Ijust remembered why I don't like taking my car to

[Throckmorton]

I took my '03 Accord V6 to the dealer to replace the timing belt. What I hate is their effort to bump up their sales.

Here is what they wanted to upsell me on:

* $445 to adjust the valves (even though they aren't noisy and my fuel mileage & performance are the same as new).

* $180 to replace the spark plugs.

After they had the car on a lift they told me I had a bad engine mount and a leak in my power steering hose.

* $289 for a hose

* $180 for an engine mount.

I checked the power steering reservoir and the fluid was exactly half between full and empty. Why was the engine taken off the mount anyway?

I think I'm being conned. Aaarrrgh!

 

[eljefino]

They probably took it off the mount for access by lifting or dropping the motor an inch. Some mounts even go through the timing belt area... dodge 2.2/2.5s come to mind.

I would not be suprised though if the flat rate tech removed say 2 of 4 mounts and let the motor hang stressing the other mounts then declared they were "shot".

To the dealer's credit, there are perfectionists for whom a new PS line would be appropriate, and they would wonder why it was not called to their attention.

 

[Jeepster_nut]

No good [censored] dealers

 

[The Critic]

$180 to replace plugs is reasonable for that car.

The valve adjustment price is on the higher side. Usually it's 2.5-3 hours labor so I would've expected the price in the $300-range, not $445. Valves can get tight and still need adjustment, and you will not notice.

Bad mounts can be detected visually as evident by cracks or fluid leakage. You don't need to remove all of the mounts to do a timing belt job on that car-- just a mount bracket. And bad mounts are not uncommon on Honda V6 vehicles.

And neither are P/S issues.

And I just hate how people automatically assume that the dealer is ripping you off when in fact, they are likely to be legitimate repairs for this type of car.

 

[mechtech2]

Those are high prices.
But...
If they did NOT tell you about these things, you might complain.
If they DID tell you about them, you might complain.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Those are high prices.


Says who? On what basis? Because Joe Redneck corner mechanic who has not seen a car newer than 1995 charges $40/hr?

Most dealers and shops here are at about $120/hr. Some are as high as $160/hr.

Originally Posted By: mechtech2

But...
If they did NOT tell you about these things, you might complain.
If they DID tell you about them, you might complain.

Darned if you do, darned if you don't.

 

[Stu_Rock]

Critic, you are right about labor cost where we live. It's probably much cheaper in Texas.

 

[Bill in Utah]

If people don't pay the ridiculous labor charge then they will learn or go out of business.

No one in an Stealership is worth $120-$160 an hour. Period. Esp for a CAR!

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
If people don't pay the ridiculous labor charge then they will learn or go out of business.

No one is worth $120-$160 an hour. Period. Esp for a CAR!



And may I ask what makes you qualified to determine that no one is worth $120-$160/hr?

The market has also said that it is an appropriate price to pay, at least in this area.

Also, keep in mind the costs of operating a legitimate, highly trained auto repair service, not BITOG style hackjob auto repair. Overheard is high for any dealership or independent auto shop. You have to supply customers with loaners, hire service staff, pay to send technicians to factory training classes, etc.

 

[mechanicx]

I think it depends on the going labor rate in the area. That just might be the going rate in some parts of Cali, I don't know. The mechanic doesn't get $120/hr. He'd be lucky to get over $20. But valve adjustments on all their engines and timing belts still on the V6 is what I got against owning a Honda. My solution is to not own a car that needs this kind of maintenance.

 

[ahoier]

Thios is exactly why I like dealers

They will notice nit-picky stuff like this wrong with the vehicles they are servicing.

If you do your own oil changes, or take your vehicle to various "Quick Lube" places they likely will not touch those areas let alone LOOK at those areas of the vehicle.

By taking the vehicle to the dealer, it gives you a relationship with the dealer, after a couple visits they will get to know you, your car, and the way you drive.

Even if you don't want the dealer to do the service, you could always take the dealer-recommended services to another shop, mechanic, or back-yard mechanic of sorts and see what they would charge to take a look at the "problem" areas that the dealer noted.


Infact, my 88 Dodge Aries has been having some strange problems lately, seems like it's running rich, has a high idle in Neutral and Park; once it's in Drive it runs GREAT though....I just called up our local Chrysler Dodge Jeep Eagle dealer for their "30 thousand mile service" curious what all they do, and they told me just an oil change, and check out the belts, hoses, etc.....


All in all, just take the knowledge gained elsewhere, or DIY if you feel comfortable doing the job, or feel the change is necessary.

It all comes down to liability too.....I know even quick lube places have to "notate" recommended services based on the condition of the vehicle.

I was at Walmart the other day and a lady was complaining that TLE was "upselling her" on a bulb install.....lol. Give me a break, it's only $5 for a bulb install, plus the bulb purchase. If it's out, they notate it, and obviously recommend fixing it

But yea, If I decide to take it in, I'll be expecting an upsell

There's only 30k on the car, but has been sitting in the Florida heat for most of it's life, lots of city driving....if the dudes that KNOW my car recommend a service, it's most likely needed. They call it "preventative" maintenance for a reason

BTW, did I mention? They quoted me $29 for a "Chrysler Oil" oil service. Not bad for an oil change, WM TLE charges $30 here.....hehe. And then I'll also get a good "once-over" of the vehicle too and perhaps some suggestions.

I want the car to last a long time

 

[Boomer]

And don't forget all of the equipment a dealer has to buy. My old Chevy dealer once showed me all the tools he was forced to buy by GM to service all of the GEOs that were sold through the Chevrolet dealership. He had almost a million invested in those, new computers, new lifts to get the oil reservoirs out of the ground, etc. All of those decisions were made for him by someone else. It does have an effect on the hourly charge, believe it or not.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Dealers vary too much to lump them all together.

