Hopefully my last thread: HEEELLLP!
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Whatever you do do not use a scotch brite pad or disc on anything while the insides are exposed, those throw off particles that will damage bearings and are too small to be removed by the oil filter.
I dropped some decent gasket chunks into my engine when I did my LIM gaskets.
I took a shop vac with a long skinny funnel on the end. The kind that you'd use for placing into ATF dipstick tubes and filling transmissions. The restriction at the end made amplified the suction and I was able to get the chunks out. Didn't see where it went, but I found the chunk in the vac's catch bin.
http://www.diymyhonda.com/accord/wp-content/uploads/HLIC/7b019504c9426e7e3b038d9ffa1163fc.jpg
This style funnel. HTH.
I took a shop vac with a long skinny funnel on the end. The kind that you'd use for placing into ATF dipstick tubes and filling transmissions. The restriction at the end made amplified the suction and I was able to get the chunks out. Didn't see where it went, but I found the chunk in the vac's catch bin.
http://www.diymyhonda.com/accord/wp-content/uploads/HLIC/7b019504c9426e7e3b038d9ffa1163fc.jpg
This style funnel. HTH.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Whatever you do do not use a scotch brite pad or disc on anything while the insides are exposed, those throw off particles that will damage bearings and are too small to be removed by the oil filter.
A video I watched showed the guy using a wire wheel on the block with all passages exposed. Service manual says that’s a big no so I’m just going to use a razor blade with tons of brake kleen to get everything off. The porting job is straight forward and will be done out of the vehicle. I placed paper towels over the head ports/lifter valley just to be safe this time around. Made sure to vacuum the junk out before pulling the lower too.
I’m going to do both heads just to have the piece of mind of equal thickness on both gaskets.
Whatever you do do not use a scotch brite pad or disc on anything while the insides are exposed, those throw off particles that will damage bearings and are too small to be removed by the oil filter.
A video I watched showed the guy using a wire wheel on the block with all passages exposed. Service manual says that’s a big no so I’m just going to use a razor blade with tons of brake kleen to get everything off. The porting job is straight forward and will be done out of the vehicle. I placed paper towels over the head ports/lifter valley just to be safe this time around. Made sure to vacuum the junk out before pulling the lower too.
I’m going to do both heads just to have the piece of mind of equal thickness on both gaskets.
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I cleaned up the lower best I could with a razor blade, feels smooth to the touch and looks better than it did when I had to pull the lower a couple years back due to those [censored] coolant elbows. I found a spot on the underside of the the LIM that threw me for a loop. Looks less like a casting imperfection and more like a welding job done to cover a hole. As far as I know I was the first to pull the lower as it had AC Delco gaskets on it. Also passing on the gasket matching due to time constraints.
This is the end product of using a razor and brake kleen/denatured alcohol. Used a green scotch brute to get the tougher areas.
I’m using Fel Pro Permatorque, don’t know if it’s the MLS or SD gasket. Would you all clean until there’s a mirror finish or is this good enough?
I’m using Fel Pro Permatorque, don’t know if it’s the MLS or SD gasket. Would you all clean until there’s a mirror finish or is this good enough?
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Update. I have since found a crack between I & E on the #1 cylinder. Guessing this may turn into a valve job. Also with my luck as soon as I yanked the head I hear about this snowacane that dumped 6 inches on us. Have paper towels with WD 40 sprayed covering the cylinders and valley. I haven’t the slightest clue how to calculate lift and clearance with shaved heads and to complicate things I have high lift rockers.
Speaking of, I found gouges in a couple pushrods where they have contacted the exterior casting of the intake port on, and one valve has a circular wear pattern on the tip. I emailed the company I bought them from and was told maximum milling safe for Rockers is .03-.04 which isn’t exactly precise enough for me to feel comfortable chancing it so I’m returning the fel-pro gaskets and getting Cometic MLS Gaskets. Also was told to check lifter preload in regards to the pushrod problem which surprised me given an ASE Master Tech (exes brother) said torque and forget. I believe he claimed the shims set preload which thinking about it makes no sense. The lifter spring is weaker than the valve spring so the lifter is forced to take up the slack. Gaskets are .45-.66 depending on how much the shop decides to mill.
And is it absolutely necessary to deck the block or am I fine with a decent straight edge and my craftsman feeler gauge? I’m seeing very few folks either on YT or in forums who milled the block.
So yeah, this is definately something I will learn from cause it’s gonna run a few hundred just for the milling and gaskets.
Speaking of, I found gouges in a couple pushrods where they have contacted the exterior casting of the intake port on, and one valve has a circular wear pattern on the tip. I emailed the company I bought them from and was told maximum milling safe for Rockers is .03-.04 which isn’t exactly precise enough for me to feel comfortable chancing it so I’m returning the fel-pro gaskets and getting Cometic MLS Gaskets. Also was told to check lifter preload in regards to the pushrod problem which surprised me given an ASE Master Tech (exes brother) said torque and forget. I believe he claimed the shims set preload which thinking about it makes no sense. The lifter spring is weaker than the valve spring so the lifter is forced to take up the slack. Gaskets are .45-.66 depending on how much the shop decides to mill.
And is it absolutely necessary to deck the block or am I fine with a decent straight edge and my craftsman feeler gauge? I’m seeing very few folks either on YT or in forums who milled the block.
So yeah, this is definately something I will learn from cause it’s gonna run a few hundred just for the milling and gaskets.
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If there is a crack between I&E you will need more than a valve job.
