Hurray - nukes get help!! Now for the other shoe?

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

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WASHINGTON, July 30 — A one-sentence provision buried in the Senate’s recently passed energy bill, inserted without debate at the urging of the nuclear power industry, could make builders of new nuclear plants eligible for tens of billions of dollars in government loan guarantees.

Lobbyists have told lawmakers and administration officials in recent weeks that the nuclear industry needs as much as $50 billion in loan guarantees over the next two years to finance a major expansion.


Power companies have tentative plans to put the 28 new reactors at 19 sites around the country. Industry executives insist that banks and Wall Street will not provide the money needed to build new reactors unless the loans are guaranteed in their entirety by the federal government. (my words)- anyone ask the banks

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Okay ..so we're all geared to run pall mall back into nukes. Gotta stabilize our energy sources ..fortify them ...blablabla. Good think, right? ..but..

..and the vultures spin the legislature to bone us to the hilt in the process.

You just want to line up some thieves and execute them for their corrupt games. We're gong to pay in spades for this vitally needed upgrading to our national power production platform.

I've seen this first hand with Limerick. Pre TMI 275M ..post TMI 4B ..all because of "non-conforming" mods where the builder was lending the utility the money to build the plant. I get to pay for South Jersey's (or anyone else that wants it) power from the pool ..they get cheap power off the grid.

Who has predictions for how the other shoe is going to drop??



NY Times - registration required to view

 

[carlprop]

I hope they can manage that many reactors. The one in Sacramento, CA was shut down by the voters about 20 years ago because it was mismanaged. The vote was close as many people thought that their electric bills would go up significantly. It didn't happen, and there were no blackouts when it went offline.

 

[Gary Allan]

I interpret this provision as being taken as an invitation to assure that those guarantees are used. It's also another form of assured profit without true risk of investment. Energy is a slam dunk at some point in the near future ..and there's always been an assured rate of return granted utilities regardless of the costs involved.

I hope that I'm wrong. One would think that loan guarantees would mean a very low rate for the low risk. We'll see how much in concert the lenders and producers are in assuring that there's maximum extraction from the herd on this. This is going to take a substantial amount of capital over a fairly long time before the first electron is pumped into the power pools. I see "FREE LUNCH" signs being posted for all the ancillary detailers involved in the process.

"Come and git it, boyz!! Come and git it!"

 

[Shannow]

Subsidised oil, subsidised nukes...no wonder the alternatives all look so expensive.

Anyone remember what happened in Japan ?

Industry called for self regulation of reactor vessel inspections, and were granted it.

Whistleblower brought to light that since self regulation, companies had been operating 16 reactors with significant cracking. Reactors were closed down.

Some of the reactors with less cracking were called back to manage demand.

Power companies requested, and were given,full indemnification by the Japanese Govt against any failure.

IIRC, the U.S. has indemnification against nuclear catastrophe doesn't it ?

 

[Al]

Without Government support which includes limited liability, Federal permits only (no State/local permits), and financial incentives. Nukes ain't happening.

And since conservation which is the only solution which will work, will never be used (except when we are bankrupt), say hello to government subsidies.

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, Al, that's fine and good ..but why the hoodwinking on the guarantees? Just appropriate the money to to build the things and shut down the fossil fuel plants ..tell the public up front that they're getting boned for stranded assets and do it above board?

This is being "constructed and orchestrated" as a slight of hand con.

 

[oilyriser]

I hope there will be a federal tax on the electricity, to recover the cost of the loan guarantees.

 

[Gary Allan]

Oh ..my friend ..there will assuredly be federal taxes on the electricity that you financed with your taxpayer backed guarantee.

 

[g20ooh]

" Hurray - nukes get help!! Now for the other shoe? "

The 'other shoe' maybe something like a headline (in approx.2018) 'Cold winter in the UK' . then again ,it could be a couple of other 'imagine that' kind of things as well .

Wouldn't be surprised that if built, they have an additive aspect - not just replacement .

 

[Shannow]

Our state Govt decided that the future is in simple cycle gas turbines, rather than a 50% advanced cycle coal.

We are "rehabilitating" 40 year old 30% efficient coal stations to meet current baseload demands.

Burning NG in a simple cycle stationary GT should be a criminal offence.

"Market" and "energy" are completely disfunctional.

 

[oilyriser]

That depends who owns the natural gas supplies...

 

[Merkava_4]

Is there anyway they can build these plants so that in case everyone had to leave the plant for any particular reason, they won't blow up?

 

[oilyriser]

Candu. If they lose coolant, the reaction stops.

 

[g20ooh]

Quote:

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Subsidised oil, subsidised nukes...no wonder the alternatives all look so expensive






"Market" and "energy" are completely disfunctional.

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YEP

Here in the States this and everything else of import can be likened to a simple home repair situation involving two rectangular boards , a screwdriver and a screw .


Obviously , this means we have a screwer and a screwee .

'We' 'argue' alot about which screwer screwdriver combination would be best , but the other end ie the screw and screwee always remains the same .

Pretty sad really, esp. since the mechanical problem being solved here would be better served by an intelligent use of the right kind of glue that would bring more of the two surfaces together in a stronger and more functional way .

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

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.

Wouldn't be surprised that if built, they have an additive aspect - not just replacement .

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Oh, I'm sure that they will. There's surely going to be increased demand with an expanding population of invited and those not invited entering into the #1 consuming nation. You also aren't going to throw away a perfectly good revenue producing fossil fuel plant without being absolutely forced to. ..but when you are ..you should manage to have something functional to take its place.

If a couple of incidents never occurred ..TMI and Chernobyl, we probably would be in a much more "fossil fuel free" environment in power production. It would also be far cheaper.

 

[Shannow]

Quote:

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Here in the States this and everything else of import can be likened to a simple home repair situation involving two rectangular boards , a screwdriver and a screw .


Obviously , this means we have a screwer and a screwee .

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A bit like "if the only tool in your kit is a hammer, then every problems looks like a nail" ?

A LOT of politicians who have only one tool in the kit.

 

[g20ooh]

Shannow - that too .

Gary on your last , thats certainly part of it -I'm 'wondering' if we are going to see a not necc . visible or obvious increase if you will , in reserve capacity and if so , 'why' ?

Key words 'wondering' , 'if so' , and if then applicable, 'why' - in regards to mostly future tense .

To both of you , (and anyone who might know) , - do you remember from I think pre 2004 - post 2001? the bit about a certain group of UK gov. people that came here and spoke to some of their counterparts ......briefly as turned out about very specific possible concerns ....

Note : this was definitely in front of when certain 'issues' and 'movies' came to the fore' - while I can't remember much and may have the dates all wrong - of this I'm certain .

This has been one of those nagging things - something you come across looking over someones shoulder while dealing with something else on a (propriety) information system - that oddly enough shows up years later in some pretty unlikely places later when you go looking for it .

 

[Shannow]

a bit like this ?

http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1006.htm

 

[g20ooh]

Well , thats pretty much it and then some - thank you very much !

It reads a bit different than I remember (Guardian/Observer) but it names the people etc .

I'm trying to fit this in correctly to my 'brief instructions before leaving earth' .

So what do you think ?

 

[Shannow]

What do I think ?

I think that we haven't "recycled" a power station down here since the 80s.

We build new super efficient (well we used to) stations, then work out how to keep the oldies running.

Chuck in some new technology (wind predominantly), then consume it with desalination plants (which wouldn't be necessary if you dried out the coal fired plants).

Then throw in gas fired "peaking" plants because everything else is running flat biscuit.