Impressed with the upcoming Honda Fit

[javacontour]

I paid $2500 for the Prizm three years ago. I've driven it over 75K miles in that three years and my cost/mile is $0.133 for everything. I've spent a total of $10,364.81 to operate the Prizm since 4/12/2003.

Everything includes: purchase, taxes, license, fuel, maintenance, repairs and insurance.

Counting what I paid down on the Scion as well as taxes, license, insurance, fuel and monthly payments I'm at $0.735/mile. Of course I've only had the car 4 months and the taxes and money down as well as payments are spread out over a shorter distance.

However, after a year or so, I expect the actual cost/mile to be in the $0.35/mile range.

For the tC The costs break out as follows:

Tax and License 41.3% - $1193
Payments and Downpayment 38.6% - $1115
Fuel 10.2% - $295
Insurance 8.6% $248
Maintenance 1% $29

Total spent to date: $2888
Mileage 4022
Fuel Cost/mile $0.073


For the Geo Prizm:

Fuel 43.6% - $4519
Purchase (includes initial taxes) 23.8%
Maintenance and Repairs 18.8%
Insurance and License 13.5%

Total Mileage since purchase: 77876

Now it's not fair to compare fuel costs for three years on the Geo, so let's look at the Geo at it's average fuel economy of 31.8 MPG.

Fuel here is currently at about $2.75/gallon.

So at 31.8MPG, fuel for the Geo is $0.086/mile
Looking at the tC in the same way, fuel @ $2.75/gallon given the tC's average 27.7 MPG is $0.099/mile.

If the tC doubled it's fuel economy, then fuel cost /mile is about $0.05/mile.

Given the Geo Prizm cost $15000 less than the tC, it would take 416K miles driving in the tC to recoup the cost difference in purchase price.

Of course the tC might need fewer repairs for some period of that 416K mile run, but at some point it would equal and then exceed the maintenance costs of the Geo Prizm.

Fuel economy is seldom a good reason to trade for a new car. The cheapest car to drive in most cases is the one you own and make no payments to drive.

 

[javacontour]

Oh, I doubled the fuel economy of the tC in my calculations.

If I double the fuel economy of the Geo like I originally said, it takes about 348K miles to make up just the difference in purchase price.

 

[ScottB]

quote:

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Fuel economy is seldom a good reason to trade for a new car. The cheapest car to drive in most cases is the one you own and make no payments to drive.

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I followed that methodology for about 12 years.
I got to know AAA drivers too well.
I found that costs of a paid-for car can exceed that of a new car payment in other, much worse ways.

I'm now a true believer in a nice, maintained, new car which I can use until it becomes no longer nice and reliable.

I'm not one that likes car payments, but my experiment of 12 years just ended with the tC purchase.

Of course, the used and paid-for cars were all used and of unknown heritage/maintenance, so that's somewhat unfair as I'm sure there are excellent used cars that would have done right by me.

Scott

 

[OriginHacker21]

quote:

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Originally posted by javacontour:
it takes about 348K miles to make up just the difference in purchase price.

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Better get driving!

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by ScottB:
I'm not surprised OTOH, that there's few in Utah and VA.

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I am. I live about 20 miles from Washington, DC and most of my commute is through one of the richest counties (Fairfax) in the entire country.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by ScottB:
PS - I firmly believe that 99% of the poeple that buy these things are making a political statement and not trying "to save gas"

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A significant percentage of the hybrids I see out there have stickers that contradict the political statement you might otherwise think the driver was trying to make.

 

[ScottB]

I never said hybrid drivers didn't suffer from other issues, Brian...

Anyway. I didn't say what statement they were trying to make.

Why else does one wait in line, pay more, and put up with such ***** designs if not for making a statement?

Scott

 

[ScottB]

quote:

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Originally posted by brianl703:

quote:

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Originally posted by ScottB:
I'm not surprised OTOH, that there's few in Utah and VA.

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I am. I live about 20 miles from Washington, DC and most of my commute is through one of the richest counties (Fairfax) in the entire country.

