How long is this 'end' going to drag on for?

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: mstrjon32

I'm so tired of this "screw GM" I'll just buy an import attitude. That's the kind of shameful laziness and self-centered attitude that is the undoing of America.



True...we should hynotize all consumers to be GM robot customers. In fact we should all just send whatever money GM doesn't steal to them directly because Rick Wagoner has earned his $20MM a year and corporate jet. Your shameful. Besides I like all 3 of my Toyota products. I'm still waiting for the UAW to come help me with my job.

 

[mstrjon32]

Originally Posted By: PT1
True...we should hynotize all consumers to be GM robot customers.

Lord knows Toyota managed to hypnotize a generation of consumers who now won't even consider an American product.

 

[firemachine69]

Originally Posted By: mstrjon32
Originally Posted By: PT1
True...we should hynotize all consumers to be GM robot customers.

Lord knows Toyota managed to hypnotize a generation of consumers who now won't even consider an American product.



I was there. I read all the CR junk. Even Lemonaid said my 'yota was a good buy.


Never again.


Maybe a Malibu next time.

 

[cousincletus]

Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: mstrjon32

I'm so tired of this "screw GM" I'll just buy an import attitude. That's the kind of shameful laziness and self-centered attitude that is the undoing of America.



True...we should hynotize all consumers to be GM robot customers. In fact we should all just send whatever money GM doesn't steal to them directly because Rick Wagoner has earned his $20MM a year and corporate jet. Your shameful. Besides I like all 3 of my Toyota products. I'm still waiting for the UAW to come help me with my job.

Maybe when you don't have a decent paying job because the foreigners sucked the life out of this country you will see the light. BTW I have 3 GM products and a Toyota or Nissan, etc. couldn't possibly be better because I have had zero problems. CR is definitely a biased rag, as even during the time of biodegradable Japanese cars, they were still rated better. These old toyota (22R) engines that were supposed to be all that are well known for blowing head gaskets. Just imagine if GM made an engine like that.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: mstrjon32
Lord knows Toyota managed to hypnotize a generation of consumers who now won't even consider an American product.


I wish they'd snap out of their hypnotic state when they're behind the wheel.

 

[hal]

you know, GM's cars are a lot better than they used to be, on par and comparable to most any japanese car. they just have a bad reputation because of some horrible models they had, especially in the 80s and early 90s. it's not GM that's destroying GM, it's the unions.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: hal
you know, GM's cars are a lot better than they used to be, on par and comparable to most any japanese car. they just have a bad reputation because of some horrible models they had, especially in the 80s and early 90s. it's not GM that's destroying GM, it's the unions.


If you look at nearly any document on marketing and getting business you will quickly find that the most difficult customer to get is the one you lost.

GM lost a lot of customers in the past 30 years. Those are the most difficult to gain back.

Many of those folks had children, and kids are more likely to buy what mom and dad had than to go out on their own.

Those folks may be more easily won to GM or to Ford than their parents who feel there were driven away or let down, and I think that is where GM and Ford should target new customers.

Those folks haven't had the bad experience yet, so they are more easily won to GM or Ford compared to parents who may have had the bad experiences.

So, sadly, to some extent, it doesn't matter that the cars are getting better if the bad taste is still in the mouths of customers who switched.

And as much as many would like to blame the customer, it's not really the customer's fault. It's human nature, and GM like every other automaker has to sell cars with that in mind.

Customers not looking back at GM after leaving them for another brand is the natural consequence of disappointing that customer in the first place.

 

[Drew2000]

-If- GM goes under, the tidal wave of bankruptcies through the OEM supply chain could very well tank this country for years. Many folks don't realize that most global car companies don't manufacture many of their parts anymore, just assemble vehicles.

Alot of OEM suppliers manufacture parts for Toyota, Honda, Ford, GM etc. If the OEM supply chain crashes, there will be big trouble for all the remaining auto companies. One of the reasons Toyota is supporting the govt. help for GM.

 

[Steve S]

I owned a 74 Chev P/U brand new the trans was reaired 2X under warranty. Went out after warranty and I fixed it my self and it never went out again Then my Dad and I each bought a 1987 olds Delta 88 and a Cierra Both ultimate P.O.S. I will most likley never buy a G.M product again. All manufactures to be honest don't leave any money on the table as far as quality goes " most cars are tin cans and way overpriced for what you get"

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: hal
you know, GM's cars are a lot better than they used to be, on par and comparable to most any japanese car. they just have a bad reputation because of some horrible models they had, especially in the 80s and early 90s. it's not GM that's destroying GM, it's the unions.
It is more to blame on the CEO and upper management as their salary is the few extra dollars per car that equals the missing quality with no input in any way to the production of the product. I have been on this rant for the last 20 years Management is way over paid for what they produce and what they add to the sustainability of the company.

 

[d00df00d]

It's no one factor.

It started with the Big Three's complacency and the UAW's greed, both of which are understandable. When times were good, the Big Three jacked up salaries and slacked off on quality, and threw concessions at the UAW whenever it asked for a bigger piece of the pie.

