I am torn.

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Why all the fear-mongering about 5w40 oil?

Guess what millions of engines that are now spec'd for 5w20 have run 5w30 for years...and they did not magically seize up the first time 5w30 was poured into the crankcase.
smirk2.gif


Engines spec'd for 5w20 are commonly run on 5w40 or 10w40 in Europe and Australia. Guess what, they have not magically seized up either!

How about you give the fear-mongering a rest![/quote]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamen!
 
Originally Posted By: RISUPERCREWMAN
The Modern Ford Modular Engine needs rapid oil flow to the TOP of the Engine FAST upon a COLD start! Go ahead, run your 5w-40 Diesel oil, & see what happends......(LOL)....You do not know more that the FORD ENGINEERS who designed the Mod Motor!!!


Do you know more than Ford engineers?

After all, Ford engineers spec:
5W-50 for the Modular Ford GT 5.4 4V
5W-50 for the Modular Shelby GT500 5.4 4V
15W-50 for the Modular 2000 Cobra R 5.4 4V
10W-30 for the Modular Barra 230 5.4 3V in Australia
15W-40 for the Modular Boss 290 5.4 4V in Australia

43.gif
 
Originally Posted By: RISUPERCREWMAN
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: RISUPERCREWMAN
Why anybody would want to put in 5w-40 in a modern Ford Modular V-8 engine in beyond belief! Do what the manual calls for 5w-20, & stop stressing about it! My 07 5.4 3v has been weined on Mobil-1 5w-20 since it's 1st oil change, & runs super smooth at 36,000 miles!......


Why?

The engine was originally spec'd for 5w30. The TDT is a better oil. Yes, it is heavier, but the truck doesn't seem to mind, as fuel mileage has not been affected.

I could run OEM filters as well (just finished an OCI with a similar combo to yours: M1 5w20, Motorcraft filter) but I feel both products I am currently using are BETTER than what is spec'd by Ford.

-The filter in terms of filter media
-The oil in terms of overall protection

This site is all about the experimentation and obsession with oil. If we all just followed what was in the manual and on the fill cap, we'd have nothing to talk about.

The Modern Ford Modular Engine needs rapid oil flow to the TOP of the Engine FAST upon a COLD start! Go ahead, run your 5w-40 Diesel oil, & see what happends......(LOL)....You do not know more that the FORD ENGINEERS who designed the Mod Motor!!!


Rapid flow at cold start? um. hence the "5w"40.....

Also, people need to realize that the little note inside the manual does not always state what is Best for the engine. But what is most easily obtainable and perhaps with a big ford engine the manufacture wants people to put in a thinner oil for a slight increase in mpg. Especially with the way gas prices have been lately. As someone else post, it used to call for 5w30.


For instance I have a 2003 land rover discovery. The engine block has been nearly the same for decades for this model. It is a flat tappet motor (1960s buick small block desgin, has not changed much in a long while) and the 1990s manuals used to state to use a 10w40. With the 2004 discovery it states a 5w30. These SUVs get terrible gas mileage. Do you really think a 5w30 is best for a flat tappet 4.6L motor? heck no!
 
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Originally Posted By: RISUPERCREWMAN

The Modern Ford Modular Engine needs rapid oil flow to the TOP of the Engine FAST upon a COLD start!


Which is why it has a very high volume and high pressure oil pump.

Quote:
Go ahead, run your 5w-40 Diesel oil, & see what happends......(LOL)....You do not know more that the FORD ENGINEERS who designed the Mod Motor!!!


But you seem to think you do.

As Ben already covered, Ford spec's a variety of 50 and 40-weight oils for this engine family in various parts of the world.

This includes a number of higher performance North American applications where greater PROTECTION (my goal here) is required due to the high-performance use of the vehicle in question, such as the Cobra R, Ford GT, GT500...etc.

The Aussie Falcon, which is the same Modular engine family we have here, specs a 40-weight oil.

Mercedes Benz, BMW, Porsche....etc ALL spec 40-weight oils for their OVERHEAD CAM (just like the Modulars) engines due to the extended drain intervals and sustained high-speed driving in Europe.

Now, lets put this into perspective a bit.

The Modular engine family was originally spec'd for 5w30 in car and truck applications.

