How long a "break in period" for new oil.

[Captain_Klink]

It seems that brand new oil right out of the bottle has some very strong detergents, and it is necessary to wear down the oil a bit, before it gets milder and works better. how long does it take to "break in" the oil, so the detergents wear out, and the oil will therefore be more slippery and lubricate better.

I wonder if it is a good idea to use an oil with a weak additive pack- i hear that NAPA synthetic is like Valvoline, but weaker, so therefor it should be better - no?

Or whether it is a good idea to pour some of the old used oil back into the crank case. For instance put back one quart of old oil, and 3 quarts of new oil. What about just not replacing the filter, since the old filter will have some old oil in, that would be good to dilute out the too strong detergent packages.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Captain_Klink
it is necessary to wear down the oil a bit, before it gets milder and works better.

What is the source of this (mis)information? Never heard of such a thing.

 

[Smokescreen]

I look at the other way, the anti-wear additives are strongest when new and diminish as the oil wears, same with the detergents, so I would want the best features of the oil in the case for the majority of time and then get weaker as it gets closer to time to change it out.

BTW, There is no one that could convince me that pouring used oil back into the crankcase is a good idea. Oil is not that expensive or rare to warrant that in my books.

 

[tomcat27]

That's a new one. I have never heard that any of the additives used for detergency would affect the lubricity of the oil. of course, I am no chemist.

 

[Familyguy]

No disrespect intended, but whoever told the OP about this "problem" with new oil was misinformed or pulling his leg. No such thing.

Happy motoring.

 

[gathermewool]

From what I've read, oil takes a bit to establish its own antiwear layer, and works in conjunction with, not against, the detergent adds.

 

[JCC]

Years and years ago Ford warned gas OHC engine owners not to use diesel "CD" oils because the detergent additives competed with the anti-wear additives for reacting on their highly loaded 2 valve cam lobes. Modern 4 valve OHC stock engines don't have high cam loading and additive chemistry is more advanced so this isn't a trade-off.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
From what I've read, oil takes a bit to establish its own antiwear layer,


That's my loose understanding of it. A seating process, if you will. It's speculated that this is what will cause a spike in metals at some point early in the sump's life. The displacement of existing film layers with the formation of new ones.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
I look at the other way, the anti-wear additives are strongest when new and diminish as the oil wears, same with the detergents, so I would want the best features of the oil in the case for the majority of time and then get weaker as it gets closer to time to change it out.

BTW, There is no one that could convince me that pouring used oil back into the crankcase is a good idea. Oil is not that expensive or rare to warrant that in my books.


Bingo! Fresh oil, fresh filter for me when I change my oil. I want as much of the old junk out as I can get. Leaving up to a qt of dirty oil trapped in a used filter isn't my cup of tea either. It's like taking a shower and putting your dirty clothes and underware back on again. JMO

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
The displacement of existing film layers with the formation of new ones.

But if that's the case, then it's unavoidable, even if you pour some old oil into the engine instead of brand new one.

 

[Gary Allan]

I'm not following you. This would be something like an ion exchange in a softener (no-not exactly - nitpicker preempt). The newer, more potent additives kicking off older and more "spent" film formations.

Your point of "old oil" was used as a speculative validation (oxymoron) point. That is, "does used oil result in less wear" since the spike in metals typically occurred somewhere under 2000 miles. The suggestion was that entering in at this stage would result in lower wear. Ford wrote the "opinion forming" article. It was to bolster the sensibility of going to the full recommended drain interval. It gave you the false impression that you could be wearing your engine prematurely by changing oil too often.

 

[mechtech2]

There have been several posts in BItog about used oil lubricating better. Having engine hours on it made it's lubricating properties better.

 

[shpankey]

Originally Posted By: Familyguy
No disrespect intended, but whoever told the OP about this "problem" with new oil was misinformed or pulling his leg. No such thing.

Happy motoring.

Uhm... I'm not so sure. Look here and look at the results, everytime a change of oil is put in, wear numbers go up, then back down. He's sampling every 1k miles. And the premium best wear numbers happen between 6k and 10k. This on Mobil 1. He also does an AMSOIL test for comparison and then retested M1.

 

[Captain_Klink]

so it seems that 3-5000 miles is the break in period for oil, at which point the oil starts to really perform well, much better than it performed when brand new.

 

[shpankey]

Yeah, from the looks of it. That test is pretty telling, even BITOG'ers aren't using oil as long as they should.

The guy gave up on M1 after 18k, but could of kept going. That's scary to me, but to see the 6 to 10k results are the most impressive for sure, the oil just kicks butt there and all his tests give pretty sound evidence towards an oil "breaking in" <-- for the lack of a better term. Believe me, I was shocked with that guys test as well.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Captain_Klink
so it seems that 3-5000 miles is the break in period for oil, at which point the oil starts to really perform well, much better than it performed when brand new.

Ooh, ah, I see a business opportunity here. Buy used oil from JiffyLube, put it in bottles, and sell it as oil that performs "much better than it performed when brand new."

 

[crinkles]

Originally Posted By: shpankey
Originally Posted By: Familyguy
No disrespect intended, but whoever told the OP about this "problem" with new oil was misinformed or pulling his leg. No such thing.

Happy motoring.

Uhm... I'm not so sure. Look here and look at the results, everytime a change of oil is put in, wear numbers go up, then back down. He's sampling every 1k miles. And the premium best wear numbers happen between 6k and 10k. This on Mobil 1. He also does an AMSOIL test for comparison and then retested M1.



i get the feeling there is some bad science in there somewhere which would explain it all away.

in any case the wear numbers are so small even at the worst it is only 10% of the condemnation limit. so will you have 8 or 10%? it does not matter in the real world.

 

[shpankey]

I agree.. it doesn't. But it does show there is something to this claim.

Again, this is not for me. 6k's as far as I'm willing to go right now, but that's b/c I have a car that has an issue with shearing oil and with fuel dilution. DI turbo is brutal on oil it seems.

 

[sangyup81]

Originally Posted By: shpankey
The guy gave up on M1 after 18k, but could of kept going.


Didn't he constantly have to top off the oil?

 

[Captain_Klink]

could it be that the oil has had a chance to "shear down" a bit. the oil must have thinned out, by 5000 miles, and does this account for the better wear numbers? probably this means that we should all be mixing our oil and adding in 25-50% 5w20 to achieve the same effect.