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And aside from actors trying to act like they care, most rich people aren't driving hybrids.

Methinks you were trying to read into my post where it didn't need reading into.

It has nothing to do with money, or lack thereof.
It's a statement, Brian.

This is the kind of place - like NY, SF, etc. that people that like that live.

Scott

 

[brianl703]

In the Washington, DC area, there are lots of people who make their living making political statements. (I'm mainly referring to lobbyists and lobbying organizations, many of which are headquartered in this area).

For that reason alone I would expect to see more hybrids.

Only thing I read into your post is that you didn't know which part of Virginia I might have been talking about.

 

[JHZR2]

Brian,

I worked in Arlington for 5 months and lived in Anacostia... I was all over the NCR... Seemed to me that most folks bought their hybrids so they could use the HOV lanes... they all drove fast and Im sure unsafe as usual...

JMH

 

[brianl703]

I do recall many people complaining about the hybrid HOV exemption in letters to Dr.Gridlock and the like. From these letters you'd think every 2nd car in the HOV lanes is a hybrid...

I don't see very many hybrid vehicles on my commute between my house and I66, but that's only HOV-2 and doesn't have physically separated HOV lanes so it's probably easier to avoid getting caught compared to I95 which does have physically separated HOV lanes. Also the hours at which I commute are right at the tail end of HOV hours.

BTW, motorcycles are also exempt from HOV regulations (and in some cases much cheaper than a hybrid).

[ April 16, 2006, 10:16 PM: Message edited by: brianl703 ]

 

[JHZR2]

My biggest issue with the economy car market is that everyone has to be made to think that theyre worth fancy stuff (even if they save 0 money and have negative net worth), and that they are upscale and deserve upscale stuff.

Sorry, econo cars shouldnt be upscale. Power windows and door locks maybe, but nothing beyond that.

Drivetrain is another story. An excellent drivetrain is a must... this means a top notch engine and transmission, four wheel discs, good gearing, etc.

a robust, well designed economy car does not mean fancy or upscale, it means robust, well designed and economy. Ill buy a fancier car if I want to. I thought I originally liked the civic, but in person, not so much... If I wanted a decent car to move up to from one that gets >41 MPG, Id get an accord 4cyl MT or even an acura TSX... or my favorite, the Saab 9-3 which will beat them both in economy and drivability. But then were not talkng econo cars, which have their place... not this big yet low economy civic and its equivalents.

These new 'econo' cars just have poor fuel economy and small footprints (nothing wrong with a small footprint in and of itself), so theyre just not that great of a deal. Sure the fit has a Honda name it (IMO the toyota offering looks funny, even if it gets high MPG), but so what? Lets not get into that debate.

As silly as I think the new VW commercials are, the golf diesel is heads and shoulders above this car in terms of operating economy and design. Sure, honda does build a good and very high tech engine.. kudos to them for the innovations and things they bring about (see original post with links)... But it just does not cut it. Sorry, Honda... try again wth one of those spectacular diesels that you supposedly make but dont sell here. All other makers are requested to act in stride.

JMH

[ April 16, 2006, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: JHZR2 ]

 

[vad]

So, how much is the Golf diesel?

 

[rjundi]

I saw this car(FIT) in person in NH with CA plates. It looked like a boring European type little econobox hatchback. I am unsure why any excitement over it?

 

[JHZR2]

base invoice = 18,237...

how long will it take to pay back 44 mpg vs the 38?

And how much are you paying for that little honda badge on the hood anyway??? I could likely mistake the fit for a Suzuki Aerio anyway.

Im no VW fan, in reality... but it is a better option for operating economy, and quite possibly longevity. And it isnt all that great considering the asking price.

JMH

 

[ScottB]

Sorry, but those new Vee-Dub commercials are some of the funniest to date.
I downloaded those and laugh every time I play them.

As for econoboxes being stripped, not IMO.
The new younger generation won't buy anything like that. You have to have gizmos and fun.
My SCION tC can come stripped, or loaded with Toyota/TRD accessories, and you get to pick what you want. That is a good recipe. Try finding one on a lot these days.

