Hybrid owners not re-buying

[Hermann]

Originally Posted By: Doog
I wouldn't buy a Hybrid because I don't think the technology is really that advanced yet. Plus, in most places you have a coal fired power plant on the other end of the plug.


But you have to start somewhere.
The automobile is a 120 year experiment still in progress.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
So while technically not "the same", the idea of varying valve timing to control how much of something is introduced into the cylinder (to borrow your term again) is common between the two. It is what is being introduced and for what purpose that varies here.


I look forward to slide valves and control linkages then.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
So while technically not "the same", the idea of varying valve timing to control how much of something is introduced into the cylinder (to borrow your term again) is common between the two. It is what is being introduced and for what purpose that varies here.


I look forward to slide valves and control linkages then.


And here I thought the next big thing was solenoid-actuated valves with no camshaft of any sort

 

[OVERKILL]

Just for you Shannow

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

But just like KrisZ above I want to see these cars with 100k or more miles on them. Not just one or two anecdotal references, but a lot so we all can see how 'great' they are.


You must be kidding, right? Taxi owners racked like 300,000 miles on them, mostly trouble free. Prius taxis are extremely common in Canada and becoming common in Europe. Prius is #1 selling car in Japan. I wonder why? Is this just the tree hugging crowd?


Cab drivers do seem to like the Prius so far. Many of these guys have to buy their own vehicles. They wouldn't buy Prii if they were unreliable. There's actually a cab driver who lives around the corner from me and his work car is a newer Prius.

My dad's Civic Hybrid isn't unreliable specifically because of being a hybrid. The gas engine and electric motor have always functioned perfectly. The CVT transmission is just a known POS and the battery pack didn't last very long. Luckily Honda covered it all, and the dealer seemed to acknowledge the great engineering shame with leather equipped V6 Accord loaner cars.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy

My friend has a Prius and his around town mileage is about what a VW TDI gets, within a couple. High 30's, into the low 40's.

Oh and what they don't tell you is that to get that Lithium battery in the car is an extremely environmentally damaging process. Your better off burning gas or diesel. The extra 10-15 mpg's comes at a very high cost.


First, you friend doesn't know how to drive. I drive my prius almost only in city and get 50-60 MPG (depending on ambient temps).

Second, regular Prius uses NiMH and not lithium.

Like I said before, your posts bring little to the discussion.

If lithium is so damaging, then I take you use no cell phone or laptop, right?


That's fantastic, and I really don't care. Oh my bad, I was so interested in Prius that I got excited and forgot that they use nickle based batteries.

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=5921548

I think I add plenty, I'm just not allowed to say anything negative about the sacred cow.

Now than lets get back to talking about some proper cars.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

But just like KrisZ above I want to see these cars with 100k or more miles on them. Not just one or two anecdotal references, but a lot so we all can see how 'great' they are.


You must be kidding, right? Taxi owners racked like 300,000 miles on them, mostly trouble free. Prius taxis are extremely common in Canada and becoming common in Europe. Prius is #1 selling car in Japan. I wonder why? Is this just the tree hugging crowd?


Cab drivers do seem to like the Prius so far. Many of these guys have to buy their own vehicles. They wouldn't buy Prii if they were unreliable. There's actually a cab driver who lives around the corner from me and his work car is a newer Prius.

My dad's Civic Hybrid isn't unreliable specifically because of being a hybrid. The gas engine and electric motor have always functioned perfectly. The CVT transmission is just a known POS and the battery pack didn't last very long. Luckily Honda covered it all, and the dealer seemed to acknowledge the great engineering shame with leather equipped V6 Accord loaner cars.


Some places REQUIRE hybrid taxis...many that don't have incentives to buy them. (That's why so many Boston taxis are hybrid Camrys.)

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy

My friend has a Prius and his around town mileage is about what a VW TDI gets, within a couple. High 30's, into the low 40's.

Oh and what they don't tell you is that to get that Lithium battery in the car is an extremely environmentally damaging process. Your better off burning gas or diesel. The extra 10-15 mpg's comes at a very high cost.


First, you friend doesn't know how to drive. I drive my prius almost only in city and get 50-60 MPG (depending on ambient temps).

Second, regular Prius uses NiMH and not lithium.

