How hot is TOO hot?

[canadiantim]

I've been running 5w20 penzoil Plat or Mobil 1 while towing with our 2004 (newer style) f-150 5.4 3 valve. Towing about 6500lb travel trailer. Oil temps scare me though. Going up grades, maybe 5 minutes running at 3800-4200rpm, 45-50mph it has gotten as high at 248F. I have stopped and let it cool when this happens. These were 70-75 degree days.

Normal "easy" running with the trailer, oil is about 220. Daily driving is 200. Engine coolant temp stays 195 regardless of use or oil temp. Trans stays very happy 155-165 all the time as well. I use the EDGE programmer on tow mode and for the temp gauges. Truck has towing package - essentially gearing, bigger rad, bigger trans cooler, bigger alternator. 60k miles on truck. No engine oil cooler though.

I don't like it as we'll end up doing some mountain runs sometime. I'm considering a sandwich adapter and external oil cooler with thermostat controlled fan.

Should I be concerned with the oil getting this hot???

Thanks

 

[toneydoc]

As long as you use high quality oil and it does not burn off at temp of 250F or less, it will not be a problem. Your top end temp is much higher than that temp. No need to worry in my opinion.

 

[wiswind]

I'm not up on the F150, but on the old Windstar, the towing package included a engine oil cooler.
This was a "sandwich" type cooler that was between the block and the oil filter.
This used the coolant to make the heat exchange.....so there were coolant lines going to it.

The windstar with the towing package had an "auxillary" transmission cooler that was in front of the radiator, inline with the "in radiator" stock cooler......and a power steering fluid cooler in front of the radiator.

I would expect that they would include a engine oil cooler on the F150 tow package, but, again, I am not up on that.

 

[JGW]

I doubt it's the oil, you're just running it hard. My engine gets to hot( according to the WATER temp) quite fast when I'm hauling 11k+ lbs up a long steep hill at 3000-3500rpm with the GMC. That's with 20w-40 and an oil cooler. I think 248 degrees is a little hot for the oil...

 

[Rand]

I wouldnt worry about oil temps below 300F as long as its for short periods and not for 8 hours in a row etc.

(note you said PP and M1 I'm assuming M1 syn.)

 

[volk06]

Originally Posted By: Rand
I wouldnt worry about oil temps below 300F as long as its for short periods and not for 8 hours in a row etc.

(note you said PP and M1 I'm assuming M1 syn.)


M1 only comes as a full syn

 

[Propflux01]

Your using a good synthetic who's flashpoint is well higher than the temps your seeing. I wouldn't worry much and just enjoy the drive.

 

[canadiantim]

Thanks for the feedback. I just got to thinking I've had a couple UOA done and they came back just fine so suspect all is ok, especially with me paying attention.

I suppose deep down I'm really just looking for an excuse to modify something. Maybe I should put one of my MotorGuard Bypass filters on and the extra quart and filtration would make me feel better...

I do like the oil cooler that mounts between the filter and block tied into the cooling system as someone mentioned. Maybe I'll see if the dealer offers something that was used on a Super Duty model that has minimal failure points.

 

[Zaedock]

Stepping up to a 30wt wouldn't be a problem and could (arguably) offer better protection in some areas of your engine at that oil temp. That could add piece of mind. Personally, I think you're using fine oils that can take the heat (and then some) at the recommended viscosity. I think adding an oil cooler would be a plus. Summit and Jegs have them. You might even look into getting a factory unit.

I towed my Jeep(4500lbs)/trailer(1500+lbs lbs)/stuff(500lbs - spare T-case, welder, steel, sawszall, etc) to Moab from Mass with my 2003 5.4L FX4 running a mix of 5 qts 5W20 NAPA conventional and 1 qt Q-Torquepower 5W30. She did fine the entire trip. With the tow package, I have a transmission and oil cooler.

 

[A_Harman]

With a good synthetic, you can run up to 300F oil temperature, but oil life will be degraded. Adding an oil cooler to control oil temperature to ~250F would be good insurance, but there is no need to go to 5w30.

 

[Ken2]

I'd use the oil cooler with a thermostatic bypass valve. Perma-Cool makes one. I'd also use full syn 5w30 when towing. When hot the actual oil viscosity at that temperature will probably be closer to what the engine designer had in mind for the engine.

 

[bubbatime]

There is absolutely no downside to running a 0w30/5w30 synthetic in your situation. Your oil is taking a beating.

 

[Jim Allen]

I presume you are using a programmer or Scangauge to read oil temps using the factory sensor via the OBD2 port?

Well, I have a 2005 F150 and I have yet to see oil temps over 212F. I've been monitoring oil temps in all conditions since '08 on my truck and have towed a LOT more than 6,500 pounds! But... I have never used it to tow up hills either, so my experience isn't useful to this discussion. Plus my truck has 4.10 gears, which lessens the load on all components. I now have a bypass filter system installed and I can tell it's lowered my oil temps a bit whether I need it or not.

