A BBin 69 Camaro running the temperatures described is hot.
Those who have owned modified 67-72 Camaro's know this .
Mike pm me and will talk.
Those who have owned modified 67-72 Camaro's know this .
Mike pm me and will talk.
Do these cars count? '68 L36 Corvette, '65 4-4-2From what I have read so far posted no one has owned a 1967-1972 with a BB. I know from this point I am sure to get the laughing likes and usual responses .
Your engine's temperatures are fine. You don't need to do anything. Changing the coolant ratios will not change your engine's operating temperatures, only the coolant's freezing and boiling points.. I would run a 50/50 mix, giving a boiling point of 265 degrees. You are far from that.I've got a modified 454 in my 69 Camaro and it runs a little warm. I've heard that if I changed the coolant mix from the over the counter 50/50 to 40/60 or even 30/70 with the adder being distilled water... it might run a little cooler. Has anyone ever experimented with cooling mixes alone and seen any gain? I know water is the best coolant on the planet, but I also know that coolant helps lubricate the system and has additives that will prolong the life of an engine and parts. And of course... it gives protection from freezing. My car is a 3 season restomod, it mainly sleep in the garage during the winter, and I only take it out after a good rain that washes away the salt. Temps in my garage have never gone below 15° and this car has never ever been left outside in all the years I've owned it. So a 30/70 mix won't give me -45° protection, but I think it'll be good to around -10°?
When I say warm, on an 85° day this summer running down the highway the temp gauge shows around 195-200. I have dual 12" eFans that are electronically controlled (PWM) to go on at 195°. I would like to get the temp down on the highway to around 190° so the fans will shut down and just let the 65 mph breeze do its job. If I get into traffic, the temp will go up to around 210-220 and stay there pretty much unless I can't move. The car has AC and air has to flow through the AC condenser and then through the radiator. One other alternative is to add a pusher fan out front, another is to find 2 new eFans that pull more air thru the fins. But before I spend more money on fans I want to think about the coolant mix.
Opinions?
The heat capacity of a 30/70 antifreeze mixture is approximately 10% higher than a 50/50 mixture, which is barely significant. Pure water has about 20% higher heat capacity than a 50/50 mixture. The metal temperature in the engine would theoretically run cooler with a weaker antifreeze mixture since the coolant would absorb more heat before it's temperature rose, but calculating how much cooler would probably take a super computer. Just a hunch, but I would bet that a 10 degree cooler thermostat would have more effect on engine metal temperature than a weaker antifreeze mixture.
Do these cars count? '68 L36 Corvette, '65 4-4-2
I'm not sure anyone else who mods econobox cars has an EGO that is biggerFor one reason you all are looking at the wrong area of the engine. From what I have read so far posted no one has owned a 1967-1972 with a BB.
When I say warm, on an 85° day this summer running down the highway the temp gauge shows around 195-200. I have dual 12" eFans that are electronically controlled (PWM) to go on at 195°. I would like to get the temp down on the highway to around 190° so the fans will shut down and just let the 65 mph breeze do its job. If I get into traffic, the temp will go up to around 210-220 and stay there pretty much unless I can't move.
Opinions?
Most racing rules require plain water, because glycol is slippery when spilled on the track.There is a reason nobody that is seriously racing is using 50/50 mix
Yes, that is also true, but doesn't negate what I said. In racing you're pulling out all the stops to keep the system as low a temperature as possible.Most racing rules require plain water, because glycol is slippery when spilled on the track.
The only thing that stands out to me is how hot it might be in the engine bay and whether you're really getting cooler air accross the radiator...so how the fans are oriented and the flaps that you mention if they're actually functioning like you expect them to.Wow... a ton of suggestions and more. OK, how about I post some pix of the setup. That might help. But first a simple explanation of the PWM setup. It is not infinitely adjustable. The manufacturer offers 160°, 180°, and 195° sensors that are attached to the radiator tank next to the outlet hose neck. My current thermostat is a 160° EMP/Stewart and I just switched last week from a 180° EMP/Stewart. Haven't noticed much of a change in the situation, it just takes a couple of minutes more to get to that 195° level where the fans kick in and don't stop.
Mike:Wow... a ton of suggestions and more. OK, how about I post some pix of the setup. That might help. But first a simple explanation of the PWM setup. It is not infinitely adjustable. The manufacturer offers 160°, 180°, and 195° sensors that are attached to the radiator tank next to the outlet hose neck. My current thermostat is a 160° EMP/Stewart and I just switched last week from a 180° EMP/Stewart. Haven't noticed much of a change in the situation, it just takes a couple of minutes more to get to that 195° level where the fans kick in and don't stop.
