I need help (long)

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i need help both legaly and mentally now
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i would appreciate any help in the legal regards of thsi matter and also if adding a thicker gear oil would "baind-aid" the problem. Please read below and add any comments.


This is the letter i wrote to the vice president of SUBARU OR AMERICA:

Dear Mr Adcock,

Monday, I dropped off my car for a first gear grind from a stop. This has been happening since I have owned the car. Gillman Subaru under the authorization of Tim Powers recommended a fluid change to the new "Subaru" fluid. This significantly helped the problem but did not fix it. The change was done at 7289 miles (initial complaint had been made at 2K). However every prior attempt had only ended up with me being pushed out the door. Another significant addition to the problem is one of the Subaru techs had confirmed with Roger Mathews that it is an internal problem. Fluid was changed and I gave it a chance.



Now at 27K miles the problem is still there and I went to Austin Subaru to have the issue resolved "internally". However I was told this time that the claim has been denied because of an aftermarket exhaust and short throw shifter. I have asked the dealer for how these items would cause this to malfunction (the 1st gear synchronizer). An answer was not given. Under the magnuson moss act I have a right to receive this information or have SOA fix this under warranty. I have asked for either this information in writing or a meeting to be set up with Tim Powers to discuss the magnuson moss act and/or claim denial reasons. However this has taken more than 2 days to contact him and see if he will meet for the issue.



I have also contacted your company though the normal escalation route with not resolution. I have tried to explain my case several times and asked for at least a logical explanation of cause and effect of these parts on the car. I have also asked why a preexisting problem would not be addressed since it only proves that it was a defect off the showroom floor. I could understand if I had broken a gear or destroyed my transmission but this is caused by one of to things. Either a bad synchronizer or a bent shift fork. Neither one is affected by an increase in torque or horsepower. And as stated earlier, this characteristic was present even before the modifications were done.



I am also pretty sure you are aware, just as I am, of the Magnuson Moss Act which states this failures has to be proven to link to the part sin question. And since no one is willing to listen I am emailing you to try and resolve this on the appropriate level.



I also feel that you are not really aware of how many WRX owners feel. The majority of us love our cars. Most of us also feel there is room for improvement but there is room in everything for that. This is why some will modify a product no matter what it is. Look at the computer industry (which is where I work). I have never once refused to replace a bad part for an aftermarket part. I will ask them to return it to the original specifications to verify the part in question is not causing the problem (and that is if the part would be able to cause that . IE you would not blame a keyboard for the mouse not responding unless the mouse is connected to the computer though keyboard. This is just common sense with the flow of electricity.) This method of troubleshooting is industry wide. When trying to explain this to the people at 1-800-SUABRU3 I was quickly shut down saying the extra Horsepower is what caused the issue and that was it. I even tried explaining how power is transferred though the transmission and how the synchronizer has no connection to the power output. I have also obtained an email from the exhaust company stating their product would not cause this failure. Yet I continue to try and help Subaru understand what kind of problem this is.



Please Help me get this resolved. I honestly am just asking SUBARU to fix a problem that was preexisting.





Waiting to hear form you.



Thank you,

Joseph




I would appreciate anything that can get me though this.
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It sounds like you've done almost everything possible in terms of escalating this through Subaru. Letters often mean a lot, especially when directed to the right people. If you don't hear back from this Mr. Adcock, my next step would be to write a similar letter to his boss and CC Mr. Adcock. If that still didn't work, your only other remedies would be to suck it up and pay for the repair or pursue the problem through legal channels. You would have to consult a lawyer about that, though. Perhaps ekpolk or another lawyer on the board will have some good advice in that area.

I'd remain hopeful that the letter will get some results, though. You've explained your case well and, IMHO, came across as a loyal owner who only wants a problem rectified. The only smart thing for Subaru to do is to respond one way or the other. You should have a response from them soon.
 
The WRX transmission is a weak point in the car unfortunately.

