???
The GM LS series engine is on par with any Ford mod motor.
The GM LS series engine is on par with any Ford mod motor.
High iron content after new heads LS7
- Thread starter erick_e
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: Zaedock
???
The GM LS series engine is on par with any Ford mod motor.
I'd have to argue that one from personal experience! Sorry, just ain't seen it and I've been around both for many many years!
???
The GM LS series engine is on par with any Ford mod motor.
I'd have to argue that one from personal experience! Sorry, just ain't seen it and I've been around both for many many years!
Personal experience doesn't trump the fact that there are millions of each going the distance.
GM didn't have heads with 3 spark plug threads (2V engines).
GM didn't have spark plugs break off inside the engine(3V engines).
GM didn't VCT function/noise issues.
The fact is, both GM and Ford took a different approach and both designs have proven to be very reliable with a few issues with both along the way.
GM didn't have heads with 3 spark plug threads (2V engines).
GM didn't have spark plugs break off inside the engine(3V engines).
GM didn't VCT function/noise issues.
The fact is, both GM and Ford took a different approach and both designs have proven to be very reliable with a few issues with both along the way.
I just love seeing the Gov't motors guys get their undies in a bunch!
Sorry guys, I'll back down now...
Sorry guys, I'll back down now...
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Wow... I'd be ringing some heads at GM for what you paid for that car/engine!!
Just one more reason I hate the LS motors... and GM in general anymore... so many problems with them over the years. Sure they're fast WHEN they run but I know of many friends over the years with 40-50k miles replacing engines, heads etc.
One thing I'll give my fords, might be underpowered but a 4.6/5.4 mod motor will run forever and take anything you can throw at it! Add in the ol 302/5.0 and even the 300 straight 6 motors. Bulletproof! Sorry... did I mention I was a blue oval guy?
All engines have problems no matter the brand. Yes the modular is a great engine, but so are GM LS engines. Once you start modifying things reliability takes a plunge no matter the brand.
Wow... I'd be ringing some heads at GM for what you paid for that car/engine!!
Just one more reason I hate the LS motors... and GM in general anymore... so many problems with them over the years. Sure they're fast WHEN they run but I know of many friends over the years with 40-50k miles replacing engines, heads etc.
One thing I'll give my fords, might be underpowered but a 4.6/5.4 mod motor will run forever and take anything you can throw at it! Add in the ol 302/5.0 and even the 300 straight 6 motors. Bulletproof! Sorry... did I mention I was a blue oval guy?
All engines have problems no matter the brand. Yes the modular is a great engine, but so are GM LS engines. Once you start modifying things reliability takes a plunge no matter the brand.
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
I just love seeing the Gov't motors guys get their undies in a bunch!
Sorry guys, I'll back down now...
Undies in a bunch? Read my sig. I drive a Ford every day.
Good thing I didn't mention how tuff the Japanese 4 cylinders can be. Although you have three, so I guess you know.
I just love seeing the Gov't motors guys get their undies in a bunch!
Sorry guys, I'll back down now...
Undies in a bunch? Read my sig. I drive a Ford every day.
Good thing I didn't mention how tuff the Japanese 4 cylinders can be. Although you have three, so I guess you know.
Let's get the conversation back on topic.
As a Ford guy, I would have no problem whatsoever driving a C6 Z06. I have a lot of respect for a car that was built to kill its owner.
Wondering if the slight lean at idle has something to do with Eledbrock's tune?
Wondering if the slight lean at idle has something to do with Eledbrock's tune?
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
As a Ford guy, I would have no problem whatsoever driving a C6 Z06. I have a lot of respect for a car that was built to kill its owner.
Wondering if the slight lean at idle has something to do with Eledbrock's tune?
I must agree bc.. I love the C6 and C7 vettes and respect them very much! If I were the OP I'd suggest taking it somewhere for a "real" tune and not rely on the Edelbrock's "close but safe" type generic tune. Have it put on a load bearing dyno and allow a GM pro to fully tune it since we all know no two cars are alike.