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The shot above shows the engine side of the custom aluminum shroud which measures 23" wide and 16" high, same as the radiator core. The two fans are 12" and the fan assembly is out of a Ford Contour SVT. Supposedly with zero static pressure, they can pull around 3500CFM total. That means maybe 3000 CFM behind a radiator and AC condenser. There's no official rating, that's a guesstimate made by numerous people who have used these fans on other rides compared to supposed known CFM dual 12" fans.
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This shot shows the radiator side of the shroud. I have a dozen BeCool rubber pass thru flaps mounted so that at highway speeds, I can get more airflow through the system. At slow speeds the draw created by the fans keeps the flaps tight against the shroud so its not pulling engine heated air in. The shroud is sealed around the perimeter with a dense cell foam (I used a corvette kit for that).
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Between the big block and the radiator, there's not much space when you run a serpentine belt system. I don't think this affects the heat but I'm showing the clearance to point out that there isn't much room for conventional fans and factory shrouds. Likewise, I choose this fan setup because others have used them on similar big blocks with good results. So if I switch fans, I have to be very concerned about depth.
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This shot shows the shroud without the fans in place. Theres about 15/16" of air space between the inside of the shroud and the radiator core. The way its set up now, I can lift the entire shroud/fan assembly out with minimal wiggling.
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This overhead shot shows the entire layout of the engine bay and the radiator closeout panel that supposedly helps the road air on a path through the condenser and radiator.
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Not the best shot to show the closeout panel removed, but you can see the plumbing for the condenser before the condenser was actually fitted in there. Its almost the same size as the radiator core, maybe 3/4" thick? One option is a "pusher" fan mounted in front of the condenser switched on at 195° to increase airflow.
The way the PWM is setup, I can't switch the fans off at 200° while riding on the highway to see if airflow alone would do the job. In theory, a belt driven clutch fan would not be normally engaged at highway speeds and you would rely on a 45-65 mph breeze to flow the radiator properly. It sounds like changing the coolant mix would have little to no effect so that probably points to more airflow via different or an additional 3rd pusher fan. But keep the comments coming, its interesting to see all your thoughts.-Mike
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p.s. here's my beast.
I think Rand's issue is that you come off like a pompous know-it-all and it tends to annoy people. I know you are aware of this, having discussed it openly in the past, but current trends seem to indicate you aren't doing much to address it, FWIW. Also, suggesting people PM you for "secret squirrel handshake" type advice goes against the premise of a discussion forum where these sorts of things are, as the name would imply, discussed in the open.It’s not the cooling system.. lol
And Rand ya I do know and made lotsa money doing it over the decades. Lol
Overkill sorry to let you know reading dozens of threads both past and present I am not the only member that suggested to go PM. I also clearly said that Mike is more then ok with posting what we talk about.I think Rand's issue is that you come off like a pompous know-it-all and it tends to annoy people. I know you are aware of this, having discussed it openly in the past, but current trends seem to indicate you aren't doing much to address it, FWIW. Also, suggesting people PM you for "secret squirrel handshake" type advice goes against the premise of a discussion forum where these sorts of things are, as the name would imply, discussed in the open.
Other possibilities are that the timing is insanely retarded or it is running crazy lean and producing a wicked amount of excess heat, but both those things should be noticeable. His observations point to a lack of ability to shed heat, which comes back to the cooling system. Properly setup, that configuration should keep it right around thermostat temp without the fans going down the road, clearly, that's not happening.
A few possibilities:
- His serpentine setup is seriously underdriving the water pump (relatively unlikely)
- Factory shrouding/ducting that was in place to direct air through the rad is missing
- The rad isn't big enough (seems unlikely, that's a large rad)
- The condenser is blocking adequate airflow
If you have other ideas, bring them forward, as I said, that's the whole point of the board. There are plenty of extremely intelligent people on here, and nobody is casting shade on your expertise/experience. The idea is to share information not hoard it, that way everybody benefits.
Coolant is illegal on many tracks today. Too slippery. Instead they run water and water wetter.When I used to race, build engines, and hot rods, I would use Moroso water restrictors with a 40/60 (40% Green coolant 60% Distilled water). My dad showed me this trick. He used to race as well.