I ran Red Line Racing 40wt in a Yamaha Raptor 700 that I used to race; it showed 937 ppm of moly on a UOA; I had no clutch problems.
Honda CBR250r
- Thread starter quarterliter
- Start date
- Status
I talked again with redline and they said I could mix 40wtrace with the motorcycle to get even more moly than the motorcycle stuff so like 700ppm. How were the wear metals on the raptor?
Moly is a very good friction reducer and high pressure wear reducer. Coupled with zddp it should be good.
Take a look at my post here: Link
It is a UOA of Torco T4MXR; ran that oil for several years in my Raptor and other quads that I race with nice results. Anyway, the first two UOA columns on the report show the Red Line Racing 40. Lots of moly, but not great wear results. I got much better results from the Torco, even though "on paper" it wasn't nearly as impressive an oil and it sheared badly, but the results seemed to show something intangible at play with that oil.
It is a UOA of Torco T4MXR; ran that oil for several years in my Raptor and other quads that I race with nice results. Anyway, the first two UOA columns on the report show the Red Line Racing 40. Lots of moly, but not great wear results. I got much better results from the Torco, even though "on paper" it wasn't nearly as impressive an oil and it sheared badly, but the results seemed to show something intangible at play with that oil.
Originally Posted By: sunruh
i've only tested the maxima extra and not redline.
the maxima 4 extra 15w50 that i tested is still on the top of my list as far as shear resistance goes.
it finished with a flash of 430 (also shows i had no fuel) and a susvis of 89.0
this was after a starter format enduro (the new kind not the old time keeping type).
the ONLY oil that has ever beaten that is VR1 sae50 at 465f and 90.3susvis. but its a straight weight 50. in central texas i can run that. when the day starts at 78f and goes to 105. dont know if you could run that in WI.
i've also tested the motul 5100 10w50 (#2 on my list) and it threw down 430f and 85.5, so you could look at that as well.
what does % moly end up in ppm?
as a fellow racer, can i offer this 1 suggest (ok 2).
fill it with shell rotella t 15w40 (not t6) and use that to break it in. i dont know how you plan on breaking it in, but try to accelerate up a hill (say in 3rd or 4th), u-turn at the top and coast down (in gear). do this 6 times or so. a nice run up if there is one to use. make sure all of the gauges read ok. do this about 3 times (18 runs up total). dump the oil. it wont have 1 hr on it and the rings should be seated. you know you only get 1 shot.
now fill it with your pick of either the redline or maxima or motul. run it a few hrs and dump it and refill with the same. only then can you do a uoa on it. oh and you should put an hr meter on it. it will really tell you how much motor time you are doing. seat of the pants is WAY off. of course miles work, but with a track bike hrs is more important than miles.
steve
As always a very informative post by Steve.
Thanks
i've only tested the maxima extra and not redline.
the maxima 4 extra 15w50 that i tested is still on the top of my list as far as shear resistance goes.
it finished with a flash of 430 (also shows i had no fuel) and a susvis of 89.0
this was after a starter format enduro (the new kind not the old time keeping type).
the ONLY oil that has ever beaten that is VR1 sae50 at 465f and 90.3susvis. but its a straight weight 50. in central texas i can run that. when the day starts at 78f and goes to 105. dont know if you could run that in WI.
i've also tested the motul 5100 10w50 (#2 on my list) and it threw down 430f and 85.5, so you could look at that as well.
what does % moly end up in ppm?
as a fellow racer, can i offer this 1 suggest (ok 2).
fill it with shell rotella t 15w40 (not t6) and use that to break it in. i dont know how you plan on breaking it in, but try to accelerate up a hill (say in 3rd or 4th), u-turn at the top and coast down (in gear). do this 6 times or so. a nice run up if there is one to use. make sure all of the gauges read ok. do this about 3 times (18 runs up total). dump the oil. it wont have 1 hr on it and the rings should be seated. you know you only get 1 shot.
now fill it with your pick of either the redline or maxima or motul. run it a few hrs and dump it and refill with the same. only then can you do a uoa on it. oh and you should put an hr meter on it. it will really tell you how much motor time you are doing. seat of the pants is WAY off. of course miles work, but with a track bike hrs is more important than miles.
steve
As always a very informative post by Steve.
