So at 79K my maintenance minder indicated it is time for a transmission fluid change. I already had done 1X drain and fills at 23K and 54K, so I decided to just do a 1X now and another drain and fill at the next 2 oil changes rather than all in 1 day. When at the dealer buying fluid, I asked what they do when the maintenance minder goes off. I asked if they do the Honda recommended procedure of 3X drain and fills. He said, "Honda recommends 3X drain and fills but we only do 1X drain and fills. That's good enough." I was shocked. I'm sure they do this because of price, since it's $125 for 1x so I bet most consumers won't pay $375 for a trans fluid change. Still, it bugs me that most people won't do drain and fills regularly, and when the maintenance minder goes off, it's because the calculator has determined the trans fluid is toast. The engineers want it all changed out, but the dealers won't comply. For instance, my Accord holds 7.6 quarts and a change only changes 3 which is only about 40%. I wouldn't be surprised if this corner cutting contributes to some Honda transmission failures.
Honda Dealer only does 1X drain and fill
- Thread starter JMHC
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Yeah that is definitely frustrating. I wish manufacturers had more regulations on their dealerships in regards to service. A bad dealer makes the brand as a whole look bad, it would be in the companies best interest to ensure that the dealerships were doing things properly. Just my .02 cents.
Most of the dealerships in my area use a vacuum operated machines to do transmission fluid exchanges. We do as well at work. That might be what he is referring too. Also Honda autos seem to have lesser fluid capacity than comparable models from different manufacturers. But usually on Asian vehicles, we like to do drain and fills. GM/Ford etc get the machine. It just allows the transmission to draw in fresh fluid while emptying out the old fluid through another line ( very similar to cooler line flush method, except more refined ) .
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I've only done the 1x drain and fill on my 1997 Civic and have 190,000 miles with zero problems...
I was told years ago that Honda doesn't recommend a "flush" and the best thing is a drain and fill.
Even if you're transmission holds 7.6 quarts, all you will get by draining is around 3 quarts.
The main reason for the transmission issues on some of the Honda V6 products and even the I4 products is lack of maintenance....
30,000 miles transmission fluid drain and fills is what's best no matter what Honda product you own
The CRV had issues early on and still do IF the Dual Pump II fluid isn't changed around 15,000 miles.
I was told years ago that Honda doesn't recommend a "flush" and the best thing is a drain and fill.
Even if you're transmission holds 7.6 quarts, all you will get by draining is around 3 quarts.
The main reason for the transmission issues on some of the Honda V6 products and even the I4 products is lack of maintenance....
30,000 miles transmission fluid drain and fills is what's best no matter what Honda product you own
The CRV had issues early on and still do IF the Dual Pump II fluid isn't changed around 15,000 miles.
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The original transmission in my 89 Accord lasted 300,000 miles doing only 1X drain and fills every 30,000 miles with Mobil 1 ATF.
The transmission in my 1972 Catalina was at 212,000 miles when I sold it. It had gone over 70,000 miles on the same fluid when I got the car. Did three drain and fills and then just one every year after that.
I personally feel that all this flushing and multiple DAF's is excessive and wasteful.
Flame away!
The transmission in my 1972 Catalina was at 212,000 miles when I sold it. It had gone over 70,000 miles on the same fluid when I got the car. Did three drain and fills and then just one every year after that.
I personally feel that all this flushing and multiple DAF's is excessive and wasteful.
Flame away!
That might be OK, if it was $50 and they said "BTW, we only change 1/3 of the fluid as that all we feel is needed".
That's standard proceedure at most Honda dealerships. The alternative would be to do 1x drain/fill, drive the car five miles, do another... etc... which would add a lot to the cost and nobody would do it.
The price is kinda a ripoff, four quarts of Z1 should be 25 bucks and half an hour of labor, but that's par for the course at a dealership.
The major mode of failure on the 3 shaft 4 speed Honda's that gave them a bad rap, a clutch failure spewing debris clogging the "filter" screen and overheating the tranny, probably wouldn't have been helped by the ATF refresh. Honestly it was a design issue made worse by the engineers' overconfidence (non-replaceable filter).
The price is kinda a ripoff, four quarts of Z1 should be 25 bucks and half an hour of labor, but that's par for the course at a dealership.
