How to turn a Prius into a Plug-in hybrid
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Neato - but what about the lower cost strap ons? They were mentioned briefly, but I didn't see any details (I could have missed it)
you said strap on...
Didn't mean it THAT way.
I didn't feel like googlating it but I THOUGHT there were some wire harness kits and maybe an extra battery box or two for a plug in conversion. I could be on crack.....
I didn't feel like googlating it but I THOUGHT there were some wire harness kits and maybe an extra battery box or two for a plug in conversion. I could be on crack.....
Well wiring alone doesn't do much. As mentioned in the article, the standard battery is tiny, around 1.5kWh
The big cost is the additional battery packs, which cost at least $10K
The big cost is the additional battery packs, which cost at least $10K
There are several kits out there, and sets of plans for conversions. And if you're up to it, you can make your own supplemental traction battery for a lot less than $10k. There's one guy who as a really nice looking one that he encased in a large Tupperware-type bin which fits into the compartment above the spare and below the main cargo floor (which is easily removable).
All this begs the question of why? Sure, for dedicated short-trippers, the plug-in feature can be a big plus (but you pay for that electricity too, so it's not a freebie).
Bob, I realize that "tiny" is a subjective term that can be interpreted in different ways, but I wouldn't call the traction battery that. Physically, it's about the size of a small-medium suitcase, and given the constraints imposed by ECU programming, you can get several miles of electric only running, if you drive carefully (or install an EV button). The ECU is programmed not to allow the TB's SoC to rise above 80% or drop below 40% of absoute capacity. This, and additional constraints on rate of charge, temperature, etc., ensure a long battery life.
All this begs the question of why? Sure, for dedicated short-trippers, the plug-in feature can be a big plus (but you pay for that electricity too, so it's not a freebie).
Bob, I realize that "tiny" is a subjective term that can be interpreted in different ways, but I wouldn't call the traction battery that. Physically, it's about the size of a small-medium suitcase, and given the constraints imposed by ECU programming, you can get several miles of electric only running, if you drive carefully (or install an EV button). The ECU is programmed not to allow the TB's SoC to rise above 80% or drop below 40% of absoute capacity. This, and additional constraints on rate of charge, temperature, etc., ensure a long battery life.
I'm old enough that I never thought I would See the day that a car would cost $ 10.000.00 now you are talking 10K for the battery. RIDICULOUS
These things may be OK when new but god help you if you keep it until things start going wrong.
I see these as throw away cars because it would cost more to maintain than it was worth.
Not just the outrageous cost of the battery but all the other [censored] on it.
I live in a rural area so I have no city driving to speak of so I would prefer a turbo diesel that gave me 50 mpg over the hybrid with all the extra things to go wrong.
The hybrid has the ICE and everything that a normal car would have but then a lot of extra gadgets to maintain.
NO THANKS MAKE MINE LESS COSTLY TO MAINTAIN
These things may be OK when new but god help you if you keep it until things start going wrong.
I see these as throw away cars because it would cost more to maintain than it was worth.
Not just the outrageous cost of the battery but all the other [censored] on it.
I live in a rural area so I have no city driving to speak of so I would prefer a turbo diesel that gave me 50 mpg over the hybrid with all the extra things to go wrong.
The hybrid has the ICE and everything that a normal car would have but then a lot of extra gadgets to maintain.
NO THANKS MAKE MINE LESS COSTLY TO MAINTAIN
Originally Posted By: Black Bart
I'm old enough that I never thought I would See the day that a car would cost $ 10.000.00 now you are talking 10K for the battery. RIDICULOUS
These things may be OK when new but god help you if you keep it until things start going wrong.
I see these as throw away cars because it would cost more to maintain than it was worth.
Not just the outrageous cost of the battery but all the other [censored] on it.
I live in a rural area so I have no city driving to speak of so I would prefer a turbo diesel that gave me 50 mpg over the hybrid with all the extra things to go wrong.
The hybrid has the ICE and everything that a normal car would have but then a lot of extra gadgets to maintain.
NO THANKS MAKE MINE LESS COSTLY TO MAINTAIN
Black Bart:
You're slurping at the GM anti-Toyota propaganda trough. The traction battery in a Prius costs $2,300 to replace if you buy a new one, substantially less if you get a refurb. And after almost ten years of Prius real-world experience, for the vast majority of Prii, the traction bettery last the entire life of the car.
Before I bought mine, I walked over to the parts department and got a quote for a new traction battery -- $2,300, (two thousand, three hundred dollars) period. This nonsense about $10k for a new battery is just that -- total nonsense. Please check your facts before posting stuff like this.
I'm old enough that I never thought I would See the day that a car would cost $ 10.000.00 now you are talking 10K for the battery. RIDICULOUS
These things may be OK when new but god help you if you keep it until things start going wrong.
I see these as throw away cars because it would cost more to maintain than it was worth.
Not just the outrageous cost of the battery but all the other [censored] on it.