Thanks
What do you run currently in the raptor?
And that's interesting that the wear numbers weren't spectacular with the red line. Also take into account the redline was run for 50% more time with.5% more fuel dilution.
Originally Posted By: quarterliter
What do you run currently in the raptor?
The Raptor is long gone, shed where I stored my quads burned 3 years ago.
I have found that I like Amsoil Motorcycle 10w40,however, I can't leave well enough alone and am currently running Elf ATV 4 Power 10w50 in my wet clutch race quads and Schaeffer's Racing 5w50 in my quad that doesn't require JASO-MA speced oil.
Like sunruh, I race, but quads, not bikes and have tried, and tested, a myriad of different oils, often with no rhyme or reason. I have run more than I have tested, I often buy a smallish quantity of an oil that catches my eye and run it just for fun. I currently have Ipone 0w40 Race in my KFX450R, Elf ATV 4 Power 10w50 in my KTM engined Polaris Outlaw 450MXR, Silkolene Pro 4 SX 15w50 in my Raptor 125, Amsoil Dominator 10w30 in my Raptor 90 and the Schaeffer's Racing 5w50 in my Polaris Scrambler 850HO.
I know I should find the best oil I can that would work in all of them, but I just can't seem to stop this oil obsession and settle down to just one brand. I have stayed with the Torco T4MXR and Amsoil Motorcycle 10w40 for the longest time and each oil performed well, even though the Torco sheared badly.
If you search for my posts in the Motorcycle UOA section, you will get an idea of the breadth of my addiction.
What do you run currently in the raptor?
The Raptor is long gone, shed where I stored my quads burned 3 years ago.
I have found that I like Amsoil Motorcycle 10w40,however, I can't leave well enough alone and am currently running Elf ATV 4 Power 10w50 in my wet clutch race quads and Schaeffer's Racing 5w50 in my quad that doesn't require JASO-MA speced oil.
Like sunruh, I race, but quads, not bikes and have tried, and tested, a myriad of different oils, often with no rhyme or reason. I have run more than I have tested, I often buy a smallish quantity of an oil that catches my eye and run it just for fun. I currently have Ipone 0w40 Race in my KFX450R, Elf ATV 4 Power 10w50 in my KTM engined Polaris Outlaw 450MXR, Silkolene Pro 4 SX 15w50 in my Raptor 125, Amsoil Dominator 10w30 in my Raptor 90 and the Schaeffer's Racing 5w50 in my Polaris Scrambler 850HO.
I know I should find the best oil I can that would work in all of them, but I just can't seem to stop this oil obsession and settle down to just one brand. I have stayed with the Torco T4MXR and Amsoil Motorcycle 10w40 for the longest time and each oil performed well, even though the Torco sheared badly.
If you search for my posts in the Motorcycle UOA section, you will get an idea of the breadth of my addiction.
I'm sorry to hear about that. For some reason I'm not an amsoil fan. Their tests that show their oils always coming out on top makes me not trust them. God I thought I had this figured out....50% 10w40 redline motorcycle with 50% race 40wt (15w40). Are ELF oils esters?
Originally Posted By: quarterliter
Are ELF oils esters?
No, I don't think any of the ELF moto oils have a significant quantity of ester in them. The ATV 4 Power is listed as a PAO oil along with some of their others. I think most ELF moto oils are group III oils. I still have some ELF Moto 4 Pro Tech 5w40 that I will use in something, probably my beater old Suzuki LT230S. I know it is primarily a group III oil and shears a bit, but does have a nice dose of ZDDP. Can't really say anything bad about ELF moto oils, except their Sport 4 Campione 10w60. Got a wild hair and ran it in my Raptor one summer, convinced that it's thickness would somehow help in the Louisiana heat. I really have no idea, I ran it for one race and could feel the parasitic loss so badly that I never ran it again in the Raptor.
I tried Maxima 530MX in the Raptor and didn't like the extra mechanical sounds from the engine, almost like it wasn't providing the film strength necessary. I have since run it in the KTM and the Raptor 90, both with fine results, even though the KTM specs a 50wt oil.
Are ELF oils esters?