It continued because the management couldn't dig its way out of that hole. Whether you choose to continue to blame them for that is up to you. In my opinion, it's primarily the UAW's fault for not giving back some of the frankly ridiculous benefits they got. Management saw this coming a long time ago, and I think the current crop of cars from at least Ford and GM shows that they did a good job on whatever was in their control. If they can now pry the UAW's hands from their necks, they will have saved their companies and deserve good pay for it.

 

[Bamaro]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
Originally Posted By: hal
you know, GM's cars are a lot better than they used to be, on par and comparable to most any japanese car. they just have a bad reputation because of some horrible models they had, especially in the 80s and early 90s. it's not GM that's destroying GM, it's the unions.
It is more to blame on the CEO and upper management as their salary is the few extra dollars per car that equals the missing quality with no input in any way to the production of the product. I have been on this rant for the last 20 years Management is way over paid for what they produce and what they add to the sustainability of the company.

I dont think the GM's upper management salaries are significantly different from the norm, the norm being outrageous. The union contract on the other hand is where the competitive disadvantage comes from

 

[javacontour]

But they are far different from their Japanese counterparts. I recall reading some time ago that the entire Toyota upper management team made less than the top guy at GM.

So the top guy at Toyota and his team since salaries are not listed by individual but for the whole team, was less than GM's top guy alone.

So there is something wrong with executive compensation. Just look at AIG for another example of what's wrong.

Now it appears the folks here are taking $1/year for now, but what other benefits and compensation do they get?

 

[lovcom]

Originally Posted By: cousincletus
Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: mstrjon32

I'm so tired of this "screw GM" I'll just buy an import attitude. That's the kind of shameful laziness and self-centered attitude that is the undoing of America.



True...we should hynotize all consumers to be GM robot customers. In fact we should all just send whatever money GM doesn't steal to them directly because Rick Wagoner has earned his $20MM a year and corporate jet. Your shameful. Besides I like all 3 of my Toyota products. I'm still waiting for the UAW to come help me with my job.

Maybe when you don't have a decent paying job because the foreigners sucked the life out of this country you will see the light. BTW I have 3 GM products and a Toyota or Nissan, etc. couldn't possibly be better because I have had zero problems. CR is definitely a biased rag, as even during the time of biodegradable Japanese cars, they were still rated better. These old toyota (22R) engines that were supposed to be all that are well known for blowing head gaskets. Just imagine if GM made an engine like that.


Dillusion is a very sad thing.

I will pray for you, as I drive my Toyota Yaris past closed up GM dealerships.

It is sad that you conveniently don't mention the shoddy engineering of GM, the shoody manufacturing processes, and the inept management, and the lack of quality cars under $20,000.

It is sad that you ignore the real American Traitors as being GM management and instead accuse American Japanese car buyers as "traitors".

 

[mstrjon32]

Originally Posted By: lovcom
It is sad that you conveniently don't mention the shoddy engineering of GM, the shoody manufacturing processes, and the inept management, and the lack of quality cars under $20,000.


You truly have been brainwashed by the media.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: mstrjon32
Originally Posted By: lovcom
It is sad that you conveniently don't mention the shoddy engineering of GM, the shoody manufacturing processes, and the inept management, and the lack of quality cars under $20,000.


You truly have been brainwashed by the media.


Why do you come here to grind your axe? Most import drivers are fed-up ex-big 3 customers. Don't you get that?

 

[GMBoy]

This conversation makes it's way into a lot of threads here, it's getting old. I see everyone's point to some degree so I won't comment or continue. I would like to mention one thing that does bug me - and I'm NOT making excuses for the automakers....BUT:

Why is everyone raging about the GM/Chry buyout (which is really a loan) of 13B (may end up more) when the banks get 700B?? The banks don't have to say what they do with it, continue to pay bonuses and don't have to produce a "plan" to recover!! GM has to play the dog and pony show and produce all kinds of plans and lose the top CEO and such. Not fair to me. Should a plan be made available -absolutely, should Wagoner been let go - YES but why the different rules for GM and for the Banks?? Oh and yeah, I p-o'd that Ricky walks away with 20million - that is wrong.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
This conversation makes it's way into a lot of threads here, it's getting old. I see everyone's point to some degree so I won't comment or continue. I would like to mention one thing that does bug me - and I'm NOT making excuses for the automakers....BUT:

Why is everyone raging about the GM/Chry buyout (which is really a loan) of 13B (may end up more) when the banks get 700B?? The banks don't have to say what they do with it, continue to pay bonuses and don't have to produce a "plan" to recover!! GM has to play the dog and pony show and produce all kinds of plans and lose the top CEO and such. Not fair to me. Should a plan be made available -absolutely, should Wagoner been let go - YES but why the different rules for GM and for the Banks?? Oh and yeah, I p-o'd that Ricky walks away with 20million - that is wrong.


The banks control the flow of money to the entire system and must be fixed. Where GM is just an overblown sick company out of control. They lose $20 billion a year..which makes them a questionable entity. Plus they are in a business that requires huge capital investment versus the banks which do not. Then add the UAW and it's a problem that is untenable. At the banks they can just can everybody and start over in a week.

 

[PT1]

BTW, GM will need $100 Billion to fix...

 

[Cutehumor]

The recession is "suppose" to end in 2010. Will government motors (GM) be around by then?