I'm gonna rinse Auto-RX with synthetic

[Stainless]

First off this is gonna be a long detailed post.

Secondly, I am not trolling.

Ok, here we go.

I have a 1998 Chevy Lumina, with the 3.1 V6. I have used Mobil 1 5w30 for as long as I have owned it. When the car had 135,000 miles on it, I decided I would Auto-RX it.

So, I bought 2 bottles of ARX, and dumped 10 ounces into the Mobil 1 fill. I ran 1,500 miles, (the clean phase). Then I drained the oil, changed the oil filter to a Wix 51036, and refilled with Castrol GTX 5w30 Dino oil.

I ran the 2,000 mile RINSE phase with the GTX. When I drained the oil, it didn't look dirty. So, I cut open my "rinse" filter... and found... NOTHING. I have to admit, I was surprised. I checked the pleats of the filter element, and couldn't find any type of residue, or any darker particles. I just found the filter element, soaking wet with oil. I would have taken pictures, but they would have shown... nothing... just a wet oil filter.

I just couldn't believe, after 135,000 miles... my engine was THAT clean. I am NOT saying the Auto RX didn't work. I just don't know what happened. My only guess is that Mobil 1 seems to be a REALLY clean oil, with excellent detergents. Now, I DID NOT regret running the treatment, because Auto-RX supposedly does MORE than just clean sludge, it also cleans ring packs, and has been known to increase compression.

So, rather than use the second bottle. I refilled with Mobil 1 5w30 at 138,500 miles. Then I took a vacation to Florida.

For the next 5 days, and 2,000 miles, I drove down to, and around Florida. During that time, I burned 1.5-2 quarts of oil. I was kinda surprised, as the car never burned that much oil, that quickly. Maybe it was all the highway miles at 80mph, (boy those drivers FLY down south). Then, after adding one quart, I drove 1,500 back to ohio.

Then at 142,000 I changed the oil again. Another 5 quarts of Mobil 1 5w30. After that I did some thinking: I wondered if another treatment of Auto-RX might help the oil buring issue... so I dumped the other bottle in. So, this brings us to the present:

I plan on running THIS cleaning treatment for 3,000 miles. Yes, I know it is over-kill, but, who knows what will happen?.... I am gonna find out.

#2 When I finally drain the cleaning oil, I am switching to Mobil 1 0w-20. Yes, I am going to rinse with a group 3? 4? synthetic. Why? I have 2 reasons. Number one, it is COLD, and there is NO WAY you are going to convince me to run a DINO oil when it is going to be less than 10 degrees at night. NO way, not gonna happen.

And number two. I have yet to see PROOF that rinsing with a synthetic oil CAN'T be done. (As an aside to this, I am not interested in CLEANING anymore, I just want my rings resealed and compression raised.)

Now wait a min, I know you are going to quote this:

Quote:

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Q: Why do you recommend non-synthetic oil for the rinse" phase of the application?
A: We recommend simple, non-synthetic oil (do not use-semi synthetic or high-mileage oil) for this important step in the Auto-Rx® Application. Synthetic oil has a complex additive package that polarizes the liquefied debris on the engine’s internal oil-lubricated parts. The goal is to rinse all the internal parts of this liquefied debris, and a good “Dino Oil”, with its simple additive package, does the job very well."

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Honestly, that makes no sense to me. How could the synthetic oil... which kept my whole engine clean up to this point, be NO GOOD at rinsing now?

Also, since the dirt should have been "liquified" during the cleaning phase, shouldn't it have been drained when the "Cleaning stage" oil was drained? And if the dirt didn't drain out... was it really "liquified"?

From previous posts in older threads, I have heard this answer: "Synthetic oil sticks to metal better, and we want an oil that will rinse the metal parts clean." HUH? Wait a min, SO dino oil leaves the metal more dry? or synthetic stays on metal parts longer?

And yes, I do understand, "Synthetic oil has a complex additive package that polarizes the liquefied debris on the engine’s internal oil-lubricated parts." So you are telling me that ONLY synthetic oil does this... and that no dino oil what-so-ever is capable of this? How?

My biggest worry about using Dino, is that Synthetic oil has gotten me this far, cleanly. Why on earth would I put a lesser quality oil in my engine (dino)... in order to "clean it" when Synthetic oil has kept it clean up to now. I can understand using the Auto RX, IN ADDITION to synthetic oil, but I just don't see the point in using a lessor quality oil, in the name of progress.

Again, I am not trolling, nor am I a disgruntled former-customer.

I just DO NOT take things on "a matter of faith" NOR, "because we said so, trust us." I do NOT trust, I want the proof to make an educated decision.