Subaru has had many claims some likely legit but many I bet resulting from too much HP from mods or downright abuse. You are pursuing the right path if you can explain why your parts did not affect the transmission.

Looking from Subaru's Side:
If the exhaust does increase HP then they have one item on their side. Also was the short throw kit a Subaru part or non-OEM? This part could have had a large influence if on damage to transmission and if not correctly installed.

Good luck and keep pressing. Subaru I think is getting burned on warranty claims and unfortunately you are getting the flak.
 
short shifter was installed only 3 weeks ago. 2 weeks from the time the claim was denied.

Howver no one stated if a thicker oil (85-140 royal purple is what i was planning to try) would remedy or "baind aid" the problem without any issues. I know thicker oil will reduce bearing life but it "should" definatly help the synchro catch.

please keep the responses coming. any advise is going to be useful.


and if a lawyer is able to respond would the statement "SOA won't not be covering this under warranty" be valid in a court of law or would this fall under " in the spirit it was written".

thank for your support.


P.S. and here is the letter i recieved from APS in case in anybody needs it for similar reasons in the future.

Joseph,



Thanks for your email. I am sorry, but I did not realise that the Dealer was blaming the massive increase in power, resulting from the installation of our exhaust, for your noise! I thought they were denying the noise was even in the gearbox! (ie. exhaust/body contact).



If the only change to your car from stock is our exhaust system, then what the dealership are saying is that a 6.5% increase in torque is sufficient to cause premature transmission component failure. If this were true (which it self evidently is not), Subarus would be junk and not worth buying!!



However, after modifying WRXs worldwide for over ten years, we can tell you where the transmission issues do start, in normal street usage. It is at around a 30% increase over stock torque.



Best regards,

David Inall.



[ September 03, 2004, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: scoobdude ]
 
I'm surprised you have to put up with so much BS. It doesn't say much for the dealership, or even Subaru. I hope you get the problem fixed under warranty and never buy a Subaru again.
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The cleanest way to do this is probably to get the transmission fixed by someone who really knows his stuff and bite the bullet and just pay for it. Then take the dealer,and/or, Subaru to Small Claims court. No lawyers and the $5000 Max payment should more than cover the cost of repairs. It Might help to get the transmission repair guy to be a witness if he will support the claim that the problem was indeed a manufacturing defect and not caused by any aftermarket accesories. The worst that can happen is your bank account will be a little lighter and your car will drive properly. The best that can happen is that you get your money back and your car drives properly.
 
quote:

Originally posted by friendly_jacek:
I thought that people modding their cars accept the fact that major modds void warranty.
I guess I was wrong.


THOSE ARE MAJOR MODS?
 
From what I have read, mostly on the internet, the MM act doesn't do much to protect us. Not only does the manufacture have to show your at fault (they already have) you have to show your not at fault. How are you going to prove that? The after market guys probably don't want to get into an expensive court fight so don't count on them for much more than moral support. If Subar decides to fight you it probably won't be in small claims court.

They probably would have to go to an arbitration, I have read something like that.

It would be interesting to hear what a lawyer has to say about the MM act.
 
So, how many different dealers did you visit to address this problem?

Anyone not see the relationship between the short shifter, the ability to shift faster, with the possible bent fork or synchro issue?
Also, during an accidental mis-shift, is it easier to crunch and catch that gear with less hp? or more hp? whats the shift fork doing when you are trying to engage that gear without clutch release? It isn't sitting back watching the gears grind away!

Complaint at 2k, fluid change at 8k, revisit at 28K? So what happened during the middle 20k?
a chance? Next time use the lemon law. You, giving it a chance, isn't a viable argument especially since you went 20k miles.

BS comes in two forms-- one is from the owner, and the other from the dealer/mfg.

Reread Ed's reply.

When rebuilding the tranny, use aftermarket upgrades or get a salvage yard 6-speed swap.
 
quote:

Originally posted by friendly_jacek:
I thought that people modding their cars accept the fact that major modds void warranty.
I guess I was wrong.


Did you even read the original post? Do you have any idea how a transmission works? If your brake rotors are warped and you put new pads on and they're still warped, is it the fault of the aftermarket pads?

quote:

Originally posted by unDummy:
BS comes in two forms-- one is from the owner, and the other from the dealer/mfg.

It is tough to say what is actually true without being there, so I'm certainly not going to disagree with unDummy's post. But if what scoobdude has written is true and the car wasn't abused then this is Subaru's problem and it should have been fixed immediately. Since I'm not there, I'm not personally holding anything against Subaru.
 
quote:

However I was told this time that the claim has been denied because of an aftermarket exhaust and short throw shifter.

The aftermarket exhaust could have pipes close to the transmission such that the transmission and its fluid could have become overheated.

One thing that isn't clear to me is when was the short-shifter installed; before or after the 1 st gear grind problem appeared?
 
quote:

Originally posted by MolaKule:
The aftermarket exhaust could have pipes close to the transmission such that the transmission and its fluid could have become overheated.

When was the exhaust changed?

Whilst I agree with Mola I have also found that some aftermarket sports exhaust are actually better in removing the heat as they flow better. My standard exhaust on my 200sx is so restrictive with sharp bends that the heat can be felt through into the boot. There doesn't seem to be a problem with aftermarket exhausts.
 
A couple of things:

Please read the MM act before you quote it in a letter to Subaru. It has NOTHING to do with aftermarket performance parts. The MM act covers aftermarket REPLACEMENT parts(brake pads, clutches, shocks, etc.) that are used in lieu of OEM parts. The fact you mentioned a shortshifter(increased leverage on shift forks, faster engagement of syncros than OEM design) might have just sunk your ship. The MM act won't help you in this instance.
 
I'd kiss the moola goodbuy.

1. MM act is for aftermaket replacement parts etc.

2. EVERYONE knows if you mess w/ it while its under warranty you are taking a risk.

3. Why on earth would you leave this stuff on the car while taking it in for service under warranty? I always pull my chip, intake etc for warranty service.

4. Even if you had a leg to stand on, the letter is too long. You need to be quick and to the point and suggest the action that would satisfy you.

Here are some good example letters:

http://clarkhoward.com/topics/complaint_letter.html

http://www.consumerpro.com/rs132sl.html

Let us know how it works out....

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Sequence of events

1. (DEC)bought car
2. (DEC)1st gear grind (finally coplained at 2K miles thinking it might be and the AWD not getting along yet)
3. (FEB)Fluid changed
4. (JUL)exhaust changed
5. (AUG 2 weeks before taking it to the dealer)Short shifter, steering rack bushings, Intercooler hoses installed
6. (sep 2) took to dealer, claim denied for tranny
7. (sep 10) took to dealer, seat fixed, meeting with District Service Rep

that should answer any questions about the time line. However the one question about what i was doing in the mean time (between 8K and 27K) was working my but off and with no for sure rental i was not going to put myself in that type of situation.

On to the story of the District service rep. I met with Tim Powers on Friday Sep 10th. I will try to keep this unoppinionated. When we first walked out to the car they commented about the spare being on there. It was stated that the spare was a 16" and i have 18" rims. I explained the tire size is what matters and there is not more than .4" from the stock tires so there was nothing to worry about. The .4" difference was stated by the DSR (District Service Rep). I then explained how the recomendation was put into place for the "rear clunking while turning" issue. this is caused by differnt sized tires on the rear which will accelerate the wear of the viscious coupling of the rear. I also explained how the front differential is open and since there is one same size tire on there the power would travel to the path of least resistance and nothing would happen to the CENTER differential. Plus the flat had happened on the way there and there was not enough distance to overheat anything either way.