Some are excellent, going way beyond any other facility. Others are a terrible experience from beginning to end.

If you found a good one use it.

 

[M Smith]

I might ordinarily agree with The Critic, but I can’t seem to reconcile the fact that the hourly billing rate in the Gulfstream Aerospace service center is $120 to the fact an automobile dealership rates $120 - $160. The answer seems quite obvious to me, it is a simple matter of supply and demand in that area.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
If people don't pay the ridiculous labor charge then they will learn or go out of business.

No one in an Stealership is worth $120-$160 an hour. Period. Esp for a CAR!

Those price are not for "someone" in a dealership, they are for the technician, the service writer, the cashier, the lot boy, the courtesy shuttle driver and the overhead.

You can't compare a dealership service department to a smaller independent shop. They are two different entities targeting two entirely different demographics.

Most independent shops don't have the overhead that the dealership does, and are able to charge lower rates. Because of that lower rate they are unable to offer the services that the dealership does such as a courtesy drop off/pickup or a facility as nice as the dealership.

If someone wants the added services that a dealership provides then it's their choice to pay the higher rates, not yours or mine. Same goes for someone that prefers an independent shop over a dealership; their choice is none of my business, nor is it yours.

Simple, eh?

 

[MrCritical]

Critic is correct.

Valves too tight need ajustment just as much as the loose ones.

I can't tell you how many times I've been chewed out by a customer when something fails soon after we inspected their vehicle. They're usually flabbergasted when we pull their old repair order and show them where we recommended a repair or preventative manintenance on the failed item, and they rejected it.

Customer's are always getting advice from their neighbor who never did anything but change the oil on their Honda or Toyota every 10k miles, and it ran for twenty years.

What they meant is that it would still start and accelerate. It didn't run like it should, didn't get the fuel mileage, didn't have the acceleration it should, and every warning light on the instrument cluster was on.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
If people don't pay the ridiculous labor charge then they will learn or go out of business.

No one is worth $120-$160 an hour. Period. Esp for a CAR!



And may I ask what makes you qualified to determine that no one is worth $120-$160/hr?

The market has also said that it is an appropriate price to pay, at least in this area.

Also, keep in mind the costs of operating a legitimate, highly trained auto repair service, not BITOG style hackjob auto repair. Overheard is high for any dealership or independent auto shop. You have to supply customers with loaners, hire service staff, pay to send technicians to factory training classes, etc.


I'm qualified as I'm the CUSTOMER who pays the bill. I'm the one who is going to determine what I feel is the correct amount.

So the "trained" mechanic gets how much? How much for the loaner (which few offer, they offer a van to take you a few miles) How much for the rest of the "stuff"? Here in the end it allows the stealership to buy a NBA franchise so there must be very little profit since those are a dime a dozen.

I've never paid $160 (or $120) per hour for a "tech" and never had a problem getting vehicles to safely go well past 200k. IF I need someone to work on the vehicle, I go to someone who EARNS the correct amount per hour. (and they are not HACKs)

In another thread someone went to the well trained stealership and got 5 quarts of oil in their 4.4qt sump.. Talk about hackjob.

Oh well, you get what you pay for....

 

[KrisZ]

If people in CA feel OK with paying $160/hr, then dealers are not to blame for charging that amount. It doesn't matter if their expanses justify it or not, obviously there are enough rich snobs around to pay the price.

For me, I couldn't care less about my relationship with the dealer, my money is better spent else ware, and at $160/hr, that's one expansive relationship to have for a whole bunch of nothing you get in return.

Sign me up for the hack jobs.

 

[pottymouth]

There was a time in my youth when I believed that the new car dealership was the pinnacle of knowledge and skill when it came to servicing cars. Back then I was too poor to afford this luxury and had to learn how to wrench myself.

Once I had gotten far enough in life that I could afford to pay the dealer, I got a rude awakening. The best dealership service I had was with Nissan in the mid '90's, and it was adequate at best. Had the service manager at a Ford dealership once tell me that the transfer case on my AWD Aerostar didn't work right because I needed to switch it into 4WD every couple of months to keep it lubed up. When I politely asked him to show me how to do this (the van was AWD, not 4WD) he couldn't find a switch and then told me to read the owners manual because he was too busy. Once the warranty was up, they never saw me again.

This is what I think irks so many people about dealership sevice departments. You are paying top dollar, so you expect the best of the best. It too frequently turns out to be a bad experience. Not saying it is impossible to find a good dealer service department, but it still costs way more than doing it myself, even if I account for my time.

So for those of us who can do most of our own service, clearly $120 and hour is ridiculous. I can appreciate the costs of running a service department, but those are the costs of doing business. The dealership still needs to earn my money.

Years ago I took my '90 Ranger in for what I knew were bad ball joints. Of course, they were not covered under warranty. I didn;t have all the tools I would need so I considered paying them to do the job for me. The price was laughable and they told me they needed 3 days. I bought the tools which I have now used numerous times) and did the job on one liesurely Saturday and still spent less.

Evne if the charges were more reasonable, I would still do most things myself. Contrary to the beliefs of some here, I can do just as good if not better quality work in my driveway than the dealer can do. The fact that I keep a lot more money in my pocket is gravy.

 

[Cutehumor]

Stealerships never find anything wrong when you take your vehicle in for a warranty repair. But if your paying, they find everything and anything wrong with your car and wallet flushing is the norm.

P.S I'm glad I own timing chain vehicles. no timing belts for me.