Ignition switch fix would've been $1 per vehicle

[pottymouth]

The car has a manual transmission. It is interlocked with the clutch, but the clutch is used often while driving and some people make painfully long shifts.

You might be right about it being disabled while the car is moving, but I doubt it. That would open a whole new can of worms. What happens if you need to shut the car off while it is moving as was suggested in the runaway Toyota situation?

 

[wag123]

Try it and report back.

 

[pottymouth]

I don't drive it too often, maybe I'll give it a spin this weekend.

 

[pottymouth]

How about the Saab? Is there something that prevents it from shutting off if someone bangs it with their cell phone or drops a purse on it?

My question has to do with the nature of a defect. Is it a defect if unintended use causes an undesirable outcome? I'm sure GM doesn't intend for people to have over a pound of material on their keychain.

I still think GM will be on the hook for this. The fact that they had a standard and ignored it to save money will play well in the courts. Once it was known to be a problem and not corrected seals the deal. For not at least warning customers, I think they deserve what they get.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
What is the purpose of posting that picture? It tells nothing. For all we know the driver was passed out drunk. Do you want to discuss facts or was that an attempt to invoke an emotional reaction?

This is a GM hate thread. Nobody wants to talk facts.

 

[Oregoonian]

GM knew for ten years that this was a defective part, and the re-designs did not meet their specs as well. Yet they continued to use parts that were defective.

The results of their 'no action' was the death of I believe 13 people, and families devastated. Safety wasn't their priority, but saving money was.

It will be a long time before GM gets their reputation back. IMO, car sales, both new and used, will suffer, thus hurting many in the dealerships who will be laid off

Those who have GM cars and are trying to sell them on Craigslist and other places will be hurt as well, not being able to sell or at the least getting a much lower price than expected.\

IMO, the government should never have bailed out GM, because they were failing because of shoddy workmanship, poor management, and things like this (death and heartache) would never have happened.

I have several questions;

1. WOULD YOU PURCHASE A GM made vehicle at this point in time?

2. How long will it be until GM recovers and gets their reputation back.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
What is the purpose of posting that picture? It tells nothing. For all we know the driver was passed out drunk. Do you want to discuss facts or was that an attempt to invoke an emotional reaction?


Oops missed link . Notice the undischarged air bags in the Cobalt. The family is suing GM as the car lost control/inexperienced drivers and slammed a telephone pole killing the driver and front passenger. Interesting test case of suing the new GM for old GM indiscretions.

The idea of too many keys is GMs excuse for poor design and blame the customer.

I have no hate for GM, just despise poor business decision which GM values profits,overpaid execs., overpaid labor over fixing a clear defect.

I still don't undestand why a part is not corrected even without recalling the old?

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: dishdude
What is the purpose of posting that picture? It tells nothing. For all we know the driver was passed out drunk. Do you want to discuss facts or was that an attempt to invoke an emotional reaction?


Oops missed link . Notice the undischarged air bags in the Cobalt. The family is suing GM as the car lost control/inexperienced drivers and slammed a telephone pole killing the driver and front passenger. Interesting test case of suing the new GM for old GM indiscretions.

The idea of too many keys is GMs excuse for poor design and blame the customer.

I have no hate for GM, just despise poor business decision which GM values profits,overpaid execs., overpaid labor over fixing a clear defect
I still don't undestand why a part is not corrected even without recalling the old?


As has been said multiple times, they didn't consider the lower torque required to turn to be a critical thing. Whether you consider it a valid argument or not isn't the point, because ALL manufacturers do it. You may not like to believe it, but this is indeed the case. These are businesses, that are in the business of making money.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: dishdude
What is the purpose of posting that picture? It tells nothing. For all we know the driver was passed out drunk. Do you want to discuss facts or was that an attempt to invoke an emotional reaction?


Oops missed link . Notice the undischarged air bags in the Cobalt. The family is suing GM as the car lost control/inexperienced drivers and slammed a telephone pole killing the driver and front passenger. Interesting test case of suing the new GM for old GM indiscretions.

The idea of too many keys is GMs excuse for poor design and blame the customer.

I have no hate for GM, just despise poor business decision which GM values profits,overpaid execs., overpaid labor over fixing a clear defect
I still don't undestand why a part is not corrected even without recalling the old?


As has been said multiple times, they didn't consider the lower torque required to turn to be a critical thing. Whether you consider it a valid argument or not isn't the point, because ALL manufacturers do it. You may not like to believe it, but this is indeed the case. These are businesses, that are in the business of making money.


They are in business of recalling 2.6 million cars which likely about $50/car if not more. They are spending how much attempting to contact 2.6 million owners(assume $1/each). How are they making money? Oh I forgot image tarnishing of what people always thought of GM before , shoddy/save a buck cars. I know not the case currently but they suffer an image problem.

This will cost them at least a billion as a guess.

 

[dishdude]

A few years ago it was Toyota, before that Ford...it happens. In those cases I think the media and the government blew both out of proportion a bit, and the same is happening here.

The roads are dangerous, hundreds of people die on them each day.

 

[Sam2000]

From what I've read, GM knowingly accepted a part that was below their spec. An engineer rejected updating the part because of the expense and put off the upgrade until 2009.

And when the part was upgraded, the part number was not changed and internal GM procedures were not followed. The lack of a part number change prevented GM from identifying the problem once the reports of ignitions switching off were reported.

