Honda or Toyota
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Toyota's quality especially in North America has been on a decline for some time! That said they are still the industry leader in terms of quality and durability. On top of that the Grand son of the founder of Toyota has taken over and has been canning people left and right for not following the values that toyota was founded on so their is a major shake up going on to restore the thinking that lead Toyota to where it is today! The main problem was with N. American managment.
On the matter of transmission Honda does not build their own transmissions they are built by Aisin which Toyota owns and I have never seen them build anything better then what they build for Toyota! The reason being price point they build to what price point the customer is willing to pay. Since Toyota owns Aisin they can offer themselves a better price then they will anyone else. In fact in the last 10 years Honda has had some problems with some of their transimissions like in their mini-vans I do not know if Aisin built them or if Honda did it themselves but I would assume that they are still not building their own transmissions. Nissian used to use Aisin transmissions as well do not know if they still do.
Like wise you will find a lot of Denso parts on a Honda and guess who owns Denso that rights Toyota!
Toyota's are know for durability and appliance like regularity. They tend to be boring and are few of them are tuned for a performance enthusiast! Honda tends to be less refined on most models but has more feed back making them a favorite amoung drivers and performance enthusiasts. Most Honda engines are biased for HP and upper RPMS and most Toyota's are biased for Torque and broad power band.Many Honda's have been well documented over the years to consume oil and suffer piston slap as early as 100,000 miles. Toyota has only had one engine really known for oil consumption and it was used in the Carolla and is no longer used. You never hear about piston slap or oil consumption as a norm in Toyota's.
So basically you will either drive a Honda and like it or a Toyota and like. You almsot always fall into one catagory or the other. I prefer Toyota's but would drive some Honda's if not for Toyota being in the same market and at the same game. Honda is more supported ont he after market for performance parts in the USA.
Between the models you are lucking at I like the Camry better. Not only do I own a 2003 Camry but my Mom owns a 2007. We have owned Toyota's since 1979 and I have owned Dodge,Ford,GM and TOyota myself oh and my first car was a BMW orange no safety glass with manual transmission and I6.
On the matter of transmission Honda does not build their own transmissions they are built by Aisin which Toyota owns and I have never seen them build anything better then what they build for Toyota! The reason being price point they build to what price point the customer is willing to pay. Since Toyota owns Aisin they can offer themselves a better price then they will anyone else. In fact in the last 10 years Honda has had some problems with some of their transimissions like in their mini-vans I do not know if Aisin built them or if Honda did it themselves but I would assume that they are still not building their own transmissions. Nissian used to use Aisin transmissions as well do not know if they still do.
Like wise you will find a lot of Denso parts on a Honda and guess who owns Denso that rights Toyota!
Toyota's are know for durability and appliance like regularity. They tend to be boring and are few of them are tuned for a performance enthusiast! Honda tends to be less refined on most models but has more feed back making them a favorite amoung drivers and performance enthusiasts. Most Honda engines are biased for HP and upper RPMS and most Toyota's are biased for Torque and broad power band.Many Honda's have been well documented over the years to consume oil and suffer piston slap as early as 100,000 miles. Toyota has only had one engine really known for oil consumption and it was used in the Carolla and is no longer used. You never hear about piston slap or oil consumption as a norm in Toyota's.
So basically you will either drive a Honda and like it or a Toyota and like. You almsot always fall into one catagory or the other. I prefer Toyota's but would drive some Honda's if not for Toyota being in the same market and at the same game. Honda is more supported ont he after market for performance parts in the USA.
Between the models you are lucking at I like the Camry better. Not only do I own a 2003 Camry but my Mom owns a 2007. We have owned Toyota's since 1979 and I have owned Dodge,Ford,GM and TOyota myself oh and my first car was a BMW orange no safety glass with manual transmission and I6.
JB I don't think Honda's uses Toyota's Aisin trannies, do they? Honda and Toyota both make their own trannies, right? I remember just recently posting an interview w/ Honda's outgoing CEO stating he didn't know how a car company could eek out maximum efficiencies from their engines without also making their own trannies.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
It sounds like no one read my post...
The Honda is going go through rear pads like crazy, the wind noise is going to drive you nuts and the seats feel like a park bench. Why would you want that?
Our neighbour has an accord and aside from the Transmission issue with it he loves the car. It rides smooth and have been fine on brakes. (we do the work).
It sounds like no one read my post...
The Honda is going go through rear pads like crazy, the wind noise is going to drive you nuts and the seats feel like a park bench. Why would you want that?