Scott

 

[Mustang_Cougar]

It's sort of rediculous to slam Honda for not bringing it's best diesel engines here when VW doesn't either.

Now, when they do, what will be fun is having it serviced at an American VW dealership with no experience doing it. Not to mention that you can find a Honda dealership a little easier than VW one. $$$ premium for a diesel, $$$ repairs, continuing reliability issues, and the inconvience of finding a dealer.

Now if VW would begin designing cars for American needs and tastes, instead of trying to sell us cars designed for German requirements, then I might get on board. Bring us the Lupo, bring us the Polo. Keep the detuned GTI, stop trying to sell us the Jetta/Bora at A4 prices, and understand once and for all that Americans see VW as a economy car company, not a close-cousin of Audi. There are too many other options for premium automobiles...why no low-cost, high-quality European nameplates?

Honda will sell lots of Fits and Toyota lots of Yaris's, but VW will contintue to scratch their heads and wonder why Americans don't buy Golfs. Build it and price it like an econobox, we'll buy many. Build it and price it like an Audi, and we'll buy an Audi.

 

[JHZR2]

look, Im no VW fan... and their pricing is stupid... I wanted to buy a vw diesel when my MB diesel got smashed by an uninsured driver, but I got a new saab for almost the same price... However, there is one thing that VW has in what is, in reality, their econobox offering: at least they have a diesel engine.

As for the younger gen needing gizmos and fun... yeah, well, Im 25, Im amongst the generation, and I can tell you that most of my peers are idiots. Plain and simple, sorry to say it. Ive spent enough time in college and grad school to see idiocy in action. The average credit card debt of a college graduate (most of it not due to educational or room/board needs) is tribute enough to why they dont need those gizmos and fun things, and need to learn to be responsile, before they bring the country down 10x worse than our predecessors.

diesel maintenance is really no tougher than ga$$er maintenance... I work on two (well down to one since an idiot smashed one of the MBs) and there really isnt much to it. There are sensitive expensive parts on a diesel, just like there are same on a ga$$er... Thing is, on a well designed diesel, that part wont go bad until 200k+ miles... on a gas car, the thing will be shot by then. Its just that people think that its tougher. Last I checked, there is a huge infrastructure of diesel maintenance and repair know-how that already exists. I dont think 3/4 and 1-ton truck owners have issues with maintenance and repair of their trucks... and lots of thise diesels sell... HD diesel pickups will outsell diesel econooboxes (if they ever make it to the US) by many units for many years... there is time to ramp up dealership knowledge.

JMH

 

[Mustang_Cougar]

quote:

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Originally posted by JHZR2:
base invoice = 18,237...

how long will it take to pay back 44 mpg vs the 38?

And how much are you paying for that little honda badge on the hood anyway??? I could likely mistake the fit for a Suzuki Aerio anyway.

Im no VW fan, in reality... but it is a better option for operating economy, and quite possibly longevity. And it isnt all that great considering the asking price.

JMH

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First off, good luck getting that price. VW makes money on luxury options just like every car company...so, again, good luck consistantly finding that price.

Second, you're kidding about the Honda badge thing, right? Young Euroracer wannabes and GenY Yuppies don't consider the name plate when buying VW? Come on...

I just don't see how paying $18k+ for a stripped VW diesel, with new diesel technology that is unknown to American VW mechanics, coupled with VW's ongoing quality issues, is going to offer better operating economy or longevity. I'm not saying it's worse than a Honda or Toyota, but I'm not buying that it's better either.

Plus, our diesel fuel is not a relative "bargain" like it is in Europe. Tell me the cost of producing cleaner diesel isn't going to be passed on at the pump...making operating costs higher for diesel drivers. VW bringing new diesels to America is not going to radically change the landscape. We need an already-established high-volume company in America, like GM or Toyota, to get that out there.

 

[JHZR2]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mustang_Cougar:
VW bringing new diesels to America is not going to radically change the landscape. We need an already-established high-volume company in America, like GM or Toyota, to get that out there.

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Darn right... and in a roundabout way, thats the point i want to make!

JMH