There is a reason less than 5% of the US population is actually "wealthy".... everyone else... lives LIKE everyone else.... "because they said so, trust them."

have a good one.

Stainless

 

[Ugly3]

Don't follow proven instructions and get what you will get. It is your engine.

 

[Frank]

Synthetic Oil needs a longer rinse cycle probably 3000 miles.
Try and follow application instructions and post again when you drain your oil at 3000 miles.

I find Auto-Rx works best, when instructions are followed,

 

[stogiedude]

Why use Mobil 1 (expensive) for a 1500 mile oil change interval? Any inexpensive dino oil would do fine to run an ARX clean cycle and any inexpensive dino would be fine for the rinse IMO. If you are concerned (a little late at this point), get a jug of Castrol at Wally world for around $13 for the clean and the rinse. If you worry that Castrol dino for 1500 miles is going to hurt your engine, then you worry too much.

Leave the oil chemistry to the tribologists. Unless you really know about how the different molecules interact, their polarity, their affinity to other types of hydrocarbons/esters etc., then just follow what people before you who have used the product and tested the product tell you to do.

You don't need to know the chemistry of a product and why it does what it does to use it. Sometimes you need to trust experts in a field of knowledge that their instructions for use have a reason and that the manufacturer wants you to get good results so you buy the product again.

In my experience on six different cars I have seen oil consumption too. Not sure why or what causes it, but it seems to subside eventually. You may also experience an oil leak. They seem to eventually subside too although I used a seal conditioner additive so I don't know if they go away by themselves or if the conditioner helped.

Even if your engine looks clean from the fill area under the valve cover, you can't see the rings unless you take the motor apart and that goes for other internal parts too. You may brush your teeth and they may look nice and white, but that doesn't tell you anything about how the inside of your stomach or liver look. Your car will probably fall apart long before the engine dies even if you didn't use Mobil 1 and the transmission will probably fail before the engine too.

If you feel that Mobil 1 has gotten you this far and you trust it then go back to it when you're done with ARX. Switching between dino and synthetic is not a problem and has been discussed here and other places ad nauseum. Synthetics mix with dino and dino mixes with synthetics, no big deal.

 

[Maximumcanon]

It amazes me. People answer his question without answering his question but by repeating an ARX statement that says absolutely nothing. I don't have the same concers as the OP but i definately feel the same about following instructions blindly. I have just started my rinse phase for my auto-rx treatment and right before that my car sounded like #@$%!. I asked why but no one could give an answer except "It makes noise because it is cleaning the engine". If a dirty engine ticks, how could cleaning it make it tick louder? If the sludge etc is now liquefied shuoldnt that help to quiet the engine? As far as the OP's statement, auto-rx says "Auto-Rx is a highly concentrated combination of ester based cleaning components." Isnt that what makes group IV and V oils special? Isnt that was makes them effective cleaners even without additives? Wouldnt that increase the cleaning power? If it counteracts the cleaning in the rinse phase, why wouldnt it do the same during the cleaning phase? Not saying ARX doesnt work but an explanation of things that make little sense would be nice.

 

[Touring5]

Quote:

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Don't follow proven instructions and get what you will get. It is your engine.

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Looks to me like the original poster did just that - followed the instructions precisely for the first clean/rinse phase. I ran the exact same thing (1500 clean with M1 / 2000 rinse with dino) and had a clean filter at the end. With less than 100K on the odometer, I didn't feel another clean + rinse would be required. I think results are dependent on how dirty the engine was before treatment, and use on a fairly clean engine still provides peace of mind. Sometimes I think the BITOG posters can be the worst enemy of ARX, posting advice that is contrary to the Frank's own instructions (i.e. suggesting that you must use dino for both clean & rinse).

 

[BrianWC]

Quote:

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It amazes me. People answer his question without answering his question but by repeating an ARX statement that says absolutely nothing. I don't have the same concers as the OP but i definately feel the same about following instructions blindly. I have just started my rinse phase for my auto-rx treatment and right before that my car sounded like #@$%!. I asked why but no one could give an answer except "It makes noise because it is cleaning the engine". If a dirty engine ticks, how could cleaning it make it tick louder? If the sludge etc is now liquefied shuoldnt that help to quiet the engine? As far as the OP's statement, auto-rx says "Auto-Rx is a highly concentrated combination of ester based cleaning components." Isnt that what makes group IV and V oils special? Isnt that was makes them effective cleaners even without additives? Wouldnt that increase the cleaning power? If it counteracts the cleaning in the rinse phase, why wouldnt it do the same during the cleaning phase? Not saying ARX doesnt work but an explanation of things that make little sense would be nice.

---

I, too, went through this same question but to paraphrase a radio commercial I've heard, the more I know, the more I know I don't know.

