How we are getting boned on bandwidth in Ontario

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OVERKILL

OVERKILL

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So, on my recent trip out east I discovered that BELL Aliant is running Fibre to the Home pretty much everywhere in NB and NS. My MIL has their least expensive bundle, which is 50/30. You can get right up to 175/30 at this point.

In Ontario, Bell is pandering "fibe" on us, which is just VDSL2. This is also what I have (VDSL2) through my local ISP. The only company offering fibre here with no insane installation charge is Rogers, but it is only commercial so the prices reflect that. They don't offer "best effort" home service like Bell is doing out east. We have their dedicated 100/100 service at work.

How is it that the largest market in Canada, Central Ontario, appears to have the worst selection of high speed internet options? Did I mention that the FibreOP (what Bell Aliant is marketing it under) is unlimited with not usage caps? Yeah. Unlike what Bell Canada has in Ontario, or Cogeco or Rogers or....etc. The list goes on.

I find it somewhat amusing that New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, which, combined, have a population a fraction of that of the GTA alone (1.67 million people vs 6 million in the GTA) have much better options here with no caps, overage fees...etc and far greater bandwidth than what we, with a much larger user base, have in Ontario. Go figure
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Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
It's not fibre, but do you have Teksavvy in your area?



Yes. But they would be leveraging Cogeco's cable, so maximum package is 60/2. And there is an overage charge of $.50/GB unless you pay $200/month for their unlimited package.

In comparison, the 175/30 Bell Aliant package is unlimited for $70.00 introductory and then $100/month after that
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Man, most people in the US can't even get fibre. I'm not saying my 25/5 is slow, but I certainly wouldn't even complain if 100+ was available for the same money.
 
Maybe there's more existing infrastructure in Ontario, and thus more potential infrastructure headaches associated with offering the higher bandwidth options?

Maybe they don't yet have the infrastructure to offer those options to large numbers of people in Ontario?
 
Overkill,

Would you really need the 150MB of service? A good portion of your time is spent on BITOG ;-P.

I switched from Bell to Teksavvy DSL, cause my kids were chewing up the bandwidth. Teksavvy's Cable service of 45 MB unlimited is $99 a month.

I'm much happier with Teksavvy.

Regards, JC.
 
Originally Posted By: JC1
Overkill,

Would you really need the 150MB of service? A good portion of your time is spent on BITOG ;-P.

I switched from Bell to Teksavvy DSL, cause my kids were chewing up the bandwidth. Teksavvy's Cable service of 45 MB unlimited is $99 a month.

I'm much happier with Teksavvy.

Regards, JC.


Yes, LOL! I love our 100Mbit service at work, it is phenomenal. I can chew through 1TB+ in a month depending on what I'm downloading, so I have to have something unlimited (like I have currently). It irks me that if I lived out east that I could have 175/30 unlimited for not much more than I am paying for my current 24/4.

Think about it, out east, for what you are paying for TS 45, you'd have 175/30
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When i hear things like this "follow the money" always comes to mind.
Who's paying it and who's getting it?

There is one town here where a cable company had a lock on the town even though the other offered fiber. Accusations of payoffs to town fathers were rampant.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Maybe there's more existing infrastructure in Ontario, and thus more potential infrastructure headaches associated with offering the higher bandwidth options?

Maybe they don't yet have the infrastructure to offer those options to large numbers of people in Ontario?


My town has 80% fibre coverage, as do I'm sure many large towns in Ontario. The government paid for that roll out, that was handled through the utility infrastructure back in the late 90's/early 2000's. Most of these utility ISP's, after doing their deployments and not getting the customer base they expected were sold to a specific company:

http://www.atrianetworks.com/news/atria-...telecom-assets/

Quote:
Date: September 24, 2008
Source: Atria Networks
Contact: Larry Doran, Perterborough Utilities Inc.; Steven McCartney, Atria Networks LP

Atria Networks buys fibre-optic network to extend reach in Ontario market

(Kitchener/Peterborough, ON)

Atria Networks LP today announced that it has acquired the telecom assets of Peterborough Utilities Inc., supplier of fibre-optic and wireless services for the City of Peterborough and surrounding areas.

Since 1997, Peterborough Utilities has been responsible for building, owning and operating a world-class fibre-optic network in its service communities. More recently, they have begun supplying wireless services to select customers.

“At Peterborough Utilities, we realized that it would be very challenging to continue to grow our telecom business beyond our traditional service territory. However many of our customers wanted us to support a much wider coverage area. We determined that it was better for our customers and our Shareholder, the City of Peterborough, to undertake a strategic divesture to a larger and a more diversified telecom provider. We are confident that our customers will be well served by Atria Networks” said Larry Doran, President & CEO of Peterborough Utilities Inc.

For Atria Networks, the acquisition of Peterborough Utilities telecom assets follows the addition of Telecom Ottawa in May of this year.


That company was then later purchased by a rather well-known ISP:

http://www.atrianetworks.com/news/rogers...tions-offering/

Quote:
Atria’s unique and scalable network includes 5,600 fibre route kilometers and over 3,800 on-net buildings in high-growth territories including Ottawa, Cornwall, Kitchener-Waterloo, Cambridge, Guelph, Richmond Hill, Markham, Hamilton, Barrie, Orillia, Peterborough and Vaughan. Atria serves a diverse customer base of over 1,100 customers spanning the public sector, enterprise and carrier providers.


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At this time, that infrastructure is being used solely to service business, healthcare, government.....etc. But it is there. The thing is that in the current provider market, no one ISP sees it necessary to give consumers fibre. Whilst down east, for some reason they do
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Originally Posted By: Brybo86
how Much is their 50/30? I'm perfectly happy paying $30USD a month for 25/5. what exactly do you do with 100/100?


