If/when electrics take over

[EdwardC]

Originally Posted by Gasbuggy
Very possible, also, you may see some gas applied taxes switch to mileage taxes since electric cars don't use fuel but contribute just as much to use and degradation of public roads.



They're already trying to get that in place here in Illinois. We currently have discounted yearly registration of only $17.50 for electric vehicles ($98 for gas), they want to raise the EV registration fee to $1,000 ($148 for gas). They also want to raise the state gas tax as well. I agree that EV drivers need to pay their share for the infrastructure improvements, but that's a little extreme. Not to mention tax increases as a band-aid for other spending issues in this state.

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by 69GTX
And it's not like electric cars are close to being environmentally friendly since >60% of the energy to recharge those batteries is still coming from fossil fuels. There is no sizable amount of "clean" energy plants waiting to be built to replace that power structure....certainly not in 12 yrs. Solar and wind have their own environmental problems. The environmental cost to recycle huge electric car batteries is not negligible...nor clean. And the biggest "surprise" is that since we don't have a bubble around the US, the more heavily polluted air from other continents eventually mixes with our air.



This argument doesn't hold as much water as it used to being that coal power generation has been in a steep decline and replaced with NatGas. Especially in dense urban areas where the overwhelming majority of vehicles are located.



Your buddy helped with that ^^^^^^^^^^

And in a rare moment of complete honesty he said electric bills would skyrocket if what he proposed actually would happen. . .
Why does his friend still fly around in a private plane that uses more fuel in one cross country trip back and forth than the average citizen uses throughout a total year ??

Secret answer... He don't believe in that stuff either. He just has made lots of $$$$ off of it.

 

[aquariuscsm]

It'll never happen. That kind've infrastructure isn't possible. We'd have to go back to the Stone Age and start over from scratch.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Every major car maker is developing an electric car.

 

[geekster]

I keep thinking that it would to take some type of climate catastrophe that bridges the political and global divide and gets everyone on the "together" page before any real immediate changes happen.

Until then, I think it's going to be a slow and steady approach to switch to electric from ICE.

 

[4WD]

The average age of vehicles (on the US road) is a factor in what the pace should be … not going to be rushed by some loudmouth from somewhere else …

 

[JeffKeryk]

I see electric vehicles and renewable energy in general as a huge opportunity.
Jobs jobs jobs. Good jobs... New infrastructure. More jobs.
Lead the world.

Or sit back and watch someone else do it.

Full transparency; I am thinking of another Tesla... They are addicting.
Long range performance model; 0 to 60 in 3.2 seconds... Sheesh!

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

This argument doesn't hold as much water as it used to ........


HINT: coal is NOT going away anytime soon. No matter how/what green-earthers scream out - it's here to stay for quite some time.


https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/?page=us_energy_home


You obviously haven't been looking very closely at charts like this:

Actually I have better charts. Your figures are nationwide which isn't relevant because you have to drill down to individual region. Take the State of California for example. California has the most automobile registrations in the country and almost twice that of the next two states below them (Texas,Fla). California has no coal plants. Fla/Texas have some coal but the majority are in the less populous areas of the country. As I said there are significantly more vehicles in areas w/out coal power than there are in areas which have coal power as their sole energy source.

https://www.statista.com/statistics...gistered-automobiles-in-the-us-by-state/

California can not provide power to their existing customers your example has worked against you.

 

[RayCJ]

When (if) nuclear fusion power generation becomes a reality and when major advancements to the grid/distribution system are done then, ICE can go away. At the least, fusion power generation is 30-40 years away. Until then, there will be an increasing number of all-electric vehicles but they will limited by the existing means of generating electricity. I suspect continued advancements in hybrid vehicles will dominate over the next 30-40 years.


Ray

 

[4WD]

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/291441-another-day-another-tesla-car-fire-this-one-in-hong-kong

 

[P10crew]

Pimtac you are exactly spot on. Spot on!

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by PimTac
California has the idea of not building power plants in their state but in neighboring states.

California is very dependent on hydro from the PNW, nuclear from Arizona and water from the Colorado. Maybe it's time they became self sufficient.


The energy market is highly regulated at both the state and federal level and the Federal Govt owns all navigable waterways as well as some hydro power (ex, Hoover Dam, Grand Coulee). That being said California is blessed with good climate for solar and changes in their building codes are going to result in more residential solar. Residential solar along with storage will go a long way towards energy independence.