As best I can understand it, all esters are not created equal. I don't know the relative polarity of dino oils v. synths but it'd make sense that premium synths were more polar. Not all carbon is completely dissolved into a pure liquid state. Just look at the dirty filters. If synth is preferred, why not use a group III? Frank and the gang seem to not have a problem with the use of Pennzoil Platinum or Rotella T Synth.

 

[stogiedude]

You don't have to use cheap dino for the clean and rinse phase, it makes sense to use it. Why use Mobil 1 which can go 5k or 6k or more miles and costs multiple times what is being recommended to use to do a good job with ARX and which has been tested and proven to work just fine? The manufacturer says dino, he told me Castrol over the phone. If you want to use Mobil 1 because that's what you've always used then do it.

If Mobil 1 was the best oil to use for the clean and rinse cycle then the manufacturer of ARX would recommend it or at least mention it as a good choice wouldn't they? They want you to get good results don't they?

If the oil is only going to be in the engine a short time and dino because of it's chemistry doesn't impede the cleaning action of ARX then why the resistance and why do you need to know every single reason why the manufacturer wants you to do it?

Different solvents have different chemical actions because of the way their molecules react to the things that are soluble in them. Water is a solvent, alcohol is a solvent, gasoline is a solvent and so on. ARX dissolves engine deposits in a different way than petroleum distilates like Chemtool or Seafoam for example. Do you need to know exactly how ARX dissolves the deposits?

Because of the way ARX molecules dissolve the engine deposits they are "comfortable" being suspended in dino oil because of their polarity and affinity to the engine deposits, the carrier oil and the metal in the engine. The dino molecules don't compete with the ARX molecules.

If you want a more complex explanation then you'll need someone here who can tell you the actual chemical makeup of the different oils and why they behave the way they do.

When you go to the doctor and they give you medicines do you know everything about the chemistry of the medicines that you're taking? Do you need to completely understand how the drugs work and how they effect the enzymes or protiens in your body? Do you understand what happens on a molecular level to the food you are eating every day? Do you need to?

If you were told that for best results with a particular soap you should wash your hands with water and you decided to use mouthwash instead would that make sense?

If your engine was already pretty clean before ARX then the results that you experience will be less than you would see from using ARX on a dirty engine and any improvement may be subtle. I've noticed more improvement in performance on some of my cars than on others after ARX treatment.

If you REALLY want to know more about the chemistry involved, read old threads at BITOG. Just about everything has already been discussed here sometime in the past, usually several times.

 

[JohnBrowning]

If you have already tried AUto-Rx and did not recieve what you expected in terms of bennifit be thankful! THat just means your engine was really clean to start with. I would not waste a perfectly good bottle of Auto-Rx on a synthetic rinse. I am going to propose a comprimise here. If you think that their is still some stuff in the engine that has not come out in the rinse I would use an old fantioned cheap solvent flush. I would use one of the following: Golden Eagle Engine Flush, Amsoil Engine Flush, Gunk 5 Minute Engine Flush, Soldier Seal Engine Flush, Sea Foam, B12 Chemtool. I would use fresh cheap oil and I would run the cleaners at fst idles around 1500RPMs for 25-30 minutes and flush. The reason to use clean cheap oil is obvious since it is only going to be in the engine for 25-30 minutes then drained.I also like fresh oil because it is going to be very light in color so you will be able to see by color change in that short amount of time how much stuff was still in the engine. I also like the fact that new oil is going to hold anything that is still in the oil in suspension and it has a fresh additive package full of anti wear and extreme presure additives. I would use what walmart brand, TropArtic or any other cheap oil and I would use 5W30. I would find it almost impossable for a well maintianed engine running syntheics to still need cleaning after Auto-Rx and a cheap flush! Save that other bottle of auto-rx and use it to do the 3 once maintnece dosage that works fine with dino or synthetic to keep your now clean engine clean forever! You could also use that other bottle for the transmission and powersteering system. Maybe you have another car some place inthe family that could benifitt from AUto-RX??????

 

[Mystic]

I don't see why people are unwilling to follow directions. Does it hurt using conventional oil just for the rinse cycle? Now if you own a car like a Corvette you have to use synthetic oil. I think in the case of synthetic oil you just extend the oil change 1000 miles.

You can also use a maintenance dose of Auto-RX to keep an engine clean. If you do that a bottle will go a long way and you will not have to do a cleaning very often.

 

[dargo]

After reading, I thought it was stated that if you do a maintenance dose you will not have the clean again?

 

[JohnBrowning]

He already did one proper clean and rinse. He was going to do another with is second bottle. He did not get anything traped in his filter the first time around. So he does not have a problem following directions has he has already followed them once before!!