Like I said before, your posts bring little to the discussion.

If lithium is so damaging, then I take you use no cell phone or laptop, right?


That's fantastic, and I really don't care. Oh my bad, I was so interested in Prius that I got excited and forgot that they use nickle based batteries.

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=5921548

I think I add plenty, I'm just not allowed to say anything negative about the sacred cow.

Now than lets get back to talking about some proper cars.



This video brings up a point I made earlier at the very end of it:



Quote:

Host1: VW is bringing out their new Polo Blue Motion and that just happens to emit less CO2 than a Prius, AND, it's a Diesel!

Host2: Yeah there's one problem with the Polo though.

Host1: What?

Host2: It looks too much like a normal car.

Host1: Yeah.

Host2: You know if you buy a Toyota Prius it looks like a Hybrid. So everybody knows that you got your green credentials on display. You are doing good for the environment and the world at large! (thumbs up and sarcasm)

Host1: That is a good point. So I guess the best thing to do is to have a Prius on the drive so the neighbours can see it. But then behind it *I have no idea what he says here, something about another car*

Host2: Now that's my kind of logic!

 

[yonyon]

Two great examples, but how also about comparing maintenance by need rather than by the book? Corolla's are very low-maintenance and the maintenence tends to be inexpensive, but the Prius is amazingly low-maintenance on an as-needed schedule. Oil changes at double the interval of a Corolla, cabin air filter between 12k and 50k miles; tires at 60k to 90k miles; brake pads around 80k to 150k miles; not much else until it gets sold offshore at over 300k.

 

[L_Sludger]

Originally Posted By: Mr_Incredible


My new Prius C weighs the same as my 1989 CRX, is several times more safe, gets better mpgs (53.2 last tank, without hardly trying), and has all the whiz-bang stuff you should expect for $25k.


Not exactly, the Prius C is ~2500lb, isn't it? Very light weight for a modern car, especially light weight for a hybrid, but not 1900-2000lb that the '89 CRX weighed.
..
I'd so love to have a Prius C drivetrain in my Insight.. it weighs 1900lbs, imagine the better fuel economy conferred by losing 600lbs and going to a .25 drag coefficient

 

[JOD]

Overkill, some people buy a Prius because it's some sort of social statement. Guess what: so do a lot of BMW owners. Should I bring that up every time you mention your Bimmers? Seriously, so what? I get that you're annoyed by "that type" of hybrid owner. It doesn't make the car any less relevant, and the fact is hybrids make more and more sense as the technology evolves. All the irrational arguments and obfuscations in the world don't change that fact.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: JOD
Overkill, some people buy a Prius because it's some sort of social statement. Guess what: so do a lot of BMW owners. Should I bring that up every time you mention your Bimmers? Seriously, so what? I get that you're annoyed by "that type" of hybrid owner. It doesn't make the car any less relevant, and the fact is hybrids make more and more sense as the technology evolves. All the irrational arguments and obfuscations in the world don't change that fact.



I'm quite alright with you bringing that up every time I mention BMW's, in fact I encourage it if it makes you feel better inside.......

However

I don't think I ever expressed that I was "annoyed" with that type of Hybrid owner. I think in a past thread I expressed my dislike for a certain Prius owner locally who stickers his car up with huge MPG badges and drives around looking down at people like his feces don't stink, but I certainly don't spread that disdain among Hybrid owners in general; it is most certainly isolated to him.

What I find interesting is how bent out of shape you just got over the fact that I mentioned that Prius ownership is viewed as a Greenie status card in the eyes of many and that an automotive rag that had done a review of the Prius had happened to mention that topic at the end of their broadcast.

I also find it interesting that you are singling me out here, when I haven't really expressed any blatant dislike for Hybrids or the Prius in general in this thread. Yes, I've played a touch of the devil's advocate on a few of the subjects touched upon and attempted to explain certain viewpoints on the stance many have on Hybrid technology but that doesn't make me a Hybrid hater.