To do that at home, you'll be paying 30c/KWh (cost of panels and storage)...losing 20% of those KWh in storage, and another 20% when you charge your car...

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted by dave1251
California can not provide power to their existing customers your example has worked against you.


Thus their new time of use tarrfis...which makes charging your EV overninght VERY expensive...OK if you are a vampire doing blood deliveries at night...not so good for the rest of us.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by dave1251
California can not provide power to their existing customers your example has worked against you.


Thus their new time of use tarrfis...which makes charging your EV overninght VERY expensive...OK if you are a vampire doing blood deliveries at night...not so good for the rest of us.




This new idea of the time of use has crept into our local HOV Pay lanes. The tolls go up during the peak hours and also if traffic is bad. I definitely see this happening with electricity demand.

This is where a small fuel cell for a residence could make some sense. Make your own electricity.

 

[IMPALA08]

The greenies and three humpers want to run your life.

 

[meep]

I think the thoughts that "it will never happen because the grid can't handle it" are short sighted. It's not like we had gas stations everywhere before ICE cars came about.

Utilities as they see more demand and new market will have more revenue with which to upgrade infrastructure.

My ex owned a hybrid escape and it was a great experience. Cheap to run, was a very nice vehicle for a reasonable price - I think we paid 29k for it new. Less than any 4 seater pickup which mostly sees grocery and maybe mulch duty. I was sad when she sold it, just on principal. I'd be tickled to later own a compact/midsize BEV in a few years for daily use when a name-brand oem I like comes out with one. I'd keep the truck for tow duty and utility use, if we're still doing that sort of thing.

I'm personally warm and fuzzy to volvo and continue to like their styling. A 10 year plan for a volvo BEV is in mind. When they stick BEV in an s60 or s80, I'll be very interested, if we can even buy sedans by then. I've enjoyed the 2 of our 3 volvos immensely, and the one odd duck really wasn't its fault. Plug it in in the garage, avoid gas station stops, and at least then take the wife's car for long distance travel.

OR - maybe a small gennie as a "range extender" on a bumper tray to extend highway range, if such a thing could be devised. I thought the volt had a great strategy with an onboard genset for improving range. it wouldn't need to be much to make a difference.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by PimTac
California has the idea of not building power plants in their state but in neighboring states.

California is very dependent on hydro from the PNW, nuclear from Arizona and water from the Colorado. Maybe it's time they became self sufficient.


The energy market is highly regulated at both the state and federal level and the Federal Govt owns all navigable waterways as well as some hydro power (ex, Hoover Dam, Grand Coulee). That being said California is blessed with good climate for solar and changes in their building codes are going to result in more residential solar. Residential solar along with storage will go a long way towards energy independence.


To do that at home, you'll be paying 30c/KWh (cost of panels and storage)...losing 20% of those KWh in storage, and another 20% when you charge your car...


I'm not certain what you're trying to say.

California residential code essentially requires new homes to be net-zero and builders are going to reach that goal by adding solar. The panels are going to come with the house and at the moment appear to end up in the purchase price. Because they're part of the purchase price the cost will be amortized over 30 yrs by way of the mortgage loan.

 

[PimTac]

"I think the thoughts that "it will never happen because the grid can't handle it" are short sighted. It's not like we had gas stations everywhere before ICE cars came about."





That whole infrastructure took multiple decades to build up. People didn't rush out to buy automobiles as they were expensive. For a long time there was a mix of cars and horse drawn wagons on the roads.

The real peak occurred after WW2 and when the Interstate Highway System was started. In my childhood the one car household was the norm and many still didn't own one.


I see the same happening with electrics. It will be over a long period of time. There is nothing wrong with that. Infrastructure needs to be planned and built. There should be no hurry to ditch the gasoline engine for electric.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted by IMPALA08
The greenies and three humpers want to run your life.


I imagine you're too young to remember when the finger lakes of NY were dying off from acid rain induced by coal emissions from the Midwest.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Again, I see huge opportunity in renewable energy.

CA is the 5th largest economy in the world.
We can and will develop this technology.
I love my solar panels.
Expensive? In the short run, yes. In the long run, a great investment.

You know, we are only here for a short time.
Future generations need air to breathe.

Just my 2 cents.