$39.00 for three-month intro and then $70.00 after that.

Our 100/100 handles a fair bit of VPN traffic, IP Phone traffic....etc. In a business environment it is very easy to justify and utilize a symmetrical 100Mbit service. For a home user that justification would be a bit harder, but I'd sure as heck try, LOL!!
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Last time I spoke with Bell, they mentioned if you got the bundle of home phone, Cable and internet with Fibe, then you would get unlimited. Not sure if this is an option for you to save some coin?

We are getting fleeced!

Regards, JC.
 
Originally Posted By: JC1
Last time I spoke with Bell, they mentioned if you got the bundle of home phone, Cable and internet with Fibe, then you would get unlimited. Not sure if this is an option for you to save some coin?

We are getting fleeced!

Regards, JC.


But Fibe is just VDSL2. I already have VDSL2 and I pay less for it and phone that I would through BELL. But with my location relative to the CO, the best speed I can get is 24/4. I'm quite happy with my ISP, they have great customer service and their pricing, compared to what else is available in Ontario, is good as well.

My issue is that it seems that other parts of the country are getting fibre to the home and for some reason the largest consumer base on Canada isn't, LOL! Which defies logic to me
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It has to do with the technology that exists. I work for a major telecom co in Canada and the technology changes rapidly and it takes a long time to transition customers off of one type of port and move to another. Dmt 1 & 2 went to adsl 2+ and now to vdsl. Vdsl wont support much more than 100mb or so approximately. I cant speak for out east in NB, but for QC and ON I am certain thats about as high as you will see it unless they offer you gpon which is fiber right to your home. Alot easier for cable providers to push much higher speeds. The nature of the technology of DSL is highly limited to the DSLAM limitation as well as your distance from it as the further away the slower the max attainable speed the provider can give you. My guess is that in NB its fiber to their house that was in place already. I do think capabilities need to be increased alot but transitioning thousands of customers and upgrading or removing old equipment costs alot, incurs downtime and problems as well..its complicated for DSL providers.

Less space in Toronto than in NB..which means they can set up new C.O's resulting in smoother transitions and less limitations and fewer customers to transition over. Transitioning millions of ppl is extremely difficult especially in a highly competitive market. Put a few thousand customers out of service and they will switch providers. Thus the reason change is done very gradually.
 
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Originally Posted By: Rolla07
My guess is that in NB its fiber to their house that was in place already.


Nope. None of the people that have got this service had existing fibre. There's a build and the fibre is run into the house to a media converter which then gives you a 1Gbps link to the provided wireless router and a POTS port that is connected to your existing home phone service.

And to be clear, this is in both NB AND NS, not just NB.

Quote:
Less space in Toronto than in NB..which means they can set up new C.O's resulting in smoother transitions and less limitations and fewer customers to transition over. Transitioning millions of ppl is extremely difficult especially in a highly competitive market. Put a few thousand customers out of service and they will switch providers. Thus the reason change is done very gradually.


We aren't talking about transitions though, we are talking about an entirely new service: Fibre to the home.

Yes, roll-out upgrades on existing technologies are always done in a progressive manner for the reasons you've described but that's not what is being discussed.

BTW, Bell is also starting to offer it in Ontario, but nowhere near the GTA:

http://fibreop.ca/PS/en/shop/fibreop.jsp?lang=en&prov=on

Quote:
FibreOP is now rolling out in : Greater Sudbury, Sault Ste. Marie, North Bay and Timmins


LOL!
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IMHO, they are milking the cash cow of existing infrastructure in Ontario. Since much of that didn't exist out east it wasn't there to milk so just going full-bore with the end-game, which is of course FTTH made more sense.
 
ETTS and GPON has been around awhile but the truth is not many people are requesting it out west in Canada..i cant speak for east though..but from what I see the prices are way too high for most to request much faster speeds. Current rates in quebec for 120mb to 200mb with current cable provider is 140-200$ a month..not many want to pay that but again i dont get why its so cheap in NB and NS...i guess they figure they can keep rates higher in mtl and toronto areas...
 
Oversold bandwidth resulting in slow peak time speeds and packet loss with no fix in sight is the norm here in the states. You've got it made.
 
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
but again i dont get why its so cheap in NB and NS...i guess they figure they can keep rates higher in mtl and toronto areas...


Exactly
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So you share my confusion/frustration on this.
 
I have skipped over most of this thread so forgive me if this has been posted; but (although it isn't fibre) Distributel re-sells Cogeco's services *without* a bandwidth cap. I noted that you poo-poo'd TekSavvy in the 3rd post due to bandwidth overage charges. I went from paying darn near $80/month to $45 for the exact same package (14m down, 1m up), minus the bandwidth cap.
 
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
I have skipped over most of this thread so forgive me if this has been posted; but (although it isn't fibre) Distributel re-sells Cogeco's services *without* a bandwidth cap. I noted that you poo-poo'd TekSavvy in the 3rd post due to bandwidth overage charges. I went from paying darn near $80/month to $45 for the exact same package (14m down, 1m up), minus the bandwidth cap.


It wasn't a poo poo, simply a note that it was a re-sell of Cogeco's service, which I'm sure they are paying a fair bill for. This is similar to the situation with my current ISP who, outside of their home area and the service radius of the CO, have to utilize Bell remotes. Needless to say, what they can offer on the remotes does not match what they can offer in the areas they can service natively.

They also offer unlimited (everywhere).

I'd really like you to go back and read the rest of this thread if you have the time
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