SO, lets compare a standard 5w30, which has been proven to take these engines hundreds of thousands of miles without issue to the oil I am currently using:

1. Pennzoil Conventional 5w30
SAE Viscosity Grade SAE J300: 5w30
API Service Category: SM
ILSAC GF-4
Gravity, °API ASTM D-287: 31.4
Specific Gravity @ 15.6°C(60°F) ASTM D-287: 0.863
Flash Point, °C ASTM D-93: 216
Pour Point, °C ASTM D-97: -39
Color ASTM D-1500: 3.0
Viscosity
@ 40°C, cSt ASTM D-445: 63.9
@ 100°C, cSt ASTM D-445: 10.5
Viscosity Index ASTM D-2270: 158
CCS Viscosity, cP (°C) ASTM D-5293: 5,800 (-30)
MRV Viscosity, cP (°C) ASTM D-4684: 15,900 (-35)
HT/HS Viscosity, cP ASTM D-4683: 3.0
Noack volatility, % ASTM D-5800: 14.5

2. Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40:
Typical Properties
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40
SAE Grade 5W-40
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40ºC 102
cSt @ 100ºC 14.8
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270: 151
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874: 1.35
Total Base #, mg KOH/g, ASTM D 2896: 12
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97: -45
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92: 226
Density @ 15ºC kg/l, ASTM D 4052: 0.854

Now, look at the bold above. Which oil is thinner at 15 degrees?

So, on a 15 degree day, which oil is going to reach that "critical top-end" first?

Exxon-Mobil's own Esso Extra 5w30 is .859......

Oh, and another little tibit:

TDT 5w40:
MRV @ -35C: 25400

Castrol GTX 5w30:
MRV @ -35C: 40000


Yes, it is almost half as viscous at -35 than conventional 5w30. So which oil is "better" again?
 
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I know! I know!
wink.gif



On a side note:
Sorry for butting in. I'm new to this particular forum and LOVE oil.

continue on!
 
Originally Posted By: peterdes
Originally Posted By: RISUPERCREWMAN
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: RISUPERCREWMAN
Why anybody would want to put in 5w-40 in a modern Ford Modular V-8 engine in beyond belief! Do what the manual calls for 5w-20, & stop stressing about it! My 07 5.4 3v has been weined on Mobil-1 5w-20 since it's 1st oil change, & runs super smooth at 36,000 miles!......


Why?

The engine was originally spec'd for 5w30. The TDT is a better oil. Yes, it is heavier, but the truck doesn't seem to mind, as fuel mileage has not been affected.

I could run OEM filters as well (just finished an OCI with a similar combo to yours: M1 5w20, Motorcraft filter) but I feel both products I am currently using are BETTER than what is spec'd by Ford.

-The filter in terms of filter media
-The oil in terms of overall protection

This site is all about the experimentation and obsession with oil. If we all just followed what was in the manual and on the fill cap, we'd have nothing to talk about.

The Modern Ford Modular Engine needs rapid oil flow to the TOP of the Engine FAST upon a COLD start! Go ahead, run your 5w-40 Diesel oil, & see what happends......(LOL)....You do not know more that the FORD ENGINEERS who designed the Mod Motor!!!


Rapid flow at cold start? um. hence the "5w"40.....

Also, people need to realize that the little note inside the manual does not always state what is Best for the engine. But what is most easily obtainable and perhaps with a big ford engine the manufacture wants people to put in a thinner oil for a slight increase in mpg. Especially with the way gas prices have been lately. As someone else post, it used to call for 5w30.


For instance I have a 2003 land rover discovery. The engine block has been nearly the same for decades for this model. It is a flat tappet motor (1960s buick small block desgin, has not changed much in a long while) and the 1990s manuals used to state to use a 10w40. With the 2004 discovery it states a 5w30. These SUVs get terrible gas mileage. Do you really think a 5w30 is best for a flat tappet 4.6L motor? heck no!


Not all 5W's are equal. For example, Shell Rotella T synthetic 5W-40 is 95cSt at 40C, while Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 is 45.73cSt. That's a big difference.

Low temperature cranking viscosity of the RTS 5W-40 is 28,000 and the Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 is 11,600.

HUGE difference.
 