No, I don't think any of the ELF moto oils have a significant quantity of ester in them. The ATV 4 Power is listed as a PAO oil along with some of their others. I think most ELF moto oils are group III oils. I still have some ELF Moto 4 Pro Tech 5w40 that I will use in something, probably my beater old Suzuki LT230S. I know it is primarily a group III oil and shears a bit, but does have a nice dose of ZDDP. Can't really say anything bad about ELF moto oils, except their Sport 4 Campione 10w60. Got a wild hair and ran it in my Raptor one summer, convinced that it's thickness would somehow help in the Louisiana heat. I really have no idea, I ran it for one race and could feel the parasitic loss so badly that I never ran it again in the Raptor.
I tried Maxima 530MX in the Raptor and didn't like the extra mechanical sounds from the engine, almost like it wasn't providing the film strength necessary. I have since run it in the KTM and the Raptor 90, both with fine results, even though the KTM specs a 50wt oil.
Originally Posted By: quarterliter
Last week I found a cbr250rr for sale that I couldn't pass up.
I'd love to see some pics of your bike, and the engine internals. I had no idea they were available here.
I recall seeing similar bikes in Japan, and always wanted the Suzuki 250 4cyl.
Last week I found a cbr250rr for sale that I couldn't pass up.
I'd love to see some pics of your bike, and the engine internals. I had no idea they were available here.
I recall seeing similar bikes in Japan, and always wanted the Suzuki 250 4cyl.
Originally Posted By: ccdhowell
I tried Maxima 530MX in the Raptor and didn't like the extra mechanical sounds from the engine, almost like it wasn't providing the film strength necessary.
while i have not tested the 530mx there certainly have been a few oils that i have tested that have caught my ear. just like this one did with yours.
unlike you, i have run the same motor for the last 13 years. so i know exactly what it should sound like. and it is very noticeable. on my bike the cam chain and bucket noise seems to greatly vary with the different oils
steve
I tried Maxima 530MX in the Raptor and didn't like the extra mechanical sounds from the engine, almost like it wasn't providing the film strength necessary.
while i have not tested the 530mx there certainly have been a few oils that i have tested that have caught my ear. just like this one did with yours.
unlike you, i have run the same motor for the last 13 years. so i know exactly what it should sound like. and it is very noticeable. on my bike the cam chain and bucket noise seems to greatly vary with the different oils
steve
I myself was never a Honda guy I always preferred Kawasaki and Yamaha but the in the US it is extremely difficult to find these.
some of these "exotic" bikes were never directly imported to the usa (canada and down). or in very very limited numbers.
i always wanted a yamaha rz500r (the square 4 2smoke) or rg500gamma from suzuki. not allowed here. i got to sit on the gamma when i was in new zealand, but they would not ship it to the usa.
when i was in italy last year i got to see and sit on some honda's that dont come here either.
not much we can do about all that.
ql, your oil blend from redline sound nice, you gonna use that or what?
steve
i always wanted a yamaha rz500r (the square 4 2smoke) or rg500gamma from suzuki. not allowed here. i got to sit on the gamma when i was in new zealand, but they would not ship it to the usa.
when i was in italy last year i got to see and sit on some honda's that dont come here either.
not much we can do about all that.
ql, your oil blend from redline sound nice, you gonna use that or what?
steve
Canada got lucky in that we got a fair number of the "exotics" like the RZ500, RG500, TZR250, TDR250, DT200R, NS400R, GSX-R 750 LImited (dry clutch), event the MT-01... we never got the 4 cyl, 4 stroke 250s though, and only the FZR of the screamer 400s.....
We don't really get the goodies anymore, now that we've become Cruiserland........
We don't really get the goodies anymore, now that we've become Cruiserland........
I miss my RZ500.. Some ebay exec owns in now...
A tzr250 is basically my dream bike. And yea after my break in with the SRT 15-40 I'll go the red line mix. Has anyone had good luck with wix oil filters? Recommendation? And I'm also going to get a magnetic drain plug or make one (I work as a machinist)
The 4 cylinder 250s were a result of a tiered licence system. When u could only get a certain cc bike when you started out
yes, they were "limited" by a gent's agreement to "only" 45 hp, while the 400s (another product of graduated licensing) were limted to 59 hp.... made for some interesting bikes though
Any oil filter recommendations? It takes a cartridge style filter. Wix?
- Status