Our neighbour has an accord and aside from the Transmission issue with it he loves the car. It rides smooth and have been fine on brakes. (we do the work).
Hermann
Site Donor 2023
When I had my '05 Accord the 4 cyl and 5 speed auto were the best parts of the car. The steering was vague and not real accurate and needed alignments several times in the 42K that I had it. The seats are hard but will eventually break in to your form. The car does have lots of road noise as Honda does not put much sound insulation in the lower trim levels, especially the LX models. I averaged 30 MPG with mine. I traded mine mostly because of the iffy steering charateristics. Love the way the doors closed, the slightest push closed them securely.
Honda builds their ATXs. Its internals are really a lot more like a manual trans than the Simpson planetary gearset layout used by almost everyone else. The Saturn S-Series AT is really is the only other ATX design like it that i'm aware of.
Originally Posted By: Hermann
When I had my '05 Accord the 4 cyl and 5 speed auto were the best parts of the car. The steering was vague and not real accurate and needed alignments several times in the 42K that I had it. The seats are hard but will eventually break in to your form. The car does have lots of road noise as Honda does not put much sound insulation in the lower trim levels, especially the LX models. I averaged 30 MPG with mine. I traded mine mostly because of the iffy steering charateristics. Love the way the doors closed, the slightest push closed them securely.
Honda doesn't put much sound insulation in anything. None of my three can be called "quiet."
When I had my '05 Accord the 4 cyl and 5 speed auto were the best parts of the car. The steering was vague and not real accurate and needed alignments several times in the 42K that I had it. The seats are hard but will eventually break in to your form. The car does have lots of road noise as Honda does not put much sound insulation in the lower trim levels, especially the LX models. I averaged 30 MPG with mine. I traded mine mostly because of the iffy steering charateristics. Love the way the doors closed, the slightest push closed them securely.
Honda doesn't put much sound insulation in anything. None of my three can be called "quiet."
Originally Posted By: The Critic
It sounds like no one read my post...
The Honda is going go through rear pads like crazy, the wind noise is going to drive you nuts and the seats feel like a park bench. Why would you want that?
I read it. I just don't agree with it. My Accord has 75k on original brakes, wind noise is not an issue and seats are firm but comfy for long drives. Plenty of leg room and seating positions. Engine purrs and has plenty of power. Mine steers great. I can take tight turns at a good speed and it has never needed an alignment. It has been a great car.
It sounds like no one read my post...
The Honda is going go through rear pads like crazy, the wind noise is going to drive you nuts and the seats feel like a park bench. Why would you want that?
I read it. I just don't agree with it. My Accord has 75k on original brakes, wind noise is not an issue and seats are firm but comfy for long drives. Plenty of leg room and seating positions. Engine purrs and has plenty of power. Mine steers great. I can take tight turns at a good speed and it has never needed an alignment. It has been a great car.
In my experience Hondas are noticeably more noisy on the freeway than the toyotas we have owned. I prefer a toyota myself, but the wife's old crv really took a beating without any major failures until she wrecked it at 200k.
Originally Posted By: Cardinal49
Originally Posted By: The Critic
It sounds like no one read my post...
The Honda is going go through rear pads like crazy, the wind noise is going to drive you nuts and the seats feel like a park bench. Why would you want that?
I read it. I just don't agree with it. My Accord has 75k on original brakes, wind noise is not an issue and seats are firm but comfy for long drives. Plenty of leg room and seating positions. Engine purrs and has plenty of power. Mine steers great. I can take tight turns at a good speed and it has never needed an alignment. It has been a great car.
The wind noise and the seat comfort may be subjective, but the rear brake wear is definitely an issue. The problem only exists on the2 008 and newer models.
Go to www.driveaccord.net and do a search on rear brake pad wear.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
It sounds like no one read my post...
The Honda is going go through rear pads like crazy, the wind noise is going to drive you nuts and the seats feel like a park bench. Why would you want that?
I read it. I just don't agree with it. My Accord has 75k on original brakes, wind noise is not an issue and seats are firm but comfy for long drives. Plenty of leg room and seating positions. Engine purrs and has plenty of power. Mine steers great. I can take tight turns at a good speed and it has never needed an alignment. It has been a great car.
The wind noise and the seat comfort may be subjective, but the rear brake wear is definitely an issue. The problem only exists on the2 008 and newer models.
Go to www.driveaccord.net and do a search on rear brake pad wear.
I have 86,000 on my 07 with OEM pads front and rear....
