High Mileage Oils vs Euro Oils for seal conditioning?

[Glenda W.]

That ^ is precisely what I was wondering about when I posted the OP for this thread.

Also, the higher viscosity of Euro oils (per grade) would reduce leaking and burning.

Perhaps Euro oils are akin to High Mileage oils on steroids?

I use ESP 0W-30 in all my vehicles. It contains esters. Someone like @Tom NJ, who is an ester expert could answer questions about esters being used as seal conditioners. Possibly comparing HM oils to high ester oils.

 

[Carlostrece]

Someone like @Tom NJ, who is an ester expert, could answer questions about esters being used as seal conditioners. Possibly comparing HM oils to high ester oils.

Hopefully @Tom NJ will talk about it in this thread. I'd like to hear his thoughts about it.

 

[tired]

I use ESP 0W-30 in all my vehicles. It contains esters. Someone like @Tom NJ, who is an ester expert could answer questions about esters being used as seal conditioners. Possibly comparing HM oils to high ester oils.

No Amsoil SS in the Jeep?

 

[Tom NJ]

Hopefully @Tom NJ will talk about it in this thread. I'd like to hear his thoughts about it.

Both US and European oil specifications have elastomer compatibility requirements which include swelling ranges for a variety of standard elastomers. Since the elastomer standards are not the same one cannot compare the specifications ranges. Where a formulator aims within the specification ranges and how they get there is up to them, but so long as the oil passes it should be compatible with the seals, meaning the seals should not swell or shrink so much to cause a problem.

Formulators balance seal effects through both base oil and additive selection. For example, PAOs have a tendency to shrink and harden seals while esters cause seal swelling and softening, so balancing these base oils when used allows control of swelling against specifications. Even without PAO, esters are commonly used as seal swelling additives where needed. There are many different types of esters and the amount of swelling they contribute varies considerably based on their polarity and molecular size, so just looking at the amount of ester (e.g. oxidation number) without knowing the complete formulation chemistry is not conclusive.

As seals age they may harden somewhat and additional seal swelling agents may be useful. While HM oils claim to address this, the term “High Mileage” is not defined so again no comparisons can be made.

If you are experiencing leakage past seals you can try a higher viscosity oil or one that specifically claims to condition seals, presuming you trust the manufacturer’s claim. If you are prone to experimentation you can also add a bit of ester. Lower viscosity 100% ester (POE) refrigeration oils such as an ISO 22 or 32 are available and these are good swellers, but I would not exceed maybe three percent (guess).

 

[Glenda W.]

No Amsoil SS in the Jeep?

I have a plan in action. Recently changed my differential fluids to Amsoil Severe Gear, next spring my transmission and transfer case will be getting Amsoil. This vehicle will be getting yearly oil changes as it’s only driven for fun and off roading. I dumped the dealer oil right away for ESP. Next change will most likely be Amsoil SS. But I must say the engine is currently happy and these aren’t hard on oil. Although oil temps get high when I’m having fun.

 

[Carlostrece]

I have a plan in action. Recently changed my differential fluids to Amsoil Severe Gear, next spring my transmission and transfer case will be getting Amsoil. This vehicle will be getting yearly oil changes as it’s only driven for fun and off roading. I dumped the dealer oil right away for ESP. Next change will most likely be Amsoil SS. But I must say the engine is currently happy and these aren’t hard on oil. Although oil temps get high when I’m having fun.

What temp does your Jeep run when having fun? What type of Jeep? I owned 3 Jeeps with 4L engine. That engines runs best with water temp guage at at 205F-215F. It's acceptable up to 230F. It's not overheating until it goes above 230F.

I replaced the stock 4L 195F thermostat with a stock 4.2L (258 cu in) 205F thermostat and got better gas mileage and a much better heater in winter, and the engine and oil stayed cleaner. The first of those Jeeps lasted 410K miles with no rebuild. My other two Jeeps are still going strong.

A new 205F thermostat (stock for 258 engine) is an excellent upgrade for a Jeep 4L. Also, it's not running hot until temp guage is above 215F, and not overheating until it goes above 230F. Mine rarely went above 215F.

 

[Glenda W.]

What temp does your Jeep run when having fun? What type of Jeep? I owned 3 Jeeps with 4L engine. That engines runs best with water temp guage at at 205F-215F. It's acceptable up to 230F. It's not overheating until it goes above 230F.

I replaced the stock 4L 195F thermostat with a stock 4.2L (258 cu in) 205F thermostat and got better gas mileage and a much better heater in winter, and the engine and oil stayed cleaner. The first of those Jeeps lasted 410K miles with no rebuild. My other two Jeeps are still going strong.

A new 205F thermostat (stock for 258 engine) is an excellent upgrade for a Jeep 4L. Also, it's not running hot until temp guage is above 215F, and not overheating until it goes above 230F. Mine rarely went above 215F.

2021 Jeep Wrangler 3.6 V6. My oil temps are approaching 250f off roading. Normal driving oil temps rarely go over 212f.

 

[facility1]

If you have seal problems the Marvel Mystery oil Synthetic may help due to its composition, it's about the only oil additive that is worth anything and effective on the market and works safely for its claims

 

[Carlostrece]

2021 Jeep Wrangler 3.6 V6. My oil temps are approaching 250f off roading. Normal driving oil temps rarely go over 212f.View attachment 300813

250F?

Sounds like you need a cooling system upgrade for offroad. I don't know what the options are for Jeeps newer than 2007. Larger radiator? Second cooling fan? Perhaps add a transmission cooler to take some heat load off automatic transmission, which would also remove some heat load from radiator.

Those are just some ideas. My Jeep knowledge is strong for Jeeps with 4L engine, but not for later Jeeps.

For examples...
My 96 Cherokee XJ ran 230F when offroading on hot summer days with a 1 row stock radiator. In spite of this, the engine lasted 410K miles.
My 99 XJ ran 215F when offroading on hot summer days with a 2 row upgrade tow package radiator.
After also adding a transmission cooler to 99 XJ, it ran 205-210F when offroading on hot summer days.

 

[Glenda W.]

250F?

Sounds like you need a cooling system upgrade for offroad. I don't know what the options are for Jeeps newer than 2007. Larger radiator? Second cooling fan? Perhaps add a transmission cooler to take some heat load off automatic transmission, which would also remove some heat load from radiator.

Those are just some ideas. My Jeep knowledge is strong for Jeeps with 4L engine, but not for later Jeeps.

For examples...
My 96 Cherokee XJ ran 230F when offroading on hot summer days with a 1 row stock radiator. In spite of this, the engine lasted 410K miles.
My 99 XJ ran 215F when offroading on hot summer days with a 2 row upgrade tow package radiator.
After also adding a transmission cooler to 99 XJ, it ran 205-210F when offroading on hot summer days.

Keep in mind I’m talking oil temp. Coolant temps are fine.