The major mode of failure on the 3 shaft 4 speed Honda's that gave them a bad rap, a clutch failure spewing debris clogging the "filter" screen and overheating the tranny, probably wouldn't have been helped by the ATF refresh. Honestly it was a design issue made worse by the engineers' overconfidence (non-replaceable filter).
I think what I'm saying is most people won't do the 30K drain and fills and will rely on the maintenance minder on the new ones which on mine took until almost 80K. Then the correct procedure is to drain and fill, run it through the gears, and drain and fill again 2 more times (with another run through the gears). Honda says not to flush or use a machine of any kind. But as it was stated that gets expensive so no one will pay for it, so the dealer doesn't follow their own manufacturer procedure. A 1X drain and fill every 80K ain't gonna cut it but that's what most people are getting.
When we called about my g/fs TL at the time, the local dealer did 3x drain/fill and it was maybe $175-250 (can't remember exactly) with a coupon.
Bought a case and did it myself instead, though.
Bought a case and did it myself instead, though.
Originally Posted By: stockrex
I have never heard of honda saying do 3x drain and fill, all the say is flush is not needed.
My dealer told me about the 3x d/f. They will do either...1x d/f for $105 or the 3xd/f for $200. I had them do one when I got the car with 40k on it. Then 10k later I did another 2xd/fs. Now i'll do 3xd/f every 50,000 miles. I have had both dealers tell me never use a flush machine on a Honda trans.
I have never heard of honda saying do 3x drain and fill, all the say is flush is not needed.
My dealer told me about the 3x d/f. They will do either...1x d/f for $105 or the 3xd/f for $200. I had them do one when I got the car with 40k on it. Then 10k later I did another 2xd/fs. Now i'll do 3xd/f every 50,000 miles. I have had both dealers tell me never use a flush machine on a Honda trans.
A replacement transmission for a new-ish car is what, $1,500-2,000 with installation, if not more. That's not including the headaches and other expenses while the car is in the shop.
On a $20,000+ (30k+ in many cases) automobile, a $200-300 transmission service after the car has take you through 60-100k miles worth of comfortable driving is not that big of a maintenance service. Timing belt changes cost more then that. That is just the cost of PROPERLY maintaining our cars.
My 1998 Toyota Camry V6 has 230,000 miles on the original tranny. It has seen many back to back drain n fills over the 15 years of ownership. I've been using Mobil 1 ATF for as long as I can remember. The result is: transmission shifts extremely smooth and has been problem free for 15 years and 230k miles.
By doing the maintenance myself, I probably spent maybe $500-600 on transmission oil changes over the past 15 years. As a result, the car drives very well and has a higher resale value even with the high mileage.
On a $20,000+ (30k+ in many cases) automobile, a $200-300 transmission service after the car has take you through 60-100k miles worth of comfortable driving is not that big of a maintenance service. Timing belt changes cost more then that. That is just the cost of PROPERLY maintaining our cars.
My 1998 Toyota Camry V6 has 230,000 miles on the original tranny. It has seen many back to back drain n fills over the 15 years of ownership. I've been using Mobil 1 ATF for as long as I can remember. The result is: transmission shifts extremely smooth and has been problem free for 15 years and 230k miles.
By doing the maintenance myself, I probably spent maybe $500-600 on transmission oil changes over the past 15 years. As a result, the car drives very well and has a higher resale value even with the high mileage.
The 3x recommendation is their version of a flush. Otherwise it's 1x every 30k, which I do on both mine. 181k on the CR-V, running perfectly. Pilot only has 53k on it. Easy and quick.
To another poster above, the reason those transmissions broke were not maintenance or lack thereof. You could have changed that ATF every 3k and it wouldn't have made a difference. It was a design flaw and lack of fluid getting to where it was needed.
To another poster above, the reason those transmissions broke were not maintenance or lack thereof. You could have changed that ATF every 3k and it wouldn't have made a difference. It was a design flaw and lack of fluid getting to where it was needed.
Which dealer is this? Last time I checked the area dealers were charging $75 for a single d/f. I'm in Cleveland also and used to have a 99 Accord
An Acura dealer near me had a 2006'ish TL have a transmission failure while it was being unloaded off the truck and being delivered new to the dealer. Car had 6 miles. Meanwhile, the new Dodge Darts with the Hyundai powertech 6 speed automatics do not even have a transmission dipstick and are factory filled for life. No maintenance required.