If you've got a personal issue with me, we can take this to PM, or hash it out in this thread. Your choice. But I don't think anything I've said up to this point deserves you singling me out to berate me for whatever offence you feel me owning a couple of Bimmers has caused.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: JOD
Overkill, some people buy a Prius because it's some sort of social statement. Guess what: so do a lot of BMW owners. Should I bring that up every time you mention your Bimmers? Seriously, so what? I get that you're annoyed by "that type" of hybrid owner. It doesn't make the car any less relevant, and the fact is hybrids make more and more sense as the technology evolves. All the irrational arguments and obfuscations in the world don't change that fact.



I'm quite alright with you bringing that up every time I mention BMW's, in fact I encourage it if it makes you feel better inside.......

? why would it "make me feel better?". I've really don't engage in the silliness of stereotyping people based on their choice of car. I know there are a ton of posers who drive Bimmers strictly because it's a status symbol, but I imagine those folks don't frequent this forum.

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
However

I don't think I ever expressed that I was "annoyed" with that type of Hybrid owner. I think in a past thread I expressed my dislike for a certain Prius owner locally who stickers his car up with huge MPG badges and drives around looking down at people like his feces don't stink, but I certainly don't spread that disdain among Hybrid owners in general; it is most certainly isolated to him.

Well, him....and the owners to which the guy in the video is referring... Obviously, it stirs some emotion in you, whether it's "annoyance" or something else, I don't know. My general point is "so what?" Some people buy a Prius as a social statement. Some people buy a BMW as a status symbol. I don't really see what relevance it has in a discussion about the car, except to make an attempt to denigrate the owners (in either case). And to be honest, I've just grown weary of the BITOG "war on hybrids". It's pretty obvious that there's some illogical backlash against them, mainly because of the "environmental issue". If it's "green", it must be bad... I mean, there are comments about coal-fired electric plants in a thread about gas-engine hybrids? Really??

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

What I find interesting is how bent out of shape you just got over the fact that I mentioned that Prius ownership is viewed as a Greenie status card in the eyes of many and that an automotive rag that had done a review of the Prius had happened to mention that topic at the end of their broadcast.
I also find it interesting that you are singling me out here, when I haven't really expressed any blatant dislike for Hybrids or the Prius in general in this thread. Yes, I've played a touch of the devil's advocate on a few of the subjects touched upon and attempted to explain certain viewpoints on the stance many have on Hybrid technology but that doesn't make me a Hybrid hater.


I guess I still don't understand the relevance of you continually bringing it up, whether it's the guy with the bumper sticker posting his fuel economy, the guy who was driving his Prius 85mph, the guy who cut you off, or the folks mentioned in the video... So, I guess I'm sensing a bit of a pattern...

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

If you've got a personal issue with me, we can take this to PM, or hash it out in this thread. Your choice. But I don't think anything I've said up to this point deserves you singling me out to berate me for whatever offence you feel me owning a couple of Bimmers has caused.


I have no personal issue with you, I have an issue with unsound logic (which seems to be ever-present in threads about hybrids) and stereotyping people based on their choice of car. If anything, I expect a little better from you since you generally seem like a well-reasoned guy, so if you feel singled out, that's why. Most of the silly comments aren't worth a response. That said, yours is hardly the only post to which I've responded. As far as me "being offended" that you own a couple of Bimmers?? I'm not really sure where you ever got that idea? I'm simply pointing out that you're engaging in the same juvenile behavior of those who stereotype Bimmer owners based on their car. I would like to think there's a higher level of discourse on this forum.

 

[Mr_Incredible]

The CRX came in at a high 21xx pounds, as weighed at the scrap yard I was taking scrap to. That's a bit higher than the 1900-2000 cited. But, I was stretching it a little, too, when I suggested they weigh the same. With all the safety and sound deadening compared to the CRX, plus 15mpg better at every fill up, the C is much more awesomer.

The son's Prius hatch gets 46mpg. Same with the wife's hatch. I got 53.2 on the last fill up. $26k is good for a new car these days.

I'm so used to working on all the cars I have, I'm not sure I'll enjoy a car I don't have to do anything to. Very un BITOG-like. But I'll try to get used to it.

I have no problem with people that don't agree with the Prius, but wonder how much of it is Prius hating with justification thrown in and how much of it is truly a desire to remain simple and proven. Still using rotary phones, anyone?