You need to talk to an engine builder/machinist, show them the damage, give them a parts list of whats new and what is old. This is getting too deep for a forum thread, the work you need/want to do is getting far beyond what can be related in a post.
You need to talk to an engine builder/machinist, show them the damage, give them a parts list of whats new and what is old. This is getting too deep for a forum thread, the work you need/want to do is getting far beyond what can be related in a post.
Make sure they use LS6#90 springs if you want to use the 1.90 rockers.
I’ve got the discontinued ER Rockers. 1.85 intake and 1.8 exhaust. Only issue aside from wear on pushrods is one of the intake rockers was drilled incorrectly. Looks to be a oiling hole drilled in the cup of the rocker to the top side. Intake lifters have larger holes, exhaust have smaller. One of my intake lifters is drilled with the same diameter hole as the 3 exhaust lifters, and it also has enough wear that the pushrods “pops” into place and contacts the flat area around the cup if you angle the pushrod. Hoping it can be repaired given they were made by welding in the cup and grinding a new one in another spot.
No offense but those don't sound like quality pieces at all. personally I would scrap them and go with the OE. I have three 3800 all with different cams but all use stock ratio rockers.
Lift is only one part of the equation duration is another part, for the minimal gain the higher ratio rockers bring and increased stress on the rest of the valve train they have little value.
Lift is only one part of the equation duration is another part, for the minimal gain the higher ratio rockers bring and increased stress on the rest of the valve train they have little value.
They’re actually the best on the market for HP. Don’t do much for torque but the 1.9s have clearance issues on Series III heads due to the larger intake ports. I’d like to save em if I can.
http://www.easyperformance.com/support/technology-reports/zzp-er-high-ratio-rocker-arm-testing/
http://www.easyperformance.com/support/technology-reports/zzp-er-high-ratio-rocker-arm-testing/
Anytime an engine is open you need to be concerned about rust outside even more so. Pour some oil in around the rings and wipe the cylinders with engine oil then cover the engine with cardboard then plastic, check the cardboard every few days or after it rains for moisture and change it if necessary.
Plastic alone has a habit of allowing water drops to form under it. These rockers are not sold anymore by ZZ only the 1.9 I have to wonder why and the fact that some abnormal wear has taken place already and the false drilling of holes would for me be a reason to look at them in another light, no matter its your engine do whatever you want.
Forget the HP and MAF numbers and look at the torque that's what counts in a street car of this size, they offer only 10lb more torque at higher rpm (for this engine) and no mention of torque at lower rpm's.
Given the fact they used a Gen II engine for testing how does the improved FI and aluminum intake improve the lower rpm numbers? Are these rockers actually dropping the numbers?
Just trying to point out things you need to investigate get the real low down on to be informed. I have been building engines a long time and can tell you with certainty that when you change single components that are a different spec than the OE there are usually negative consequences somewhere in the equation. That's all I have to say about that.
Plastic alone has a habit of allowing water drops to form under it. These rockers are not sold anymore by ZZ only the 1.9 I have to wonder why and the fact that some abnormal wear has taken place already and the false drilling of holes would for me be a reason to look at them in another light, no matter its your engine do whatever you want.
Forget the HP and MAF numbers and look at the torque that's what counts in a street car of this size, they offer only 10lb more torque at higher rpm (for this engine) and no mention of torque at lower rpm's.
Given the fact they used a Gen II engine for testing how does the improved FI and aluminum intake improve the lower rpm numbers? Are these rockers actually dropping the numbers?
Just trying to point out things you need to investigate get the real low down on to be informed. I have been building engines a long time and can tell you with certainty that when you change single components that are a different spec than the OE there are usually negative consequences somewhere in the equation. That's all I have to say about that.
I’ll take your advice on the cardboard. I’ve been using WD40 on paper towels but I can cut the cardboard to match the head and put Saran Wrap or something similar over it. Luckily I’ve got about a 1/2 qt of Mobil 1 which is better for moisture control then conventional.
ZZP just has quality control issues, they want pics of the rockers to see if they can help me on that front. Luckily I’ve got my stock 1.6 rockers which would probably be better to modify than to reweld the modified rockers I’ve got.
The reconditioned heads say they’re in stock but once you add them to the cart it’s says on back order. Depending on turnaround time I may just grab the cnc ported heads which are a value at $500 more.
ZZP just has quality control issues, they want pics of the rockers to see if they can help me on that front. Luckily I’ve got my stock 1.6 rockers which would probably be better to modify than to reweld the modified rockers I’ve got.
The reconditioned heads say they’re in stock but once you add them to the cart it’s says on back order. Depending on turnaround time I may just grab the cnc ported heads which are a value at $500 more.
Used a paper towel with wd40 to lightly wipe the cylinder walls then use a small a plastic tipped syringe to suck up motor oil and get it between piston and cylinder wall.
Couldn’t get the plastic to stick to anything so wrapped up a piece of cardboard with cling wrap, poked holes in it and used the old cylinder head bolts finger tightened a few turns to hold it in place.
Couldn’t get the plastic to stick to anything so wrapped up a piece of cardboard with cling wrap, poked holes in it and used the old cylinder head bolts finger tightened a few turns to hold it in place.
Machine shop said to grab a different set of heads just based on the fact that the crack runs down past the valve seats, and ZZP said the CNC head gains would be minimal without a camshaft upgrade. The reconditioned heads are actually in stock so I’m going with those. I’ll have the lower gasket matched and see how much it would run to match the heads to the lower.
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