Here's more info on the rear brake pad wear:
http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?s=8dde7ca49434fc0d035611fb885f46c2&t=32373
http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35022&highlight=rear+brake+wear
http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?s=8dde7ca49434fc0d035611fb885f46c2&t=32373
http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35022&highlight=rear+brake+wear
I guess that they forgot about me and put on good pads on the line...
I changed out the pads on my CR-V at about 70-80k miles and was surprised to discover that the rear pads were just as shot as the fronts. That's as close to abnormal wear as I've seen on a Honda. My brother has an 04 Accord and in 340k miles he's only done one brake job. Obviously the highway miles help with that, though.
Toyota for the following reasons:
- No need for DOHC, VTEC, Si, Type S/R or superduper stickers to boost power.
- DIY friendly (parts and labors.)
- Less "ricer" than Honda.
- Cheaper insurance (how many Honda missing their "H", how many got keyed? - more than Toyota)
- Know how to make cheap I4 to powerful V8.
- More ethical than Honda (dropped Honda Accord hybrid, overstated odometer reading, unwilling to recall auto trans defect, undersized battery & brakes...)
- Honda has softer sheet metal, rust prone.
- Honda = difficult to negotiate price.
Had Honda, Acura, Toyota and Lexus but will never buy a Honda again.
- No need for DOHC, VTEC, Si, Type S/R or superduper stickers to boost power.
- DIY friendly (parts and labors.)
- Less "ricer" than Honda.
- Cheaper insurance (how many Honda missing their "H", how many got keyed? - more than Toyota)
- Know how to make cheap I4 to powerful V8.
- More ethical than Honda (dropped Honda Accord hybrid, overstated odometer reading, unwilling to recall auto trans defect, undersized battery & brakes...)
- Honda has softer sheet metal, rust prone.
- Honda = difficult to negotiate price.
Had Honda, Acura, Toyota and Lexus but will never buy a Honda again.
Originally Posted By: delta901
Toyota for the following reasons:
- No need for DOHC, VTEC, Si, Type S/R or superduper stickers to boost power.
- DIY friendly (parts and labors.)
- Less "ricer" than Honda.
- Cheaper insurance (how many Honda missing their "H", how many got keyed? - more than Toyota)
- Know how to make cheap I4 to powerful V8.
- More ethical than Honda (dropped Honda Accord hybrid, overstated odometer reading, unwilling to recall auto trans defect, undersized battery & brakes...)
- Honda has softer sheet metal, rust prone.
- Honda = difficult to negotiate price.
Had Honda, Acura, Toyota and Lexus but will never buy a Honda again.
Do you have any proof that the sheet metal Honda uses is thinner than the sheet metal that Toyota uses? I'm under the impression it's pretty much the same and I've seen plenty of rusted out Toyotas here as well. How are Toyota cars any more DIY friendly than a Honda car? My car is very simple to work on, doesn't have any of the DOHC, Si, VTEC or any other stickers on it and still produces a decent amount of power. It has a great engine, so I don't know why you imply that Honda doesn't know how to make a cheap I4 engine. Toyota does use "S" stickers on some of their cars.
Toyota for the following reasons:
- No need for DOHC, VTEC, Si, Type S/R or superduper stickers to boost power.
- DIY friendly (parts and labors.)
- Less "ricer" than Honda.
- Cheaper insurance (how many Honda missing their "H", how many got keyed? - more than Toyota)
- Know how to make cheap I4 to powerful V8.
- More ethical than Honda (dropped Honda Accord hybrid, overstated odometer reading, unwilling to recall auto trans defect, undersized battery & brakes...)
- Honda has softer sheet metal, rust prone.
- Honda = difficult to negotiate price.
Had Honda, Acura, Toyota and Lexus but will never buy a Honda again.
Do you have any proof that the sheet metal Honda uses is thinner than the sheet metal that Toyota uses? I'm under the impression it's pretty much the same and I've seen plenty of rusted out Toyotas here as well. How are Toyota cars any more DIY friendly than a Honda car? My car is very simple to work on, doesn't have any of the DOHC, Si, VTEC or any other stickers on it and still produces a decent amount of power. It has a great engine, so I don't know why you imply that Honda doesn't know how to make a cheap I4 engine. Toyota does use "S" stickers on some of their cars.
Originally Posted By: delta901
Toyota for the following reasons:
- No need for DOHC, VTEC, Si, Type S/R or superduper stickers to boost power.
- DIY friendly (parts and labors.)
- Less "ricer" than Honda.
- Cheaper insurance (how many Honda missing their "H", how many got keyed? - more than Toyota)
- Know how to make cheap I4 to powerful V8.
- More ethical than Honda (dropped Honda Accord hybrid, overstated odometer reading, unwilling to recall auto trans defect, undersized battery & brakes...)