 

[miked2]

I agree with Maximumcanon:

Quote:

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It amazes me. People answer his question without answering his question but by repeating an ARX statement that says absolutely nothing. I don't have the same concers as the OP but i definately feel the same about following instructions blindly. I have just started my rinse phase for my auto-rx treatment and right before that my car sounded like #@$%!. I asked why but no one could give an answer except "It makes noise because it is cleaning the engine". If a dirty engine ticks, how could cleaning it make it tick louder? If the sludge etc is now liquefied shuoldnt that help to quiet the engine? As far as the OP's statement, auto-rx says "Auto-Rx is a highly concentrated combination of ester based cleaning components." Isnt that what makes group IV and V oils special? Isnt that was makes them effective cleaners even without additives? Wouldnt that increase the cleaning power? If it counteracts the cleaning in the rinse phase, why wouldnt it do the same during the cleaning phase? Not saying ARX doesnt work but an explanation of things that make little sense would be nice.

---

More than likely after using M1 for years, you really didn't need ARX in the first place. You were just trying to make something already good a little better. I am guilty of that myself. While I believe ARX is an excellent product, not everyone needs it. As far as your oil useage goes, driving @ 80 mph for extended peroids of time will tend to make most engines use a little oil. When you get back to your normal driving routine your oil consumption (or lack there of) will be back to normal.
Good luck & have a nice Christmas.

 

[Ramblin Fever]

I guess my question would be, if Mobil 1 has done such a good job at keeping everything clean; why the use of ARX to begin with? Just because it's over 100k+

I understand the use of it in vehicles that have seal leakage, bad ticking, low compression, oil burning etc. But I don't understand it's use in a vehicle that's ran on supposedly one of the highest ranking oils since new.

Your car shouldn't be burning any oil or have low compression issues.

I've ran nothing but dino in my engines for over 160k miles on several of them without leaks, burning issues, etc. in one 1979 350 Chevy engine truck, we had over 300k on Havoline 10w30/40; never once had a seal/gasket replaced in over 15yrs, never burned more then 1/2qt in 3k miles.

So with yours having had a life of Synthetic at only 130k miles, shouldn't warrant use of ARX in my opinion anyway.

Personally, I think when someone tries to make a good situation even better, that's when they end up with problems.

 

[m2200b]

I'd use the remaining bottle(s) as maintenance and on the trannie per instructions. The 3.1 GM is easy on oil and should be clean enough as your filter inspection showed.

 

[kcryan]

My question is what should i do if i get a car that uses syn from the factory say a corvette, or better yet a E46 M3 that requires that special 10-60, what should i do if i need/want to auto rx it?

 

[JohnBrowning]

Well their is not that much of an issue even with say an E46 or a corvette. You can do the cleaning with synthetic you just can not do the rinse phase well with synthetic. Second you should not need Auto-Rx until your E46 or Corvette is well out of warranty!!It would not hurt a Corvette or E46 to use dinooil for the short rinse cycle it is only what 1200-1800 miles? It is not like he is asking you to take the car to the track with dino init or to drive it for 10,000 mile OCI or something insane. Worst case you could easily run a 15W40 diesel oil in that E46 or Corvette and have plenty of protection for that 1200 miles of rinseing!

It is a waste of money to use Auto-Rx in a manner that does not allow it to work. You could save a lot of money and use LC20 or some solvent flush with your synthetic!

 

[goodvibes]

The second bottle is being used to he should stay away from the 20wt if he's using oil, at least until he sees it stop. He may get a benefit from the second bottle. Rings get stuck in clean engines too though his oil use may be from valve guides etc.

 

[Frank]

How about rinsing with Pennsoil Platimum? this is a good oil and test show good results in both clean and rinse modes..

Maximumcannon i have answered your question two seperate times.Here is short version.

Although ARX is sold as a lubrication system cleaner, all three of the ester
components have lubricity enhancement characteristics on their own. The
primary cleaning component is a lanolin ester. However this component has
applications in metal working as well. It is well documented as a cutting
tool lubricant, quite helpful in carrying away heat generated from the
tooling process and is an excellent anti corrosion/acid scavenger. Another
major component is a polyol ester, which is a patented boron free, chlor
free, extreme pressure additive. Lastly a primary component of ARX is an
aliphatic ester, similar to what is used as the base oil used in aviation,
due to its extremely high oxidation resistance, but is also quite useful in
oil film formation, and the elimination of fish eyes, or dry spots.

 

[georgeyew]

Frank, thanks for recommeding Pennzoil Platinum. With the winter temps, I really wanted to use a synthetic to speed up the initial flow. So using PP will allow me to run a second clean/rinse cycle without having to compromise the start up wear. I am happy now.