Illinois 15 dollar/hr incremental raise

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Originally Posted by Wolf359
It's an interesting tirade, but how about workers banding together to force higher wages? Or them voting in people who will give it to them.

They're called unions, and they didn't work out so well either. Just ask Gary, Indiana steelworkers, or Detroit auto workers.
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
And you wonder why people say "eff" it and go on social assistance. I don't "hate" the wealthy. I don't "hate" that they have more. I "hate" the proportion.

Why? What does it matter to you how much they have, or how they live? It's not your place to govern their wealth. Let alone have it taken from them because you, or anyone else thinks they have "too much". Stop worrying about what other people have compared to you. You're only making yourself jealous, hateful, and bitter. And people should not be allowed on social assistance because they say, "F it". That is not what it was designed for. And it's one of the biggest reasons this government is going broke. You don't create wealth by having deadbeats sit on their rears collecting it for, "free". Or because they're too P.O.'ed to work.

Originally Posted by StevieC
Why does it need to be that way. Why can we all go to work, be happy and the world go round.

Stop living in a fantasy world. You have had the haves against the have not's since the dawn of the Industrial Revolution. The haves will always fight to keep what they rightfully own. While the have not's will always try to find some way to take it from them. Or have it taken from them by electing a government that will do it for them. If the have not's want more, get better educated, and become worth more. It's that simple. It's just not easy to do. And no one ever said it should be. You control your net worth, not the person hiring you.

Originally Posted by StevieC
I said right out of High School for a reason, and further not everyone can work in the trades the world needs other jobs to go round you know.

Right now the country needs skilled tradesmen, not more lawyers and real estate agents. You go where the work is. And when you are, "right out of high school" you get a job that pays minimum wage. And that wage was NEVER designed to live on.

Originally Posted by StevieC
No one is saying there shouldn't be effort involved but it doesn't have to be a war being fought up-hill for no reason.

It's not being fought for "no reason". Your reason is you think unskilled people should be paid more. The problem is you're not the one paying them. You're trying to be generous with other peoples money. That never works, and it's one of the reasons you want to buy pitchforks for everyone. Or should those be stolen or given out as well?
 
Actually most of the low paying jobs are in the fast food and restaurant Industries. I'm not sure how many of those jobs you could necessarily automate away or send to other countries.

As far as being inflationary the easiest way for people to avoid that is to not eat fast food or go out to eat at restaurants.

It just sounds like many people want to kick the poor when they're down. Keep them working alow-wage jobs and they ought to be thankful they have a job l. Keep them tye working poor but don't give them any assistance to help them have a decent living or have health care.

I would rather see them working and making decent wages instead of getting a handout.
 
It's not just the poor that ought to get paid better it's the middle class as well both skilled and unskilled. The working poor and middle class has seen stagnant to little wage growth.

Seeking maximum profit at the expense of workers to enrich the investor class makes wealth and income inequality worse. All we're saying is white not raise All Ships not just the few.
 
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Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by Wolf359
It's an interesting tirade, but how about workers banding together to force higher wages? Or them voting in people who will give it to them.

They're called unions, and they didn't work out so well either. Just ask Gary, Indiana steelworkers, or Detroit auto workers.


They worked great until Corp America figured out they could exploit other workers and the environment of other countries. Greed does that.
 
Originally Posted by ZZman
It's not just the poor that ought to get paid better it's the middle class as well both skilled and unskilled. The working poor and middle class has seen stagnant to little wage growth.

Seeking maximum profit at the expense of workers to enrich the investor class makes wealth and income inequality worse. All we're saying is white not raise All Ships not just the few.

Wasn't it a famous person (because we can't talk names here) that said something about corporate tax cuts and that it was supposed to raise all ships... What a scam that was eh?

Funny how that was ok then and when it didn't work it became the working class fault and we should all blame them for not trying....
smirk2.gif


The rise in populism is directly tied to what is going on financially with people, nothing affects them more than their pocketbooks and if we continue to leave things as they are and continue to blame those having a tough time and tell them they just have to work harder it's going to get ugly.
 
