How critical is Moly?

Olaf · Feb 10, 2006

Typical. First, I buy 34 gallons of Castrol Tection Extra, then I check the VOA's here. I see that the Catrol filling my basement doesn't contain any Moly. A few others, notably Delo 400 and Delvc 1300, do. How critical is this stuff (to a 1999 Cummins 24-valve)?

Should I dump the Castrol down the storm drain and start buying something else? Is there a way to add moly? Should I worry about using non-moly oil?

savvy · Feb 10, 2006

quote:

Should I worry about using non-moly oil?

no

burnout · Feb 10, 2006

Actually, find your nearest wildlife reserve. Pour it there.

All kidding aside, moly isn't necessary. Many oils dont have it.

If it matters THAT much, you can buy a bottle of VSOT (Valvoline synpower oil treatment) to spike your brew with.

BrianWC · Feb 10, 2006

Jeeesh, send ME that Tection Extra!!! I have 8 gallons myself! I'm really impressed with the specs (haven't done a UOA yet but it's in the mail). I'm using it for a car though. But there are tons of oils that don't have moly.

Ken2 · Feb 10, 2006

Moly is one possible ingredient in top quality oils. It is not necessary, and top quality oils can be made without moly. I use Schaeffer oil, which uses moly in just about every product, but other oils don't and show good analyses.

Ken

BrianWC · Feb 10, 2006

Aren't some forms of moly additive possibly BAD for wear?

Eh, either way, won't change my mind on Tection.

Ken2 · Feb 10, 2006

Solid granular moly, molybdenum disulfide, MoS2, is good in grease and gear oil, but not engine oil. Oil soluble, liquid moly, Molybdenum Trialkyldithiocarbamate, MoTDC, is excellent in engine oil and hydraulic oil, as well as gear oil and grease.

Ken

BrianWC · Feb 10, 2006

Gotcha. I knew there was a difference.

reyjay1 · Feb 10, 2006

As is Boron, papers have pointed to Boron is a great anti-wear agent. I often wonder about the balance of Moly and Boron in oils that have both, and how it is determined which one will occupy a surface, or if there are boundaries between the two and how those boundaries interact throughout a surface, or can they stack up one providing a base layer and the other a more friable layer on top that is continually swept away and replaced....

MolaKule · Feb 11, 2006

Molybdenum Trialkyldithiocarbamate or MoTDC and similar compounds are primarily used as friction reducers:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000089

While Borons are used as AW and EP additives and here is an Article on Boron Additives:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000177

Olaf · Feb 12, 2006

Thanks, everyone. I feel better. Interesting reading to come back to, also.

MolaKule · Feb 27, 2006

I have no idea what the ARP bolt lube has in it.

I know what ours has in it. It has a clear yellow appearance, has soluble moly DTC, and 3 Anti-wear additives with synthetic base oils plus a tackifier. Handles well in cold weather.

http://www.specialtyformulations.com/products.htm

quote:

Product Data Sheet
Assembly Lube
Synthetic Multiple Anti-Wear Assembly Lubricant

Assembly Lube is manufactured from a select blend of synthetic base stocks and additive components to ensure maximum flow at lower temperatures for ease of use and assembly without sacrificing anti-wear performance. This proprietary formulation uses a special surfactant that ensures surface wetting and deposition of prime additives to where they are needed, while providing just enough cling to keep the lube from dripping.

Assembly Lube is specifically recommended for coating all frictional surfaces during the assembly process of engines, manual transmission, and differentials. It should not be used in the assembly of automatic transmissions.

Instructions: For assembly of engines, manual transmissions, and differentials. Use sparingly to coat frictional surfaces such as bearings, cam lobes, tappet assemblies, journal and rod bearings, piston pins, cylinder walls, gears, chains, and anywhere else you need a super-slippery surface during startup. Can also be used for assembly of manual transmissions and differentials. After application, torque bolts to 50% of maximum torque, and then torque to the maximum specified torque.

Store above 40F. Apply at room temperature for best results.

NOTE: Do NOT apply to head bolts or any other temporary fasteners. Not for automatic transmission assembly. For AT assembly, use Specialty Formulations Automatic Transmission Assembly Lube.

Specifications (Typical)

Color Yellow

K. Viscosity@100C: 28 cSt

Specific Gravity: 0.905

Specialty Formulations is not responsible for misuse of this product. Wash hands after use. Keep out of reach of children.

Moly is very weakly magnetic. I.E., a normal magnet probably won't pick it up.

Jesse Lackman · Feb 27, 2006

The ARP bolt lube is a grey paste.

I was looking at the Molybdenum Disulfide And It’s Applications for Lubrication page;

quote:

Super Fine grade Particle size is from less than 0.05 to 8 microns (median 1.5).

Technical Grade particle size:1 to 100 microns (median 30.0). (l micron = l millionth of l meter).

100 microns is about.0041" so if "technical" is the grade used in the ARP paste and a .0041 particle rolled inbetween a piston and cylinder wall where the clearance is
Which moly is weakly magnetic, both?

MolaKule · Feb 28, 2006

You're assuming the moly particle won't shear, but it is one of the few compounded elements that will shear, talc and other metallic compounds will shear as well.

That's what makes friction modifiers, the ability to shear.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=56;t=000002

Jesse Lackman · Feb 28, 2006

So I can assume a .004 particle in between the piston and cylinder wall would shear instead of scratch the wall and/or the piston?

Jesse Lackman · Feb 28, 2006

quote:

Solid granular moly, molybdenum disulfide, MoS2, is good in grease and gear oil, but not engine oil. Oil soluble, liquid moly, Molybdenum Trialkyldithiocarbamate, MoTDC, is excellent in engine oil and hydraulic oil, as well as gear oil and grease.

Ken

I've heard of people not the gray moly in engine assembly becasue the hard moly particles in it will cause cylinder wall scratches there is no other explaination for. Has anyone here heard of this?

Thanks.

MolaKule · Feb 28, 2006

Moly particles in powder form, form sheets or platelets that slide over each other. Can't see ift causing scratches.

Our assembly lube uses soluble moly and 3 AW additives.

Jesse Lackman · Feb 28, 2006

Is the moly in the ARP bolt lube molybdenum disulfide?

That is the specific product some engine builders are concerned about scratching cylinder walls.

I think a hard particle on the cylinder wall would act different than on a ring and pinion or a connecting rod bolt or nut.

Are molybdenum disulfide particles magnetic?

bruce381 · Feb 28, 2006

"So I can assume a .004 particle in between the piston and cylinder wall would shear instead of scratch the wall and/or the piston?"

YES

But over use of moly as a heavy paste on cylinder wall WILL tend to clog the cross hatch from honing and MY lead to wear particles having NO crosshatch "scratch" to fall into and then be dropped to the pan and this may exsplain cylinder wall scratching just not enough oil wash getting to the wall to wash away hard wear debris.

bruce

wileyE · Feb 28, 2006

The arp bolt paste is a sealer and also acts as a locking compund, not meant to be a lube. At least the stuff I use is as described. They may have an assembly lube also? but you wouldn't use it on bolts.

How critical is Moly?

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