As a Ford guy, I would have no problem whatsoever driving a C6 Z06. I have a lot of respect for a car that was built to kill its owner.
Wondering if the slight lean at idle has something to do with Eledbrock's tune?
I must agree bc.. I love the C6 and C7 vettes and respect them very much! If I were the OP I'd suggest taking it somewhere for a "real" tune and not rely on the Edelbrock's "close but safe" type generic tune. Have it put on a load bearing dyno and allow a GM pro to fully tune it since we all know no two cars are alike.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Vacuum leak?
Exhaust system leak?
That's what I would have thought, but I have tested it with a Redline smoke tester, and cannot find any leaks.
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
As a Ford guy, I would have no problem whatsoever driving a C6 Z06. I have a lot of respect for a car that was built to kill its owner.
Wondering if the slight lean at idle has something to do with Eledbrock's tune?
Edelbrock has sent me a custom tune with an additional 10% fuel in certain fuel cells, and it helped but didn't fix my problem. It just sets the CEL less frequently.
Vacuum leak?
Exhaust system leak?
That's what I would have thought, but I have tested it with a Redline smoke tester, and cannot find any leaks.
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
As a Ford guy, I would have no problem whatsoever driving a C6 Z06. I have a lot of respect for a car that was built to kill its owner.
Wondering if the slight lean at idle has something to do with Eledbrock's tune?
Edelbrock has sent me a custom tune with an additional 10% fuel in certain fuel cells, and it helped but didn't fix my problem. It just sets the CEL less frequently.
East Coast Supercharging (boosted LSx EXPERTS) could fix/tune this RIGHT QUICK, but you are very far away from them.
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
East Coast Supercharging (boosted LSx EXPERTS) could fix/tune this RIGHT QUICK, but you are very far away from them.
I'm hesitant to think the problem is entirely in the tune. The car ran fine for two to three months before it started to set a lean code.
That's one of the reasons I'm curious to the high iron content in the sample.
East Coast Supercharging (boosted LSx EXPERTS) could fix/tune this RIGHT QUICK, but you are very far away from them.
I'm hesitant to think the problem is entirely in the tune. The car ran fine for two to three months before it started to set a lean code.
That's one of the reasons I'm curious to the high iron content in the sample.
Are these 1133/1153 DTCs, or something else?
Do you still have stock catcons/rear O2s?
Sometimes some tunes (whether rich or lean) can kill the front O2 sensors, possibly causing a lean code.
DEFINITELY no exhaust/intake leaks, correct??
Do you still have stock catcons/rear O2s?
Sometimes some tunes (whether rich or lean) can kill the front O2 sensors, possibly causing a lean code.
DEFINITELY no exhaust/intake leaks, correct??
As a fellow Z06 owner and a tech. writer who covers Corvette, I'm familiar with the LS7 engine and the premature valve guide wear problem.
Looking at your report from Blackstone, they tell you that the high iron number is most likely because of the cylinder head change and the expected short term high wear rate as the new guides break in.
I'd go 5000 miles and sample the oil, again.
As for the lean at idle issue, it's very unlikely that's connected with the high iron numbers.
I know you said you're looking at the Edelbrock E-Force blower but it the engine modified now? If so, can you list the mods?
Also, when the MIL comes on, what code(s) are set?
Looking at your report from Blackstone, they tell you that the high iron number is most likely because of the cylinder head change and the expected short term high wear rate as the new guides break in.
I'd go 5000 miles and sample the oil, again.
As for the lean at idle issue, it's very unlikely that's connected with the high iron numbers.
I know you said you're looking at the Edelbrock E-Force blower but it the engine modified now? If so, can you list the mods?
Also, when the MIL comes on, what code(s) are set?
Originally Posted By: Hib_Halverson
As a fellow Z06 owner and a tech. writer who covers Corvette, I'm familiar with the LS7 engine and the premature valve guide wear problem.
Looking at your report from Blackstone, they tell you that the high iron number is most likely because of the cylinder head change and the expected short term high wear rate as the new guides break in.
I'd go 5000 miles and sample the oil, again.