I live in a rural area so I have no city driving to speak of so I would prefer a turbo diesel that gave me 50 mpg over the hybrid with all the extra things to go wrong.
The hybrid has the ICE and everything that a normal car would have but then a lot of extra gadgets to maintain.
NO THANKS MAKE MINE LESS COSTLY TO MAINTAIN
Black Bart:
You're slurping at the GM anti-Toyota propaganda trough. The traction battery in a Prius costs $2,300 to replace if you buy a new one, substantially less if you get a refurb. And after almost ten years of Prius real-world experience, for the vast majority of Prii, the traction bettery last the entire life of the car.
Before I bought mine, I walked over to the parts department and got a quote for a new traction battery -- $2,300, (two thousand, three hundred dollars) period. This nonsense about $10k for a new battery is just that -- total nonsense. Please check your facts before posting stuff like this.
Originally Posted By: Black Bart
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The hybrid has the ICE and everything that a normal car would have but then a lot of extra gadgets to maintain.
NO THANKS MAKE MINE LESS COSTLY TO MAINTAIN
That's baloney too. You forgot to mention that the CVT transmission in a Prius has about eight moving parts (look at the diagram for a simple planetary gear set) versus the hundreds of moving parts found in a contemporary multi-speed auto.
You're not in cahoots with Art Spinella, are you?
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The hybrid has the ICE and everything that a normal car would have but then a lot of extra gadgets to maintain.
NO THANKS MAKE MINE LESS COSTLY TO MAINTAIN
That's baloney too. You forgot to mention that the CVT transmission in a Prius has about eight moving parts (look at the diagram for a simple planetary gear set) versus the hundreds of moving parts found in a contemporary multi-speed auto.
You're not in cahoots with Art Spinella, are you?
Originally Posted By: Black Bart
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The hybrid has the ICE and everything that a normal car would have but then a lot of extra gadgets to maintain.
NO THANKS MAKE MINE LESS COSTLY TO MAINTAIN
Oh yeah, I forgot to add that the HSD cars also have NO ALTERNATOR at all, and NO STARTER MOTOR at all, so this statement is just plain FALSE. Gee, never seen a GM car drop a starter or alternator...
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The hybrid has the ICE and everything that a normal car would have but then a lot of extra gadgets to maintain.
NO THANKS MAKE MINE LESS COSTLY TO MAINTAIN
Oh yeah, I forgot to add that the HSD cars also have NO ALTERNATOR at all, and NO STARTER MOTOR at all, so this statement is just plain FALSE. Gee, never seen a GM car drop a starter or alternator...
Technology is capable of changing faster than people are. That's IMO a very important consideration whenever any sort of major cultural shift is at hand. In the long run, it will probably be a culture's ability to accept change, rather than researchers' ability to provide it, that will determine who succeeds and who fails, in global terms. I don't want to mention any of the no-no political topics here, but I believe this tendency is the cause of all sorts of scientific/political controversies. Just something that occurred to me reading this thread.
I always wondered why Toyota didn't offer a plug-in option for the Prius. I'd heard other explanations but it seems that the issue of battery capacity must the the main one.
I hope GM is able to bring the Volt to market. I'd love to see them do something right, and that would be a big one.
I always wondered why Toyota didn't offer a plug-in option for the Prius. I'd heard other explanations but it seems that the issue of battery capacity must the the main one.
I hope GM is able to bring the Volt to market. I'd love to see them do something right, and that would be a big one.
Originally Posted By: glennc
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I always wondered why Toyota didn't offer a plug-in option for the Prius. I'd heard other explanations but it seems that the issue of battery capacity must the the main one....
They have not offered plug-in because it's not really consistent with what this car is meant to do. In the HSD cars (not just Prius, but Camry, Highlander, RX, GS, and LS) the battery is intended to be a short-term "energy buffer" that captures a few decelerations worth of energy that in normal cars would be thrown away as heat in the brakes. This design keeps the battery very light, and makes 100% use of "salvaged" energy, rather than energy drawn off the grid. Pure electric plug-ins, and plug-in hybrids are a different animal.
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I always wondered why Toyota didn't offer a plug-in option for the Prius. I'd heard other explanations but it seems that the issue of battery capacity must the the main one....
They have not offered plug-in because it's not really consistent with what this car is meant to do. In the HSD cars (not just Prius, but Camry, Highlander, RX, GS, and LS) the battery is intended to be a short-term "energy buffer" that captures a few decelerations worth of energy that in normal cars would be thrown away as heat in the brakes. This design keeps the battery very light, and makes 100% use of "salvaged" energy, rather than energy drawn off the grid. Pure electric plug-ins, and plug-in hybrids are a different animal.
Come back and tell me how great it is in a few years.
Where will your prius be 10 years from now.
Where will your prius be 10 years from now.
Originally Posted By: Black Bart
Come back and tell me how great it is in a few years.
