HPL PCO 0W20 vs Other Brands 0W20 or 0W30

[cammyfive79]

I recall reading some posts where HPL has tested as sheer stable and maintaining the 20wt even after an extended OCI of 15-20K miles. While I'm still wrapping my head around some of the concepts here - wt, HTHS, etc - I'm curious if the HPL 0W20 would compared in performance to say a weighter 0W30 from another brand.

 

[Titan]

If oil is less likely to succumb to shear, the tendency is to thicken over time/mileage. Of course, there is the "newish" problem of fuel diluting the oil in some vehicles. But, trying to determine "performance" relative to a 0W30 is a wide-open target. I think you'll need to get more specific in what you are trying to observe as a difference between them.

 

[kschachn]

Does your engine have a problem with mechanical shear in the oil?

 

[demarpaint]

I'd use caution especially if you're planning to run a long OCI in a DI engine, [Me, I'd use caution with any engine]. Even bumping up a grade or two, if fuel is getting into the oil the it is taking it's toll on the oil. The only way to determine that is to sample the oil and send it out for testing. Your vehicle may or may not be a candidate for an OCI of 15-20K miles. What works for some doesn't always work for others.

 

[kschachn]

I'd use caution especially if you're planning to run a long OCI in a DI engine, [Me, I'd use caution with any engine]. Even bumping up a grade or two, if fuel is getting into the oil the it is taking it's toll on the oil. The only way to determine that is to sample the oil and send it out for testing. Your vehicle may or may not be a candidate for an OCI of 15-20K miles. What works for some doesn't always work for others.

Yes and it’s nothing to do with mechanical shear.

So much angst over shear when it’s rarely the issue.

 

[4WD]

If oil is less likely to succumb to shear, the tendency is to thicken over time/mileage. Of course, there is the "newish" problem of fuel diluting the oil in some vehicles. But, trying to determine "performance" relative to a 0W30 is a wide-open target. I think you'll need to get more specific in what you are trying to observe as a difference between them.

Amsoil claims a slower oxidation thickening rate - whereas plots I have seen on other synthetics turn the corner hard …
Have seen Castrol Magnetec with oxidation so bad it was a charcoal corn dog on the dipstick … This did not require blackstone to see it was toast - it appeared to be thixotropic - so relative viscosity would seem to be false under critical HTHS conditions …

 

[dkryan]

Amsoil claims a slower oxidation thickening rate - whereas plots I have seen on other synthetics turn the corner hard …
Have seen Castrol Magnetec with oxidation so bad it was a charcoal corn dog on the dipstick … This did not require blackstone to see it was toast - it appeared to be thixotropic - so relative viscosity would seem to be false under critical HTHS conditions …

Welcome to the BITOG section of “Enrich Your Word Power!”

I’ll admit I had no idea what “thixotropic” meant. I was guessing it had something to do with TropArtic motor oil from Phillips 66. Hmmm…….not.

To enlighten us less scientifically gifted BITOGERS, pasted below is an explanation from Wikipedia. I love the analogy with ketchup!


“Thixotropy is a time-dependent shear thinning property. Certain gels or fluids that are thick or viscous under static conditions will flow (become thinner, less viscous) over time when shaken, agitated, shear-stressed, or otherwise stressed (time-dependent viscosity). They then take a fixed time to return to a more viscous state.[1] Some non-Newtonian pseudoplastic fluids show a time-dependent change in viscosity; the longer the fluid undergoes shear stress, the lower its viscosity. A thixotropic fluid is a fluid which takes a finite time to attain equilibrium viscosity when introduced to a steep change in shear rate. Some thixotropic fluids return to a gel state almost instantly, such as ketchup, and are called pseudoplastic fluids. Others such as yogurttake much longer and can become nearly solid. Many gels and colloids are thixotropic materials, exhibiting a stable form at rest but becoming fluid when agitated. Thixotropy arises because particles or structured solutes require time to organize. An overview of thixotropy has been provided by Mewis and Wagner.[2]

Some fluids are anti-thixotropic: constant shear stress for a time causes an increase in viscosity or even solidification. Fluids which exhibit this property are sometimes called rheopectic. Anti-thixotropic fluids are less well documented than thixotropic fluids.[2]”

 

[kschachn]

Another good example is Silly Putty.

 

[OVERKILL]

I recall reading some posts where HPL has tested as sheer stable and maintaining the 20wt even after an extended OCI of 15-20K miles. While I'm still wrapping my head around some of the concepts here - wt, HTHS, etc - I'm curious if the HPL 0W20 would compared in performance to say a weighter 0W30 from another brand.

HPL in applications that don't have issues with fuel dilution, tends to show a bit of thickening in service, rather than shear. This was readily observable on both of my vehicles, whose port injected HEMI's don't fuel dilute the oil.

If you are using a lab like OAI that properly measures fuel dilution, and you are legitimately seeing the results of mechanical shear with a 0W-30, and it's turning into a 0W-20, well, you aren't going to see that with HPL. My 0W-20 ended up at the bottom end of the xW-30 range during service.

So, what is the application, what is the spec viscosity and what are you trying to achieve?

 

[cammyfive79]

HPL in applications that don't have issues with fuel dilution, tends to show a bit of thickening in service, rather than shear. This was readily observable on both of my vehicles, whose port injected HEMI's don't fuel dilute the oil.

If you are using a lab like OAI that properly measures fuel dilution, and you are legitimately seeing the results of mechanical shear with a 0W-30, and it's turning into a 0W-20, well, you aren't going to see that with HPL. My 0W-20 ended up at the bottom end of the xW-30 range during service.

So, what is the application, what is the spec viscosity and what are you trying to achieve?

Thanks for replying. So the two cars in my signature are what HPL is currently in. I'm more concerned - well not "concerned" so much as cautiously curious - about the CX-90 with the new I-6T. The owners manual says 0W20 for USA/Canada and 5W30 for the rest of the world. I initially went with their entry level 5W30 but because I want to be careful I don't do anything to throw a monkey wrench in a potential warranty claim someday I'm considering switching back to 0W20....which is what I use in the other (my) Mazda, which history shows is perfectly fine as it is naturally aspirated. It will be a few months before I'll do an OCI on the I-6T and send it off to OAI for a test of fuel dilution or any other potential issues.....thus my initial caution with using a 5W30.

The other, more financially prudent (albeit a smaller part of me ) side of me would love to have both cars on HPL 0W20 since the 3 Hatch takes under 5qts and the CX-90 takes about 6.5 quarts.....I could get away ordering 3 gallons for both of them rather than the oddball 6 qts for one in 0W20 and then 7 qts for the other in 5W30. Your customer blend of the 0W20 Overkill intrigues me the most as I *think* it would be the best of all worlds - staying at recommended grade, being super robust and not thinning out terribly, etc. OCI will be 6 months/7500 miles to stay "warranty compliant" until the 3 year/36K runs out then moving up to 10K or even 15K miles.