Not following procedures and skimping on quality happens all the time and when the combination of factors is right, it will come back and bite you.

A question worth asking is whether cars should be designed to turn off airbags when still in motion but with the ignition off.

 

[jrustles]

classic. Barra gets installed before the time that all the recall poop is designated to hit the fan. I bet that up until recently, she felt real lucky and fortunate about her career.

 

[pottymouth]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: dishdude
What is the purpose of posting that picture? It tells nothing. For all we know the driver was passed out drunk. Do you want to discuss facts or was that an attempt to invoke an emotional reaction?


Oops missed link . Notice the undischarged air bags in the Cobalt. The family is suing GM as the car lost control/inexperienced drivers and slammed a telephone pole killing the driver and front passenger. Interesting test case of suing the new GM for old GM indiscretions.

The idea of too many keys is GMs excuse for poor design and blame the customer.

I have no hate for GM, just despise poor business decision which GM values profits,overpaid execs., overpaid labor over fixing a clear defect.

I still don't undestand why a part is not corrected even without recalling the old?


More agenda-driven journalism. There were two crashes referred to in this article. In both, the occupants of the car were not wearing their seatbelts. One was legally drunk and travelling 69mph in a 25mph zone.

Doesn't lessen the tragedy any, but it makes me wonder how many more of these incidents involve other contributing factors. Had these girls been wearing their seatbelts, perhaps the outcome would have been vastly different. Airbags are called "supplemental restraint systems" for a reason. They are there to add additional protection to the primary safety device, the seatbelt.

So while we're crucifying GM, how about we point out the actions that these poor kids could have taken before the crash than might have allowed them to survive.

 

[Sam2000]

Originally Posted By: jrustles
classic. Barra gets installed before the time that all the recall poop is designated to hit the fan. I bet that up until recently, she felt real lucky and fortunate about her career.

This is a great career and business opportunity for her. Any drop in sales or profit cannot now be her fault. She is free to spend on recalls and compensation. And she has the green light to fire, reorganize and bring in new people.

And she seems to have the right personality for such a crisis. Her empathy will raise her profile, people will be sympathetic to her and after a few years, the new GM will have redeemed itself in the public eye. And even if GM doesn't do well, her personal brand will be fine.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Win
Why people want massive weight hanging off a key ring is beyond me, but it's very sad for the people involved, regardless.

And that's the thing. GM, as I mentioned before, "perfect" the ignition switch issue decades ago. Thieves ruined things, and people do demand more features. As much as I'll state that the old GM system was "perfected," I also love the idea of leaving my Infiniti key fob in my pocket and using RFID to open the door, trunk, and start the engine, without every having to touch the fob at all.

But, it is more complex, and issues are always possible. And overloaded key rings have been an issue for many, many years already. I insist in automotive keys alone being on a ring - nothing else. I had taxis go hundreds of thousands of miles without needing ignition switch work. Other people have to keep ten pounds of garbage on their ring and wonder why it fails, and that's across brand lines.

 

[Whitewolf]

Correct.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: pottymouth
Originally Posted By: rjundi
Originally Posted By: dishdude
What is the purpose of posting that picture? It tells nothing. For all we know the driver was passed out drunk. Do you want to discuss facts or was that an attempt to invoke an emotional reaction?


Oops missed link . Notice the undischarged air bags in the Cobalt. The family is suing GM as the car lost control/inexperienced drivers and slammed a telephone pole killing the driver and front passenger. Interesting test case of suing the new GM for old GM indiscretions.

The idea of too many keys is GMs excuse for poor design and blame the customer.

I have no hate for GM, just despise poor business decision which GM values profits,overpaid execs., overpaid labor over fixing a clear defect.

I still don't undestand why a part is not corrected even without recalling the old?


More agenda-driven journalism. There were two crashes referred to in this article. In both, the occupants of the car were not wearing their seatbelts. One was legally drunk and travelling 69mph in a 25mph zone.

Doesn't lessen the tragedy any, but it makes me wonder how many more of these incidents involve other contributing factors. Had these girls been wearing their seatbelts, perhaps the outcome would have been vastly different. Airbags are called "supplemental restraint systems" for a reason. They are there to add additional protection to the primary safety device, the seatbelt.

So while we're crucifying GM, how about we point out the actions that these poor kids could have taken before the crash than might have allowed them to survive.


Air bag failed for then unknown reasons. Now obvious GM ignored a safety defect irrelevant to actions of driver. It would be a non issue if the car had its air bags deployed but it did not.

Furthermore what

 

[grampi]

I don't understand why people take sides in these threads...it seems like everyone in this forum is either pro-domestic and anti-foreign, or vise versa...why do you people defend certain brands tooth and nail no matter what they do? Are you paid by them to do so? People who are brand loyal crack me up...I buy whatever suits my needs at the time I need to buy a vehicle, and if my research tells me brand X is better than brand Y at that particular time, that's what I buy...

 

[zzyzzx]

More importantly, at some point does GM stock become a buy for short term opportunities, and if so when? Also, if one is interested in buying a used car affected by the recall, does this potentially make getting one of these a better deal?

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: Oregoonian
1. WOULD YOU PURCHASE A GM made vehicle at this point in time?

Yes. Many different models.