How well would the U.S. survive a collapse?

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Originally Posted By: John_K
When a welfare state collapses, you are in deep doo-doo.

John

So you are saying that the current US is a welfare society?
Define welfare for us. Do you mean social programs?

I think its ironic that soviet communism produced a population less dependent on the state than the US or Canada has...

Although it would be an interesting exercise to see what would happen to an area in N.A. if the government just left town. I'd imagine the population would either recreate the elected government, have a dictator take power and rule like a king, or just have the general mayhem of warring factions...

Maybe this something like this should be the basis of the next generation of "Survivor" shows...
Plonk 400 volunteers in some rural area(without weapons) and see what type of society they come up with on their own.
Ian
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I think it's ironic that soviet communism produced a population less dependent on the state than the US or Canada has...

I've been in a soviet communist country during the Brezhnev era. Everyone I know referred to the USSR as a welfare state. When communism left, people didn't know what to do for a living. They were dependent on the government for everything.

On the other hand, the official economy in those days was only part of the real economy. They also had an underground economy where people basically bartered what they could steal from their employer. That's why working in the food business (production or restaurant) was one of the more coveted jobs. A cousin was an electrician... his apartment building had no problem with working lights. An uncle was a driver for a gov't official... his friends and family got around.
 
I'm probably the only guy here who read his book and he has valid points. Basically, Russians survived their collapse (due entirely to the bottoming of petroleum prices) because they were used to having nothing so there wasn't much to lose anyway whereas Americans still have a long way to fall. Most housing in the FSU is supplied by the state so there wasn't a loss there although video of that era shows people in their apartment buildings sitting inside with winter clothes on! They are pretty much a homogenous people so that eliminates racial strife during difficult times? His book was good and funny to read and although he's from there he definitely prefers life in the USA.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I think its ironic that soviet communism produced a population less dependent on the state than the US or Canada has...



The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled...

In my travels abroad - almost exclusively to Big Gov't socialist European "welfare states", I can confirm that we here in North America are much, much, *much* more ubiquitously regulated and generally lorded over in our day-to-day lives than elsewhere in the developed world.

I think any government; given enough time and enough money, will creep to the level of Arbiter Of All Things Good And Just, and will enforce it's subject to abide... Remember, ask not what your country can do for you!
 
"How well would the U.S. survive a collapse?"

We may be on the verge of finding out .....
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.... hey look !! 3000 posts !! ( all keepers !!)
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Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
"How well would the U.S. survive a collapse?"

We may be on the verge of finding out .....
frown.gif


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.
.
.... hey look !! 3000 posts !! ( all keepers !!)
happy2.gif



Come on, old feller - You've been around long enough (3000 posts!) to know that the sky ain't falling. It's a recession: Not only do they happen as an intrinsic part of our economy, but this one was exacerbated, accelerated and compounded by stupidity and greed; which also probably work cyclically.

You know how we can *all* get out of this mess? *Shop locally*. No more Wal-Mart; it's killing us and is just as representative of North American stupidity and greed as the behavior of the a**hats that started all this.

I, for one, *welcome* this shock to the North American system... Perhaps it'll straighten us all out and get us thinking about our own communities, priorities and values again.
 
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more

I, for one, *welcome* this shock to the North American system... Perhaps it'll straighten us all out and get us thinking about our own communities, priorities and values again.


Couldn't agree more. Our priorities as a people, a society, a family if you will, have become so warped it's scary.
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more

I, for one, *welcome* this shock to the North American system... Perhaps it'll straighten us all out and get us thinking about our own communities, priorities and values again.


Couldn't agree more. Our priorities as a people, a society, a family if you will, have become so warped it's scary.


thumbsup2.gif
With you on that one...
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more

I, for one, *welcome* this shock to the North American system... Perhaps it'll straighten us all out and get us thinking about our own communities, priorities and values again.


Couldn't agree more. Our priorities as a people, a society, a family if you will, have become so warped it's scary.


Looking back through history tells us that *all* dominant societies self destruct through decadence and arrogance. We get soft, we get lazy and we become disconnected to the things we cannot afford to become disconnected from. Then, a hungrier group of people will come to usurp us. They'll work hard where we slothed so that their children can have a better life. This will continue until their children's children's children's lives are so easy that they start spending all of their time on internet forums; at which point a hungrier people will..........

If anyone needs me, I'll be up in the tree in the back yard with my shortwave radio, face paint and blow gun. If the apocalypse *doesn't* hit by morning, can someone bring me up a sandwich?
 
Originally Posted By: moribundman
I'm watching Jericho again. I knew that show was cancelled for a good reason!
LOL.gif



Good short series. Makes you think about life differently. I am not talking about the nukes.
 
Originally Posted By: wulimaster
Good short series.


There will be a feature movie, a sequel to the series.
 
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more

I, for one, *welcome* this shock to the North American system... Perhaps it'll straighten us all out and get us thinking about our own communities, priorities and values again.


Couldn't agree more. Our priorities as a people, a society, a family if you will, have become so warped it's scary.


thumbsup2.gif
With you on that one...


We are already changing. Pretty soon the media will be pushing family values over materialism. Of course without consumerism, people lose their jobs and we enter into a self fulfilling prophecy of change toward socialism as we end up with the ability to meet everyones needs without having to have everyone work. It is either that or decide what to do with the "useless eaters" who do not work (not because they do not wish to but because excess work will produce unsalable goods).

It is amazing how quickly the world can be pushed into the situation we are now in by simply withholding credit. Or is that money. Or is that more Debt? It gets confusing after a while.

"You can give a bank money, but you can't make them lend"

Just my version of leading a horse to water.

I can't understand why the banks would want to lend money when they can just wait and buy up real assets for pennies on the dollar when the most lucrative companies fold during bankruptcy. I don't see the incentive to bail them out.
It is a shame that they will probably do this with taxpayer money while they dump their bad assets into a "BAD BANK".

Russia is currently buying back the natural resources that were given away with privatization during Yeltsin's rein. I would guess the banks will do the same here in the USA. Have any of the large banks stocks made a recovery yet? I suspect they will just prior to going on a spending spree. Perhaps after the spending spree, they will loan money to the companies they have purchased and a recovery of some kind will begin to take place.




"The private-benefit corporation is an institution granted a legally protected right -- some would claim obligation -- to pursue a narrow private interest without regard to broader social and environmental consequences. If it were a real person, it would fit the clinical profile of a sociopath." 
--David Korten--
 
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