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Originally Posted by billt460


Life is like war, in the sense only the strongest, best trained and equipped soldiers will survive. Weak uneducated people are owed nothing just because they are weak and uneducated. They will be slaughtered in the workplace by better trained workers who possess greater value to the people who are hiring them.



Man 460, care about humanity or your fellow Americans much? You know, We the People not Me the person?

We aren't savage animals. We are more intelligent than that, have emotions, and should be more caring.
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
Having been a business owner yes, but there is a difference between giant conglomerates and the small business person. And when I was in business I always paid more.
Further the big giant corporations today have people running it that didn't start them from the ground up. (Very few exceptions to this)


Considering the hysterics against business, and non-stop class envy mantra, I find being a business owner very hard to believe.
 
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Originally Posted by ZZman
Originally Posted by billt460


Life is like war, in the sense only the strongest, best trained and equipped soldiers will survive. Weak uneducated people are owed nothing just because they are weak and uneducated. They will be slaughtered in the workplace by better trained workers who possess greater value to the people who are hiring them.



Man 460, care about humanity or your fellow Americans much? You know, We the People not Me the person?

We aren't savage animals. We are more intelligent than that, have emotions, and should be more caring.


Enough with the nobody cares as much as you...

What's YOUR tax rate? and how much do YOU donate to charitable causes every year?
 
Originally Posted by 02SE


What's YOUR tax rate? and how much do YOU donate to charitable causes every year?


Maybe 12 % effective.
Not much because I am still trying to pay off debt.

In my defense I don't complain about taxes. I pay what they say I owe. I don't ask for a tax cut. I would rather have my tax money going for what it is needed for including helping others.

I am no more caring than most and probably less. It just makes logical sense to help those at the bottom not those at the top who are doing just fine and need no help. Do you treat/help the healthy or the sick?

I don't know you at all 02SE. You may be a totally awesome business owner and boss. I sure hope so.
 
Originally Posted by 02SE
Originally Posted by StevieC
Having been a business owner yes, but there is a difference between giant conglomerates and the small business person. And when I was in business I always paid more.
Further the big giant corporations today have people running it that didn't start them from the ground up. (Very few exceptions to this)


Considering the hysterics against business, and non-stop class envy mantra, I find being a business owner very hard to believe.

I have mentioned here before that I had my own computer company and sold it in 2005 and then went on to have a restaurant where I was part owner and an operator. I sold both my computer company for a profit and we sold the restaurant for a profit I then went on to work for the brand my restaurant was associated with. There are members here that have met me in person at one of the franchise locations for the brand I used to for / owned a restaurant under. I still have an incorporated company (like an L.L.C.) here but it's really a holding company for my rental property and small business stuff I do on the side. I have nothing to hide.
 
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Originally Posted by ZZman
Originally Posted by 02SE


What's YOUR tax rate? and how much do YOU donate to charitable causes every year?


Maybe 12 % effective.
Not much because I am still trying to pay off debt.

In my defense I don't complain about taxes. I pay what they say I owe. I don't ask for a tax cut. I would rather have my tax money going for what it is needed for including helping others.

I am no more caring than most and probably less. It just makes logical sense to help those at the bottom not those at the top who are doing just fine and need no help. Do you treat/help the healthy or the sick?

I don't know you at all 02SE. You may be a totally awesome business owner and boss. I sure hope so.


So you're paying far less in taxes at a much lower tax rate than me. How can you be so callous to those in need?

Yes, you don't complain about YOUR taxes, but you definitely DO complain about how much in taxes OTHERS are paying. Others that are paying a much higher tax rate than you.

I also donate to charitable causes every year. At least 10% of my income.

I am no longer a business owner with many employees. I sold the business I started with no help from anyone else, and made a success. The last I heard (years ago) the employees I had miss the days when I was the owner. That business wasn't my first career, either.

These days I have a consulting business to pursue my hobby with two employees: Me and my wife.

Bottom line: Maybe before you tell (shame) others about what THEY should be doing as far as helping their fellow man, take a look at yourself.
 
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Originally Posted by 02SE
Originally Posted by ZZman
Originally Posted by 02SE


What's YOUR tax rate? and how much do YOU donate to charitable causes every year?


