gives you a little more of a wide spectrum of frequencies and a good all around antenna vs the bow tie which is geared more towards the UHF spectrum but still a good choice, more so now adays because again, digital signals are using more of the upper band now, the bowtie not as efficient at the lower band but much of the lower isnt being used anymore, I did take the safe route and choose one like the above, I was thinking of experimenting for the fun of it with a bowtie to see if I would still get as good signal as I do now but most likely never will ;; )

 

[ZeeOSix]

This indoor antenna (probably like all HDTV antennas) is designed for: "Frequency Range: VHF 86-230MHz, UHF 470-862MHz."

Here's the list of OTA transmitter channels within 35 miles. Of the list, 3 are VHF, and 11 are UHF. I can receive with a good picture all but 13 & 45. The signal is too weak where I'm at. Channel 13 is the farthest away and I could probably get it with the amplifier, but will lose some other channels if the amp is used.

 

[Papa Bear]

Alarmguy's antenna is built for 86-862 Mz .. is your indoor antenna as large as his ?? No way. !

Today, very few channels use VHF-low which is the longest elements in Alarmguy's antenna.
Your available channels are all VHF-Hi & UHF (even your channels 4&5 are using UHF frequencies)

Literally all indoor antennae are poor in the VHF range and mediocre in the UHF range. They have no directors/reflector.
If you can get satisfactory reception with an indoor antenna that's great - if you can't then get a better outdoor VHF-HI/UHF combination antenna

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
Alarmguy's antenna is built for 86-862 Mz .. is your indoor antenna as large as his ?? No way. !


Yes, I know a large outside antenna is going to pull in a few more channels and give better signal strength. Pretty basic stuff. I can't put an outside antenna up in my HOA neighborhood (small satellite dishes are OK). I could get a bigger antenna and put it in the attic above my garage and maybe get a few more channels than I'm already getting. But what this 86-862 Mz $20 indoor antenna picks up is good enough for a spare bedroom TV.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
This indoor antenna (probably like all HDTV antennas) is designed for: "Frequency Range: VHF 86-230MHz, UHF 470-862MHz."

Here's the list of OTA transmitter channels within 35 miles. Of the list, 3 are VHF, and 11 are UHF. I can receive with a good picture all but 13 & 45. The signal is too weak where I'm at. Channel 13 is the farthest away and I could probably get it with the amplifier, but will lose some other channels if the amp is used.
...



Yes, "designed for" even a coat hanger can make that claim, like any product those claims are to sell a product and those claims are 100% accurate, "designed for" doesnt mean it will work or better said, your TV can make the same claim with no antenna, if the broadcast tower is across the street from your home! )
Yes, all products will work as an antenna, even a coat hanger, but a large antenna will bring in stations 40 miles away reliably and be able to distribute those signals to as many TVs as you want in your home just like pay cable tv (with a better picture then pay tv!).

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
Alarmguy's antenna is built for 86-862 Mz .. is your indoor antenna as large as his ?? No way. !


Yes, I know a large outside antenna is going to pull in a few more channels and give better signal strength. Pretty basic stuff. I can't put an outside antenna up in my HOA neighborhood (small satellite dishes are OK). I could get a bigger antenna and put it in the attic above my garage and maybe get a few more channels than I'm already getting. But what this 86-862 Mz $20 indoor antenna picks up is good enough for a spare bedroom TV.


Agree with you! Hey zee0Siz, like I said before, my posts are just to help and help others who maybe reading these threads, no way am I saying do this or that, your solution is working good for you and that is really cool.

With that said, uh ohhhh, here I go again, *L* ... this is ONLY for others thinking about doing something like cutting the cord.
... I live in a restricted community, NO ONE has an antenna on their roof (some do have small dishes) and honestly I did not want one either, more for maintenance and exposed to the elements and did not need any more range for the channels. (never mind my roof is freaking really high!)

I have a large attic and my house was actually prewired for cable in every room which the antenna pictured installed in the attic and wired into the main junction box of the house with a small cheap $15 RCA signal boaster that I needed for one station Fox.


Anyway, not for you, but for others in here, an HOA can not legally deny your right to receive TV signals with an outdoor antenna! This is FEDERAL LAW!
Most HOAs dont know it and would be up to the homeowner to ignore the HOA and if questioned or fined by the HOA, simply show them the LAW.
Or, if you are not one to CHALLENGE illegal infringement of your rights, you can install one in the attic.

CLICK HERE FOR THE FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS RULES

"The rule (47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000) has been in effect since October 1996, and it prohibits restrictions that impair the installation, maintenance or use of antennas used to receive video programming. The rule applies to video antennas including direct-to-home satellite dishes that are less than one meter (39.37") in diameter (or of any size in Alaska), TV antennas, and wireless cable antennas. The rule prohibits most restrictions that: (1) unreasonably delay or prevent installation, maintenance or use; (2) unreasonably increase the cost of installation, maintenance or use; or (3) preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal."