I got my pair of Filter Magnets installed today.

[Hatsuwr]

One thing for sure, they will need to be very strong magnets, as the field on the inside will be quite weak, and weaker when hot.

There is a configuration called a Halbach array that focuses the magnetic field on just one side of a set of magnets - I'm fairly sure the FilterMags use this.

I wrote a bit about the topic here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/regarding-magnets-on-oil-filters.388954/

I designed a fully parametric retainer model that should adapt to any right rectangular prism magnet size and oil filter diameter. Got a little sidetracked with other projects, but it's ready to print and test whenever I have a bit of free time.

 

[Hatsuwr]

He needs to do a full OCI of at least 5K miles on a gas engine with and without a filter magnet. Not just drive 500 miles and then put a filter magnet on for 20 miles. That would be a useless flawed test.

That channel hurts to watch... He puts so much time and effort into his tests, but there seems to always be serious (and easily avoided) issues that make it really hard to draw useful conclusions from them. I really appreciate his dedication, but so much could be improved just by asking for input on the methodology beforehand.

 

[Carlostrece]

There is a configuration called a Halbach array that focuses the magnetic field on just one side of a set of magnets - I'm fairly sure the FilterMags use this.

They do focus the magnetic field in one direction (into the oil filter).

 

[CarlB]

Answered in post 110.

Norias life extension tables show life extension per code drop.
881825 also discusses micron reduction as it relates to wear reduction.

How you wish to achieve the drop or drops is up to you.
Also up to you is what is or isn't meaningful in terms of extension.

Where's the evidence that the magnet causes reduction? (Beyond what a filter would catch)

 

[Pablo]

There is a configuration called a Halbach array that focuses the magnetic field on just one side of a set of magnets - I'm fairly sure the FilterMags use this.

I wrote a bit about the topic here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/regarding-magnets-on-oil-filters.388954/

I designed a fully parametric retainer model that should adapt to any right rectangular prism magnet size and oil filter diameter. Got a little sidetracked with other projects, but it's ready to print and test whenever I have a bit of free time.

Thanks! Great thread.

 

[Pablo]

Where's the evidence that the magnet causes reduction? (Beyond what a filter would catch)

You mean wear reduction?

It’s inferred from my reading. A magnet can catch particles under 20 microns. Most filters can’t.

Now how much wear these smaller particles cause in any given engine varies but there is some. Enough to worry about or statistically reduce engine life? Unknown

 

[CarlB]

You mean wear reduction?

It’s inferred from my reading. A magnet can catch particles under 20 microns. Most filters can’t.

Now how much wear these smaller particles cause in any given engine varies but there is some. Enough to worry about or statistically reduce engine life? Unknown

I wasn't looking for evidence of the correlation between wear and oil contamination (lots of that exists). I was looking for evidence of the filter magnet reducing contamination beyond an oil filter alone.

Like you said, the engine life impact is a different issue, plus involves lots of other variables.

 

[Pablo]

I wasn't looking for evidence of the correlation between wear and oil contamination (lots of that exists). I was looking for evidence of the filter magnet reducing contamination beyond an oil filter alone.

Like you said, the engine life impact is a different issue, plus involves lots of other variables.

Again inferred. But some kind of controlled designed experiment would be great.

1) We know magnets CAN catch 3u-20u Fe particles
2) We know most filters WON'T catch most particles under 20um
3) So the inference is they are catch-able.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Again inferred. But some kind of controlled designed experiment would be great.

1) We know magnets CAN catch 3u-20u Fe particles
2) We know most filters WON'T catch most particles under 20um
3) So the inference is they are catch-able.

Item 2) expansion. All filters will catch some level of particles below 20u, but how much depends on the filter's efficiency, and that's why a more efficient oil filter can matter in the first place. A filter with an ISO 4548-12 rating of 99% @ 20u is going to catch way more particles below 20u than one with much less efficiency. Just look at the Ascent ISO test graphs of efficiency vs particle size for those 3 most efficient filters tested. If a filter can catch 80% of 5u particles, then maybe someone could justify that adding a magnet isn't getting much added ferrous particulate out of the oil. It still would, but theoretically not as much compared to if the filter was much less efficient.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I wasn't looking for evidence of the correlation between wear and oil contamination (lots of that exists). I was looking for evidence of the filter magnet reducing contamination beyond an oil filter alone.

Like you said, the engine life impact is a different issue, plus involves lots of other variables.

Keeping as much debris out of the oil (without going wild in cost) that can cause wear is one of those variables, and a magnet obviously catches ferrous particulate that the oil filter can't, much of it below 20u which can cause added engine wear. Yeah, yeah ... "is it enough to make any difference?" is always going to be the response. That's up to whoever owns the machine to decide.

Your avatar looks like you have motorcycles. If so, do you use a magnetic drain plug in them? You think a magnetic drain plug in a motorcycle with a shared sump would made a difference? Most motorcycles have a magnetic drain plug from the factory, and they also have an oil filter, so why did those engineers also want a magnetic drain plug.

 

[Carlostrece]

Again inferred. But some kind of controlled designed experiment would be great.

1) We know magnets CAN catch 3u-20u Fe particles
2) We know most filters WON'T catch most particles under 20um
3) So the inference is they are catch-able.

I'd bet money there have been extensive government and industry tests on this. I haven't tried to find them because I'm not that curious or motivated, but they likely exist. IIRC someone early in the thread posted some info from industry.

 

[CarlB]

Keeping as much debris out of the oil (without going wild in cost) that can cause wear is one of those variables, and a magnet obviously catches ferrous particulate that the oil filter can't, much of it below 20u which can cause added engine wear. Yeah, yeah ... "is it enough to make any difference?" is always going to be the response. That's up to whoever owns the machine to decide.

Your avatar looks like you have motorcycles. If so, do you use a magnetic drain plug in them? You think a magnetic drain plug in a motorcycle with a shared sump would made a difference? Most motorcycles have a magnetic drain plug from the factory, and they also have an oil filter, so why did those engineers also want a magnetic drain plug.

No motorcycles.

I've already mentioned the pros of a drain plug on this thread.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I've already mentioned the pros of a drain plug on this thread.

In which post? So if you think a magnet drain plug has pros, then why would you think magnets on the oil filter wouldn't?

 

[CarlB]

In which post? So if you think a magnet drain plug has pros, then why would you think magnets on the oil filter wouldn't?

Without evidence, it would have the same pro. Which I already mentioned in this thread.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Without evidence, it would have the same pro. Which I already mentioned in this thread.

Just like anything in the world, if you don't think it has any benefits, or even has negatives for whatever reason(s), then don't use it or find something else that achieves some wanted goal. Most people don't always need some smoking gun proof to decide to use or do something. In the case of magnets taking particles out of the oil that an oil filter can't, people can see evidence that a magnet does that with their eyes. That's enough for a lot of people. If people want to know exactly "how much of a difference" does it really make, then guess they need to do some deeper looking (and more self research) for a better answer or just decide it's not for them.

 

[Carlostrece]

I wasn't looking for evidence of the correlation between wear and oil contamination (lots of that exists). I was looking for evidence of the filter magnet reducing contamination beyond an oil filter alone.

Like you said, the engine life impact is a different issue, plus involves lots of other variables.

@Pablo answered this well in posts 126, 128, @ZeeOSix in 130, and prior posts. Others also answered it in prior posts before that. It's already been answered a dozen times. This is not complicated.

CarlB, you refuse to listen or acknowledge what they said. I don't know if you really don't understand what they said, or if (more likely) being argumentative is your game. I think you like seeing how much you can put these guys through.

I'll restate the obvious again. Even if you won't listen or see the obvious, this might be a helpful summation to someone else.

Others said motor oil filters don't catch all ferrous particles below 20 microns. I think that's being overly optimistic about filters. The best oil filters that I have access to (NAPA Gold & Microgard Select) are rated 23-25 microns @ 99%.

Strong, focused (in one direction), high heat tolerant, neodynium magnets (such as Filtermag) can catch all ferrous particles 2 microns and larger. So Filtermag is capturing 2-22 micron ferrous particles that my oil filter doesn't catch.

That ^ is a fact, not an opinion. That fact is the answer to your question of "Do magnets catch metal particles that the oil filter can't?" Yes, obviously. In my case, Filtermag catches the 2-22 micron ferrous particles that my oil filter doesn't catch. That answers your question for the umpteenth time.

I think removing 2-22 micron ferrous particles is a good thing that probably reduces engine wear. That's my opinion. It might also be a fact if there's evidence that proves it reduces engine wear. I'm not sure if reducing engine wear is a proven fact, or just an opinion.

You can credibly question if magnets reduce engine wear enough to justify the cost of the magnets. I think magnets reduce wear to some extent, but I haven't seen conclusive evidence of how much. I think my pair/set of Filtermag was money well spent, but that's just my opinion.

What you cannot credibly question is if magnets reduce ferrous particles that the oil filter could not catch on it's own. Filtermag catches all ferrous particles 2 microns and larger. My filter does not catch all particles smaller than 23. You don't have to be a genius to see that means the magnet is catching the 2-22 micron particles that my filter doesn't catch.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I think removing 2-22 micron ferrous particles is a good thing that probably reduces engine wear. That's my opinion. It might also be a fact if there's evidence that proves it reduces engine wear. I'm not sure if reducing engine wear is a proven fact, or just an opinion.

As already mentioned, engine wear studies show that most engine wear is due to particles below 20u. To help reduce engine wear, it's not rocket science to try and remove as much debris out of the oil as practically possible. The words "as practically possible" means something different to everyone, just like many words do. For some people, buying a good $20-25 magnetic drain plug (like a Gold Plug) might exceed the definition of "as practically possible". For most, I doubt it. Of course, then comes the mantra: "How clean is enough?". Again, that depends on the person's own definition (and some feelings) of what's "enough".

 

[Carlostrece]

As already mentioned, engine wear studies show that most engine wear is due to particles below 20u.

That ^ proves that magnets reduce engine wear because we know they reduce small ferrous particles that the filter cannot remove. Were any of those engine wear studies you mention quoted or linked to earlier in this thread? Someone is bound to ask. I no longer recall all the things posted earlier in thread and I'm too lazy to go look.

To help reduce engine wear, it's not rocket science to try and remove as much debris out of the oil as practically possible.

True.

 

[Pablo]

That ^ proves that magnets reduce engine wear because we know they reduce small ferrous particles that the filter cannot remove. Were any of those engine wear studies you mention quoted or linked to earlier in this thread? Someone is bound to ask. I no longer recall all the things posted earlier in thread and I'm too lazy to go look.

True.

Well it does infer but doesn’t prove it

 

[rstcso]

I wonder if filter magnets on this Pentius filter with the center tube holes not punched out completely will keep "holes" that might become dislodged inside the filter. How powerful are these magnets?