That said, I don't think yours are terminal temps or anywhere close to it. Mineral oil or synthetic. They are short term temps and you are using oils that are top notch and have the ability to handle those temps easily. If you were on the road all the time and subjecting the truck to this on a regular basis (more than 50% of the miles), a bump up to a 5W30 might be in order, but being short term loads (I assume?) the heavier oil just increases inefficiency for the majority of time you are unloaded. Remember that Ford did a LOT of testing on 5W20 before certifying the 3V for it. Also, you haven't see rashes of failures on the milliosn of engines out there due to lubricants either (Don't we wish the same were true of cam phssers and Motorcraft spark plugs... sigh).

I'll bet your unloaded oil temps are a lot lower. On a 70F day, mine runs about 180-190F after a full warmup here in the flatlands of Ohio. At that temp, 5W20 oil is running in 30 grade anyway. The 10W30 HDEO oil I have been running lately (just so I can use one oil for my farm fleet, not because I think it's "better" than 5W20) is running in the 40 grade area at that temp... inefficiency and likely costing me a little MPG.

I think if everyone had oil temp gauges, we would all learn a lot and hershey-squirt less. Hot is normal.

 

[Jeff_in_VABch]

You are cooking all the gaskets and soft parts with those temperatures. You would be shocked to see how low the idle oil pressure is at that temp too. Put it in neutral when over the hill and see what it is.

All these people thinking that high temps are no big deal with the latest miracle synthetic oil just dont do the heavy towing or understand how hot 250F oil is.

Get yourself a nice pancake adapter and high end oil cooler and fit it with SS braided lines and correct fittings. That will be a nice project and your engine will thank you.

 

[84zmyfavorite]

Jim Allen, what do you mean "5w-20 is running in 30 grade anyway" and "10w-30 HDEO is running in the 40 grade at that temp..." Im just wondering what you mean by that. Im not trying to be snide or smart A$$, I just dont know what you mean.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
canadiantim - Just for reference purposes a typical High Speed Heavy Diesel engine as fitted to OTR trucks usually has a programmed shutdown at an oil temperature of 120C - 250F

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: 84zmyfavorite
Jim Allen, what do you mean "5w-20 is running in 30 grade anyway" and "10w-30 HDEO is running in the 40 grade at that temp..." Im just wondering what you mean by that. Im not trying to be snide or smart A$$, I just dont know what you mean.


No problem! The "30" is a grade, which is a range of actual viscosities in centistokes. The oil is rated for it's hot viscosity at a temperature of 100C or about 212F. Above that temp the oil gets thinner and below it gets thicker. If it's running significantly cooler than 212, the oil could be thick enough to be in the 40 grade range. If you know the 40C viscosity and the 100C and have an oil temp, you can actually plot the actual viscosity using a viscosity curve calculator, such as the one noted BITOG contributor Widman has on his site Calculator . Some oil might be at the "thin" end of the viscosity range it's in and others may be at the "thick" end, so they may not have far to go to jump out of grade due to temperature.

 

[Jim Allen]

Originally Posted By: Jeff_in_VABch
You are cooking all the gaskets and soft parts with those temperatures. You would be shocked to see how low the idle oil pressure is at that temp too. Put it in neutral when over the hill and see what it is.

All these people thinking that high temps are no big deal with the latest miracle synthetic oil just dont do the heavy towing or understand how hot 250F oil is.

Get yourself a nice pancake adapter and high end oil cooler and fit it with SS braided lines and correct fittings. That will be a nice project and your engine will thank you.


This approach is valid if he's running around 80 percent of the time at 220 to 250F. If his truck spends 5 percent of its time towing, and only 20 percent of that time at those temps, that's not very much time! Addressing a situation that's less than one percent of the total operating time is a silly waste of money. Plus, if he installs some monster cooler he may overcool the oil schlepping around in the Canadian chill and creating sludge.... unless he installs an oil thermostat which really adds to the cost. Again to address high oil temps that last only minutes. You spend 10-15 minutes going up a hill, the oil gets hot and then it cools down again. No harm, no foul. It's time at temp that kills oil and engine parts.

 

[mechtech2]

With those temps, I'd go to a 30.

And how in the world are the transmission temps so low??
They are at bare minimum .
Something is reading wrong. Those can't be the real pan temps under those total conditions.

 

[oggb]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
With those temps, I'd go to a 30.

And how in the world are the transmission temps so low??
They are at bare minimum .
Something is reading wrong. Those can't be the real pan temps under those total conditions.


Gonna have to agree with this one. Trans oughta be getting nice and hot as well. I mean yeah, it has a cooler - but I thought if you had the tow package you had an engine oil cooler as well.

Trans reading low? Oil reading high? Possibility.