You could get a complete fluid exchange at an independent shop using a quality tranny fluid (Valvoline Max Life, Mobil 1 ATF, Amsoil ATF, etc.). Do NOT flush it, just a complete fluid exchange where they hook up a machine to change the vast majority of the old tranny fluid out. I've done this twice with our Odyssey (using Valvoline Max Life) at our local Express Oil Change (which is a high quality place that has an excellent reputation for quality work, not one of those fly by night quick change oil places) and the van's tranny shifts better now at 104K than it did when we got it at 54K with the original Z1 in it. I plan to do this every 20K or so to do what I can to get the most life out of this tranny.
Originally Posted By: Doog
Originally Posted By: stockrex
I have never heard of honda saying do 3x drain and fill, all the say is flush is not needed.
My dealer told me about the 3x d/f. They will do either...1x d/f for $105 or the 3xd/f for $200. I had them do one when I got the car with 40k on it. Then 10k later I did another 2xd/fs. Now i'll do 3xd/f every 50,000 miles. I have had both dealers tell me never use a flush machine on a Honda trans.
That would mean 90K on the fluid.
Originally Posted By: stockrex
I have never heard of honda saying do 3x drain and fill, all the say is flush is not needed.
My dealer told me about the 3x d/f. They will do either...1x d/f for $105 or the 3xd/f for $200. I had them do one when I got the car with 40k on it. Then 10k later I did another 2xd/fs. Now i'll do 3xd/f every 50,000 miles. I have had both dealers tell me never use a flush machine on a Honda trans.
That would mean 90K on the fluid.
Originally Posted By: Artem
A replacement transmission for a new-ish car is what, $1,500-2,000 with installation, if not more. That's not including the headaches and other expenses while the car is in the shop.
You could at least double that or triple that would not begin to cover a German or luxury car.
Every Honda dealer around here charges $89 for 3 qt. drain and fill. Most owners (not BITOG users) think that they are fine. Maybe a good service manager would tell them that is really 1/3rd of the job.
A replacement transmission for a new-ish car is what, $1,500-2,000 with installation, if not more. That's not including the headaches and other expenses while the car is in the shop.
You could at least double that or triple that would not begin to cover a German or luxury car.
Every Honda dealer around here charges $89 for 3 qt. drain and fill. Most owners (not BITOG users) think that they are fine. Maybe a good service manager would tell them that is really 1/3rd of the job.
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This fits right in with my personal transmission philosophy: if starting from new, a 1X d & f done every 30k would be fine. If you are not sure of the maintenance history, do a complete fluid exchange and then drain & fills thereafter.
Originally Posted By: JMHC
I think what I'm saying is most people won't do the 30K drain and fills and will rely on the maintenance minder on the new ones which on mine took until almost 80K. Then the correct procedure is to drain and fill, run it through the gears, and drain and fill again 2 more times (with another run through the gears). Honda says not to flush or use a machine of any kind. But as it was stated that gets expensive so no one will pay for it, so the dealer doesn't follow their own manufacturer procedure. A 1X drain and fill every 80K ain't gonna cut it but that's what most people are getting.
The service manual makes no mention of doing 3x drain/refills for routine maintenance. The 3x drain/refill procedure is only suggested in the event of the fluid being topped off with the improper fluid.
The service intervals dictated by the Maintenance Minder take into account the amount of fluid being changed out. I've found that the code 3 usually appears by about 60k, then about every 30k subsequently.
Regardless, I still suggest doing a single drain/refill every 30k on the Hondas I service. However, the dealer is advocating for the correct procedure in this case.
I think what I'm saying is most people won't do the 30K drain and fills and will rely on the maintenance minder on the new ones which on mine took until almost 80K. Then the correct procedure is to drain and fill, run it through the gears, and drain and fill again 2 more times (with another run through the gears). Honda says not to flush or use a machine of any kind. But as it was stated that gets expensive so no one will pay for it, so the dealer doesn't follow their own manufacturer procedure. A 1X drain and fill every 80K ain't gonna cut it but that's what most people are getting.
The service manual makes no mention of doing 3x drain/refills for routine maintenance. The 3x drain/refill procedure is only suggested in the event of the fluid being topped off with the improper fluid.
The service intervals dictated by the Maintenance Minder take into account the amount of fluid being changed out. I've found that the code 3 usually appears by about 60k, then about every 30k subsequently.
Regardless, I still suggest doing a single drain/refill every 30k on the Hondas I service. However, the dealer is advocating for the correct procedure in this case.
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