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Oh, and the M1 TDT is even thicker than the RTS. It's 100.4cSt at 40C.

it does do a bit better than the RTS for pumpability at 25,400.


Yup, it is thicker as things warm up for sure. 14.8 at 100C.

BUT, it is definitely thinner where it counts: cold starts. Even thinner than conventional 5w30, which is where the argument being put forth by the gentleman above seems to reside, and subsequently falls apart.

These engines were originally spec'd for 5w30. They obviously do not spec a synthetic oil (like the PP you've mentioned above) and nobody takes issue with running 5w30 in them. Yet, in the areas where it counts, the synthetic 5w40 is actually MORE pumpable and thus able to reach the top-end SOONER than a conventional 5w30, yet it is being claimed that I am going to kill my engine because it won't?!

Oh, and talking about low-temp viscosity, Castrol GTX 5w20 is 60,000 at -35c! While Pennzoil conventional is markedly better at 12,400. So the TDT, in some cases, is even better than a 5w20 at cold temperatures!
 
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I recently did the yearly change on my F250 mentioned earlier in the thread. Again I went with RTS 5w40, and a Donaldson. For MY use, this combo is bulletproof. Fine, quiet starts all winter long, fuel mileage is the same... 17 hwy, 11 when towing the TT. Quiet, no consumption. I'm confident the protection is good when towing in hot weather. What's not to like? We drove 4k last year going camping. 4k isn't much on RTS, or a Donaldson, but I'm working through RTS I found a while back at AA at 75% off, and the filter was 11.00 . I don't mind 20.00 a year for an oil change in this vehicle.
 
Originally Posted By: beanoil
I recently did the yearly change on my F250 mentioned earlier in the thread. Again I went with RTS 5w40, and a Donaldson. For MY use, this combo is bulletproof. Fine, quiet starts all winter long, fuel mileage is the same... 17 hwy, 11 when towing the TT. Quiet, no consumption. I'm confident the protection is good when towing in hot weather. What's not to like? We drove 4k last year going camping. 4k isn't much on RTS, or a Donaldson, but I'm working through RTS I found a while back at AA at 75% off, and the filter was 11.00 . I don't mind 20.00 a year for an oil change in this vehicle.


Sounds like a great combination!!!
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Truck seems quite happy with it anyways, almost feels like it has more power, but that is probably my imagination.


I noticed the same thing with the straight 30 in the TL. I know it's impossible because it takes at least 10hp on a sensitive butt dyno to feel the difference but I was expecting to feel a loss and instead I *thought* I felt an increase.
 
chevrofreak you couldn't be more wrong. Americans suffere from viscosity phobia which I have mentioned many times. If I put 30W or 40W in two unmarked bottles, I'd bet nobody could tell the difference pouring them.
 
Originally Posted By: sprintman
chevrofreak you couldn't be more wrong. Americans suffere from viscosity phobia which I have mentioned many times. If I put 30W or 40W in two unmarked bottles, I'd bet nobody could tell the difference pouring them.


How is it that WE are the ones suffering from viscosity phobia? You're the ones that are using entirely too thick of an oil because you're afraid of the thinner stuff!
 
Nope wrong again. You made a ridiculous statement that 25W70 is grease when of course it's nothing like it. I have 5W30 in our Outback. Americans, in general, think going from one one grade to another makes massive differences in percieved thickness when of course it doesn't. I think I'll run 40W70 in the Mazda next summer, if 25W70 is greae what is 40W70?
 
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Originally Posted By: sprintman
chevrofreak you couldn't be more wrong. Americans suffere from viscosity phobia which I have mentioned many times. If I put 30W or 40W in two unmarked bottles, I'd bet nobody could tell the difference pouring them.


How is it that WE are the ones suffering from viscosity phobia? You're the ones that are using entirely too thick of an oil because you're afraid of the thinner stuff!


How do you know they use too thick of an oil? That sounds more like an opinion than a fact. Even that "grease" he uses is probably as thin as a 5w-20 in a northern climate. And even if it wasn't, that still doesnt' mean it's too thick.

I hear it repeated so many times to just use what the manufacturer recommends, well they recommend a thicker oil over there.

I'll be over there in November, maybe I'll ship some of that 40w-70 over here for use in the GN.
 
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