- Honda has softer sheet metal, rust prone.
- Honda = difficult to negotiate price.
Had Honda, Acura, Toyota and Lexus but will never buy a Honda again.
Somebody got a grudge against Honda
Toyota for the following reasons:
- No need for DOHC, VTEC, Si, Type S/R or superduper stickers to boost power.
- DIY friendly (parts and labors.)
- Less "ricer" than Honda.
- Cheaper insurance (how many Honda missing their "H", how many got keyed? - more than Toyota)
- Know how to make cheap I4 to powerful V8.
- More ethical than Honda (dropped Honda Accord hybrid, overstated odometer reading, unwilling to recall auto trans defect, undersized battery & brakes...)
- Honda has softer sheet metal, rust prone.
- Honda = difficult to negotiate price.
Had Honda, Acura, Toyota and Lexus but will never buy a Honda again.
Somebody got a grudge against Honda
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Here's more info on the rear brake pad wear:
http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?s=8dde7ca49434fc0d035611fb885f46c2&t=32373
http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35022&highlight=rear+brake+wear
While your advise is probably done in good faith, you do not own an Accord and cannot offer personal experience, problems you listed are blown way out of proportion, are not as common as you may think from internet forums and certainly does not show that Hondas are worse than Toyotas.
The thing about forums is that a lot of people just go there to complain with every single little thing they notice. People that have no issues don't go posting their experiences, therefore it may seem that there are a lot of issues with a particular model.
Take Mazda 3 Forum as an example, if you go there and look at the Stock Issues section, you may think that Mazda 3's are falling apart everywhere, there are the rear brake pad wear issues, brake pad grinding, little squeaks, cracked oil filter housings, blown engines, oil burning and all sorts of other stuff. But Mazda 3 has been proven to be as reliable as Civics and Corollas, so while these forums can certainly be helpful, they should not be taken as a rule, besides go to any Toyota forum and you will have tons of posts with similar issues.
Oil Line Leaking Issues
And let's not forget the "Sudden Acceleration" fiasco.
Here's more info on the rear brake pad wear:
http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?s=8dde7ca49434fc0d035611fb885f46c2&t=32373
http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=35022&highlight=rear+brake+wear
While your advise is probably done in good faith, you do not own an Accord and cannot offer personal experience, problems you listed are blown way out of proportion, are not as common as you may think from internet forums and certainly does not show that Hondas are worse than Toyotas.
The thing about forums is that a lot of people just go there to complain with every single little thing they notice. People that have no issues don't go posting their experiences, therefore it may seem that there are a lot of issues with a particular model.
Take Mazda 3 Forum as an example, if you go there and look at the Stock Issues section, you may think that Mazda 3's are falling apart everywhere, there are the rear brake pad wear issues, brake pad grinding, little squeaks, cracked oil filter housings, blown engines, oil burning and all sorts of other stuff. But Mazda 3 has been proven to be as reliable as Civics and Corollas, so while these forums can certainly be helpful, they should not be taken as a rule, besides go to any Toyota forum and you will have tons of posts with similar issues.
Oil Line Leaking Issues
And let's not forget the "Sudden Acceleration" fiasco.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: delta901
Toyota for the following reasons:
- No need for DOHC, VTEC, Si, Type S/R or superduper stickers to boost power.
- DIY friendly (parts and labors.)
- Less "ricer" than Honda.
- Cheaper insurance (how many Honda missing their "H", how many got keyed? - more than Toyota)
- Know how to make cheap I4 to powerful V8.
- More ethical than Honda (dropped Honda Accord hybrid, overstated odometer reading, unwilling to recall auto trans defect, undersized battery & brakes...)
- Honda has softer sheet metal, rust prone.
- Honda = difficult to negotiate price.
Had Honda, Acura, Toyota and Lexus but will never buy a Honda again.
All nonsense.
Toyota for the following reasons:
- No need for DOHC, VTEC, Si, Type S/R or superduper stickers to boost power.
- DIY friendly (parts and labors.)
- Less "ricer" than Honda.
- Cheaper insurance (how many Honda missing their "H", how many got keyed? - more than Toyota)
- Know how to make cheap I4 to powerful V8.
- More ethical than Honda (dropped Honda Accord hybrid, overstated odometer reading, unwilling to recall auto trans defect, undersized battery & brakes...)
- Honda has softer sheet metal, rust prone.
- Honda = difficult to negotiate price.
Had Honda, Acura, Toyota and Lexus but will never buy a Honda again.
All nonsense.
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