As for the lean at idle issue, it's very unlikely that's connected with the high iron numbers.
I know you said you're looking at the Edelbrock E-Force blower but it the engine modified now? If so, can you list the mods?
Also, when the MIL comes on, what code(s) are set?
Hib,
Thanks. I'm very familiar with your articles, and your posts on Corvette Forum. I post there very frequently, and have tried to get help there and from the Edelbrock forum for my lean code issue.
I had planned on submitting another sample in 4500-5000 miles to see if the wear is contained. As you can see the previous oil samples were normal, and I changed the oil about 150 miles after the new heads were installed because the dealer screwed up the oil change after replacing the heads. They didn't fill the dry sump correctly.
The engine is completely stock. I have added a DeWitts radiator, and HO alternator thinking the codes were being set by low voltage at idle. That is when the code always sets. I can watch the STFTs climb when sitting at a stop light or at an extended idle. But it doesn't always do it. The dealer lapped the intake valves in the new heads which may have removed their protective coating, and I hoping that may not be causing my problem.
What bother's me is that it didn't set the P0420 and P0420 codes for the first three months after the install. I've been chasing it for almost a year now. A new tune from Edelbrock seemed to help a little, but it didn't fix it completely.
As a fellow Z06 owner and a tech. writer who covers Corvette, I'm familiar with the LS7 engine and the premature valve guide wear problem.
Looking at your report from Blackstone, they tell you that the high iron number is most likely because of the cylinder head change and the expected short term high wear rate as the new guides break in.
I'd go 5000 miles and sample the oil, again.
As for the lean at idle issue, it's very unlikely that's connected with the high iron numbers.
I know you said you're looking at the Edelbrock E-Force blower but it the engine modified now? If so, can you list the mods?
Also, when the MIL comes on, what code(s) are set?
Hib,
Thanks. I'm very familiar with your articles, and your posts on Corvette Forum. I post there very frequently, and have tried to get help there and from the Edelbrock forum for my lean code issue.
I had planned on submitting another sample in 4500-5000 miles to see if the wear is contained. As you can see the previous oil samples were normal, and I changed the oil about 150 miles after the new heads were installed because the dealer screwed up the oil change after replacing the heads. They didn't fill the dry sump correctly.
The engine is completely stock. I have added a DeWitts radiator, and HO alternator thinking the codes were being set by low voltage at idle. That is when the code always sets. I can watch the STFTs climb when sitting at a stop light or at an extended idle. But it doesn't always do it. The dealer lapped the intake valves in the new heads which may have removed their protective coating, and I hoping that may not be causing my problem.
What bother's me is that it didn't set the P0420 and P0420 codes for the first three months after the install. I've been chasing it for almost a year now. A new tune from Edelbrock seemed to help a little, but it didn't fix it completely.
Can you tell me the exact chronology of the pre/post head swap iron content?
I would bet that if the pre swap iron was low, and it only showed up after the swap, the iron probably came from grit from deck surface prep getting into the cylinders and causing wear.
Another possibility- Does the supercharger share lube with the engine, or have steel/iron parts in the rotors that can shed for a while? Maybe worth a call to Edelbrock.
I would bet that if the pre swap iron was low, and it only showed up after the swap, the iron probably came from grit from deck surface prep getting into the cylinders and causing wear.
Another possibility- Does the supercharger share lube with the engine, or have steel/iron parts in the rotors that can shed for a while? Maybe worth a call to Edelbrock.
I'm surprised the dealer "lapped" the valves because may damage the coating on the Titanium intake valves. The service manual specifically states, in two places, that intake valves are not to be resurfaced. When the CrN coating is damaged, valve durability is compromised. You may want to point that out to the dealer and see what they say.
The exhaust valve is not coated so lapping would not affect it.
When you say the MIL comes on, specifically what codes are set? You mentioned in the OP that the engine was lean at idle and later you mentioned P0420, but that's a cat efficieny code not a lean exhaust code.
Lastly, you said the engine was stock. I thought the Edelbrock E-Force Supercharger kit for LS7 inluded forged pistons.