Maybe 12 % effective.
Not much because I am still trying to pay off debt.

In my defense I don't complain about taxes. I pay what they say I owe. I don't ask for a tax cut. I would rather have my tax money going for what it is needed for including helping others.

I am no more caring than most and probably less. It just makes logical sense to help those at the bottom not those at the top who are doing just fine and need no help. Do you treat/help the healthy or the sick?

I don't know you at all 02SE. You may be a totally awesome business owner and boss. I sure hope so.


So you're paying far less in taxes at a much lower tax rate than me. How can you be so callous to those in need?

Yes, you don't complain about YOUR taxes, but you definitely DO complain about how much in taxes OTHERS are paying. Others that are paying a much higher tax rate than you.

I also donate to charitable causes every year. At least 10% of my income.

I am no longer a business owner with many employees. I sold the business I started with no help from anyone else, and made a success. The last I heard (years ago) the employees I had miss the days when I was the owner. That business wasn't my first career, either.

These days I have a consulting business to pursue my hobby with two employees: Me and my wife.

Bottom line: Maybe before you tell (shame) others about what THEY should be doing as far as helping their fellow man, take a look at yourself.


That is awesome. Giving 10% is great. Hats off to you.

I pay far less in taxes because obviously I make much less than you. I am sure over the course of our lives you made way more than me. Probably millions more. Like most people my career/Profession choice paid average middle class wages.

It really isn't the amount of taxes people pay that matters, it's what they have left to live on. I am sure you have lots more to live on than I do. That is o.k. I feel fortunate to have my pension, part time jobs, and half our healthcare paid for.

You could tax a billionaire 90%. (I don't advocate that) and they would still have 100 million dollars to live on. Would they suffer compared to the Average American that struggles to get by? Of course not.

Have a person making 30,000 a year pay no taxes and they still only have 30,000 to live on.
 
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Originally Posted by StevieC
Wasn't it a famous person (because we can't talk names here) that said something about corporate tax cuts and that it was supposed to raise all ships... What a scam that was eh?


Companies don't pay tax. If you increase corporate taxes, those companies cut wages, increase prices, or cut dividends to shareholders (or some combination of those things). Employees, customers and shareholders are the ones who pay corporate taxes.

Or they just do as US companies had been for years, and keep their profits overseas, in countries with low or no corporate tax. If I remember correctly, they brought something like $500,000,000,000 into the US since the recent tax cuts, because it made sense to do so at the reduced tax rates and they no longer needed to keep it overseas.

The other option is to... not make a profit. Take the money and shovel it back into the business, rather than giving it to shareholders. This is something that business--particularly big business--can do, that individuals can't (except by not having an income).
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
They used to pay taxes here just a few decades ago... We need to fix the broken loops.


You would think they could simply outlaw offshoring. Give huge penalties for it and lock up the CEO/CFO if caught doing it.
 
Originally Posted by ZZman
Originally Posted by StevieC
They used to pay taxes here just a few decades ago... We need to fix the broken loops.


You would think they could simply outlaw offshoring. Give huge penalties for it and lock up the CEO/CFO if caught doing it.

Problem is that the corporations own the government. That's all I will say for fear of the thread getting locked.
 
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by Wolf359
It's an interesting tirade, but how about workers banding together to force higher wages? Or them voting in people who will give it to them.

They're called unions, and they didn't work out so well either. Just ask Gary, Indiana steelworkers, or Detroit auto workers.


There are always examples of companies that made it and didn't make it. Look at Toys R Us or Sears, leveraged buyouts saddled with high debt and basic mismanagement. There will always be unions that vote themselves out of a job. A small percentage that fail doesn't mean the entire thing is a failure.

You can also vote for politicians that don't keep their promises, like Bush's read my lips quote.

I understand your position, but your positions actually work the other way around too. I think you're too close to see that. If you push survival of the fittest, that also means that if a group bands against you, then you also deserve to die.
 
[/quote]

You would think they could simply outlaw offshoring. Give huge penalties for it and lock up the CEO/CFO if caught doing it. [/quote]



if only things were that easy.....
 
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