Where will your prius be 10 years from now.
Well, they've been selling them here since 2001 (that includes the smaller, previous generation sedan-shaped car), and around the world for five or six years before that. So far, they're holding up fine.
Frankly, I doubt I'll have mine in ten years (it would have about 500k miles at that point, maybe somewhat less). I just wouldn't want to own ANY car that long, but hey, who knows. Of the last four or five cars I've owned, the Prius is the only one I could see myself driving for a long, long time.
EDIT: and one thing's for sure, no matter how long I own it, I won't replace any alternators or starters.
Come back and tell me how great it is in a few years.
Where will your prius be 10 years from now.
Well, they've been selling them here since 2001 (that includes the smaller, previous generation sedan-shaped car), and around the world for five or six years before that. So far, they're holding up fine.
Frankly, I doubt I'll have mine in ten years (it would have about 500k miles at that point, maybe somewhat less). I just wouldn't want to own ANY car that long, but hey, who knows. Of the last four or five cars I've owned, the Prius is the only one I could see myself driving for a long, long time.
EDIT: and one thing's for sure, no matter how long I own it, I won't replace any alternators or starters.
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Toyota has done a great job with the Prius V.2, but it WILL NOT last very long (battery) being used as a plug-in. The cycle life will kill the battery. As EL said, said is about $2300.
I worked on a power storage project for my company and know well before the Prius started selling well, that it cannot be used as a plug-in, unless you want to go through a lot of batteries.
The solution is to use capacitors to extend the cycle life, but there is a long ways to go. Don't believe the hype about Lithium ion batteries that are used in phones, laptops. They have a long ways to go also.
Eventually the two will come together and this will a break through.
The solution will have to be low cost, long term durable, and have very long run time.
There are lots of car companies, battery companies, etc. working on this.
The optimal solution will likely be an electronic clutch 6-speed with ultracaps, and an advanced battery that can be plugged in. A diesel engine will be the backup. All of the major mfgs are working on this. First one wins a lot of sales.
Don't assume it will be low performance either.
I worked on a power storage project for my company and know well before the Prius started selling well, that it cannot be used as a plug-in, unless you want to go through a lot of batteries.
The solution is to use capacitors to extend the cycle life, but there is a long ways to go. Don't believe the hype about Lithium ion batteries that are used in phones, laptops. They have a long ways to go also.
Eventually the two will come together and this will a break through.
The solution will have to be low cost, long term durable, and have very long run time.
There are lots of car companies, battery companies, etc. working on this.
The optimal solution will likely be an electronic clutch 6-speed with ultracaps, and an advanced battery that can be plugged in. A diesel engine will be the backup. All of the major mfgs are working on this. First one wins a lot of sales.
Don't assume it will be low performance either.
Originally Posted By: ffracer
Toyota has done a great job with the Prius V.2, but it WILL NOT last very long (battery) being used as a plug-in. The cycle life will kill the battery. As EL said, said is about $2300.
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Good point. One of the lurking issues that, alarmingly, does not seem to get addressed by all of the plug-in tinkerers is management of charge state. When the car is running, the ECU is very "strict" in never allowing the traction battery to go above 80% or below 40% SoC. It also regulates rate of charge, temp, and other parameters to ensure a long battery life.
If someone does a half-baked plug-in conversion, and routinely over-charges that battery, they probably will end up buying a new one.
I'm really not interested in a plug-in for myself at all. The real magic of the hybrids, IMO, is their ability to capture and reuse energy that's normally wasted as heat in the brakes. With a plug-in, you're just paying for another form of fuel, whereas regenerated juice is essentially free.
Toyota has done a great job with the Prius V.2, but it WILL NOT last very long (battery) being used as a plug-in. The cycle life will kill the battery. As EL said, said is about $2300.
...
Good point. One of the lurking issues that, alarmingly, does not seem to get addressed by all of the plug-in tinkerers is management of charge state. When the car is running, the ECU is very "strict" in never allowing the traction battery to go above 80% or below 40% SoC. It also regulates rate of charge, temp, and other parameters to ensure a long battery life.
If someone does a half-baked plug-in conversion, and routinely over-charges that battery, they probably will end up buying a new one.
I'm really not interested in a plug-in for myself at all. The real magic of the hybrids, IMO, is their ability to capture and reuse energy that's normally wasted as heat in the brakes. With a plug-in, you're just paying for another form of fuel, whereas regenerated juice is essentially free.
I'd drive one.
Ideal Hybrid set-up would be ICE-fwd and the electric regen and power done through the rears so you can have AWD kick-in under a slip condition. Maybe you could not run all the regen through the rear because of brake bias, but adding electro-awd would be a plus.
Ideal Hybrid set-up would be ICE-fwd and the electric regen and power done through the rears so you can have AWD kick-in under a slip condition. Maybe you could not run all the regen through the rear because of brake bias, but adding electro-awd would be a plus.
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