The exhaust valve is not coated so lapping would not affect it.
When you say the MIL comes on, specifically what codes are set? You mentioned in the OP that the engine was lean at idle and later you mentioned P0420, but that's a cat efficieny code not a lean exhaust code.
Lastly, you said the engine was stock. I thought the Edelbrock E-Force Supercharger kit for LS7 inluded forged pistons.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Hib_Halverson
I'm surprised the dealer "lapped" the valves because may damage the coating on the Titanium intake valves. The service manual specifically states, in two places, that intake valves are not to be resurfaced. When the CrN coating is damaged, valve durability is compromised. You may want to point that out to the dealer and see what they say.
The exhaust valve is not coated so lapping would not affect it.
When you say the MIL comes on, specifically what codes are set? You mentioned in the OP that the engine was lean at idle and later you mentioned P0420, but that's a cat efficieny code not a lean exhaust code.
Lastly, you said the engine was stock. I thought the Edelbrock E-Force Supercharger kit for LS7 inluded forged pistons.
Hib,
I am traveling, and posted the incorrect CEL codes. It starts by triggering the Service Traction Control and a C0561 code, then the CEL sets P0174 and P0171 when it sees the same lean condition a second time.
I thought about pointing out the valve lapping to the dealer, but I didn't notice it until after the supercharger was installed, and the lean codes started. I figure they would just tell me to get lost since I had the supercharger installed.
The E-Force LS7 kit does not come with any internal engine components.
I'm surprised the dealer "lapped" the valves because may damage the coating on the Titanium intake valves. The service manual specifically states, in two places, that intake valves are not to be resurfaced. When the CrN coating is damaged, valve durability is compromised. You may want to point that out to the dealer and see what they say.
The exhaust valve is not coated so lapping would not affect it.
When you say the MIL comes on, specifically what codes are set? You mentioned in the OP that the engine was lean at idle and later you mentioned P0420, but that's a cat efficieny code not a lean exhaust code.
Lastly, you said the engine was stock. I thought the Edelbrock E-Force Supercharger kit for LS7 inluded forged pistons.
Hib,
I am traveling, and posted the incorrect CEL codes. It starts by triggering the Service Traction Control and a C0561 code, then the CEL sets P0174 and P0171 when it sees the same lean condition a second time.
I thought about pointing out the valve lapping to the dealer, but I didn't notice it until after the supercharger was installed, and the lean codes started. I figure they would just tell me to get lost since I had the supercharger installed.
The E-Force LS7 kit does not come with any internal engine components.
Admittedly, we're getting off-topic here a bit and I apoligize to others here.
C0561 is not a fault in the EBTCM but is a code which sets when other modules (ECM, BCM, IPC or TCM) have a problem communicating with the EBTCM. Diagnosing this may be difficult if there are no codes set in other modules relating to serial data. That said, this code needs to be solved because when it's set, traction control and stability enhancement are disabled.
P0171 and 0174 are, of course, the two codes for lean exhaust. Considering the supercharger installation, assuming there are no problems with vacuum leaks and without any other information, I'd say this is a part throttle tuning issue.
I didn't realize Edelbrock was not selling pistons with the LS7 blower kit. I had heard, back before the E-Force for LS7 was released that Edelbrock was going to do that for reliability/durability reasons.
C0561 is not a fault in the EBTCM but is a code which sets when other modules (ECM, BCM, IPC or TCM) have a problem communicating with the EBTCM. Diagnosing this may be difficult if there are no codes set in other modules relating to serial data. That said, this code needs to be solved because when it's set, traction control and stability enhancement are disabled.
P0171 and 0174 are, of course, the two codes for lean exhaust. Considering the supercharger installation, assuming there are no problems with vacuum leaks and without any other information, I'd say this is a part throttle tuning issue.
I didn't realize Edelbrock was not selling pistons with the LS7 blower kit. I had heard, back before the E-Force for LS7 was released that Edelbrock was going to do that for reliability/durability reasons.
Last edited:
- Status