We proceed to discuss the transmission. I asked for an explanation of how the part failure could have been caused by the extra power. No explenation could be provided except " due to the extra power you may have been driving more aggresivly". I informed Mr. Powers this was not the time nor the place to make assumptions. I then proceeded to ask how much HP the exhaust was quoted to have made on this car. "30 -40" is what he said. i explained the letter (which is the 4th post in this thread) and how its only about 10-15 (217lbs X 6.5%= 231Lbs). Mute point but still. I explained i had the reciept for it which proves it was not put on before the problem occured. I was then asked "who installed it". i explained it was me. "oh becasue if you had a reciept showing when it installed maybe we could see if it was done before the problem"
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Agian i asked about the transmision, this time explaining how a Synchro (which is only used in between shifts when there is no power) would fail due to a faster accelerating car. again no explanation was given. I then explained how a synchronizer would fail. which is caused by holding pressure up againt the shift gate when not in gear, low fluid, and/or resting your hand on the sifter (which will also cause the collar to wear which is what causes the gear to pop out which is not my case). No comment was made.

I then asked the basic question "are you going to fix this or not". The answer was no. I asked "even though this was a pre-existing problem".answer was still NO. I then asked for it in writing. Answer was still NO(for legal reasons supposedly).

I then thanked him for his time and informed him i would be pursing this though other avenues and shook his hand.

I then went and got my tire fixed, had lunch, stopped by work for a few, and then went to the other dealership. this is where it gets interesting. Mr. Powers was at that dealership "researching" my account.

Now for my oppinion. i hope he can't sleep at night. I hope he knows he is doing wrong and tries to work with me to fix my problem.

thanks for listening

Joe

And for those of you who still have any doubts i can gurantee you i will admit to anything that is my fault. I am only asking SUBARU to do the same.

[ September 13, 2004, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: scoobdude ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by Not the Autorx Frank:
I'd kiss the moola goodbuy.

1. MM act is for aftermaket replacement parts etc.


This was explained to the service rep in detail by stating "if my A/C went bad would you not fix it becasue i had aftermarket tires?" "After all.. they are part of the DRIVETRAIN since they both connect to the same motor" If they were allowed to deny my warranty for that what good would the act be.?

2. EVERYONE knows if you mess w/ it while its under warranty you are taking a risk.

It shouldn't have to be this way.

3. Why on earth would you leave this stuff on the car while taking it in for service under warranty? I always pull my chip, intake etc for warranty service.

Agiain... i shouldn't have to.

4. Even if you had a leg to stand on, the letter is too long. You need to be quick and to the point and suggest the action that would satisfy you.

I appreciate your feedback and thank you for the links.

Here are some good example letters:

http://clarkhoward.com/topics/complaint_letter.html

http://www.consumerpro.com/rs132sl.html

Let us know how it works out....

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[/QB]

And sorry if you take this the wrong way. just wanted to clarify myself in case you did not understand any of posts.
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quote:

Originally posted by Tyrolkid:
A couple of things:

Please read the MM act before you quote it in a letter to Subaru. It has NOTHING to do with aftermarket performance parts. The MM act covers aftermarket REPLACEMENT parts(brake pads, clutches, shocks, etc.) that are used in lieu of OEM parts. The fact you mentioned a shortshifter(increased leverage on shift forks, faster engagement of syncros than OEM design) might have just sunk your ship. The MM act won't help you in this instance.


might want to read these.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/warranty.htm

http://www.ravelco.net/magnusonmossact.htm

http://www.north-american-lubricants.com/articles/magnuson_moss_act.htm

http://www.granatellimotorsports.com/magnusonmoss.htm

You will see they can not ever void your warranty and it states that the failed part in question must proven to have failed due to the aftermarket part being blamed.
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quote:

Originally posted by Tyrolkid:
A couple of things:

...The fact you mentioned a shortshifter(increased leverage on shift forks, faster engagement of syncros than OEM design) might have just sunk your ship...


Absolutely! The further fact that a higher flow exhaust system was installed bolsters Subaru's likely held assumption, mistaken or not, that the owner thrashes his car beyond reasonable expectations. I hope scoobdude didn't lease...
 
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