 

[rjundi]

Folks are buying them, car sales for April 2012, the next car after the perennial best sellers of Accord, Camry, usual trucks. Interesting trucks dying down since a good portion is commercial sales. Also prius are not rental fleet cars enmass like the Malibu and Fusion in that list.

What I find interesting is people complain so much about Honda on this board and gone downhill, yet they sell in large #'s and not at discount/rebates.

 

[mshu7]

I picked up a 15 year old 1998 Civic a couple months ago for $2,500. Has 165k miles on it. Runs & drives great. 3 out of the last 4 fill-ups have shown MPG's of 35, 35, & 37.

Yeah, I think I'll be passing on any sort of hybrid. Plus, I don't buy brand new cars, hybrid or not.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: JOD



Well, him....and the owners to which the guy in the video is referring... Obviously, it stirs some emotion in you,


The emotion might have been amusement? I just thought it was funny that the stereotypes about Prius owners aren't isolated to message boards and are actually openly played upon by auto rags and auto programs as indicated in the video. That's why I posted it.

Quote:
whether it's "annoyance" or something else, I don't know. My general point is "so what?" Some people buy a Prius as a social statement.


OK, but The Critic drives a Prius, and I don't see him getting offended here

Likely because he knows he doesn't fit the stereotype.

Quote:
I don't really see what relevance it has in a discussion about the car,


Because it aptly describes a certain percentage of Prius owners and people feel like bringing it up when the car is being discussed?

Quote:
It's pretty obvious that there's some illogical backlash against them, mainly because of the "environmental issue". If it's "green", it must be bad... I mean, there are comments about coal-fired electric plants in a thread about gas-engine hybrids? Really??


I think the "if it is green it must be bad" argument is simply a counter being played to the act by the uber-greenies who take it too far in the other direction. I'm sure nobody here is out burning tires in their driveway just to spite those that feel that they are single-handedly saving the planet with their Prius. However, I do think a lot of the comments made are done to incite some grumblings among that fold.


Quote:
I guess I still don't understand the relevance of you continually bringing it up, whether it's the guy with the bumper sticker posting his fuel economy, the guy who was driving his Prius 85mph, the guy who cut you off, or the folks mentioned in the video... So, I guess I'm sensing a bit of a pattern...


I think you are confusing me with somebody else. The only guy I posted about that I can recall was the local guy with the stickers and the attitude and that had to be well over a year ago. The guy getting cut off wasn't me, and I certainly have never made remarks about a Prius doing 85Mph. Again, that was somebody else. I posted the video for the reasons I explained earlier.


Quote:
As far as me "being offended" that you own a couple of Bimmers?? I'm not really sure where you ever got that idea? I'm simply pointing out that you're engaging in the same juvenile behavior of those who stereotype Bimmer owners based on their car. I would like to think there's a higher level of discourse on this forum.


That remark was sort of tongue-in-cheek, since ranting about Bimmer owners wouldn't bother me. You have to be able to relate to the stereotype to be bothered by it. And since none of the Prius owners in this thread seem to have been offended by the amusement I found in what was mentioned at the end of the video, I must assume that they don't fit the stereotype

 

[rjundi]

Some folks simply buy Prius as they like the excellent MPG they deliver and the function quite well as a car in my experience with a rental.

It is as good as reason as others who buy a vehicle for a badge ,powerful motor or looks.

People used to dislike SUV drivers now its hybrid owners. The only thing they have to be envious of is way better MPG typically at a price.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: rjundi
Some folks simply buy Prius as they like the excellent MPG they deliver. It is as good as reason as others who buy a vehicle for a badge or powerful motor.


BINGO! And those aren't the guys carrying the stereotype torch

It appears we've had a few of those owners (the people that like the fuel economy) posting in this thread

 

[L_Sludger]

Originally Posted By: Mr_Incredible


I have no problem with people that don't agree with the Prius, but wonder how much of it is Prius hating with justification thrown in and how much of it is truly a desire to remain simple and proven. Still using rotary phones, anyone?


My take is that the same people who bash Toyota at any given moment just latch on to the Prius hate. You know, Cletus in his truck with the "statement" bumper/window stickers, and people of that sort. The Prius could be a free-energy car that never needs to be refueled and Cletus will still make up a reason to denigrate it.