I am looking at replacing the oil in my engine (currently Mobil 1 10w30) with either some more M1 in a 5w-50 (I live in Australia and it is summer now) or some equivalent weight Castrol Edge which is much cheaper. ALSO if I want my engine to rev easier/faster is it better to go with say a 10-30 or a 10-40?
Help me make an informed choice: M1 or CastrolEdge
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Hello AlexT, I am in Australia too. I use Mobil 1 10w30 in my Toyota Kluger awd 3.3 V6 and have another 15 litres in store which I bought some time ago on sale. Once this store has been used up I am going to use Castrol Edge 5w30 as I am doing in my Corolla, it was on special at Supercheap for aud$39 as against aud$82 for Mobil. In my opinion if you follow a sensible oci the Castrol will serve you well. As well I think Mobil 1 5W-50 is too thick, a xW-30 is adequate in most cases, although it is a lot cheaper than their 10w30.
Roger
Roger
Alext
Extract from a post by Doug Hillary (also Oz) Dec 2002.
I do advocate the correct oil as specified by the engine's maker.
Bearing wear on Porsche engines will occur with a HTHS viscosity below 3.5cSt and bearing erosion can occur with high viscosity oils - a HTHS viscosity above 4cSt and below about 5cSt is best if fuel dilution is not an issue. A HTHS viscosity above 4.5cSt will start to consume power
The oil "wedge" effect at any journal bearing interface is a very complex fluid dynamics issue but it is known that pressure in this area FAR exceeds any produced by the oil pump. This is why flow is so critical. These types of bearings run off centre causing this effect and much research is still continuing. In the meantime HTHS viscosity covered by the ACEA A3/B3 and Porsche Approved standards are paramount. The HTHS viscosity is measured at 150C via a cyclic test protocol
Some "thick" oils actually shear temporarily (see below) and cause all sorts of problems. The pressure at the bearing interface is quite enormous - hundreds of PSI - and linear flow of the lubricant to this point is critical
Journal bearing design is still based on principles established in the early 1900's. The current research I mentioned earlier is being driven by the need for fuel efficiency and sadly less by durability.
Hydrodynamic principles which are active as the shaft rotates create an oil wedge that supports the shaft and relocates it within the bearing's tolearnces. A lot depends on bearing and shaft design factors.
Bearing wear (abrasive) is primariliy caused by a factor of particle size versus HTHS viscosity (oil film)
The temporary polymer shear phenomenon caused by the plastic polymers "uncoiling" with heat and a small amount of polymer can have a hugh effect on viscosity. When uncoiling and spreading occurs they (the polymers) entangle obviously trapping and controlling many oil molecules. This reduces flow - old style plastic ploymers are more common in mineral oils! This is why too thick is not good!!!
As oil is forced between a bearing and journal many polymers tend to align themselves (rather like a nest of spoons). When this happens viscosity drops and this is called "temporary shear". It is the basis for the high temperature shear test protocol (HTHS vis @ 150C). Again a linear non turbulent flow is required to carry away heat!
The research that is now being undertaken using radioactive (RATT) devices measures wear and failure potential etc. in real time and under conditions that can be accurately replicated. This will all have a dramatic effect on future bearing design and the metallurgy used
Some of the other issues you mention (oil level etc) are of course very relevent. A synthetic oil with the correct specification (A3/B3) and operating viscosity for our cars will operate continuously at up to 120C+ (250F) without difficulty
Journal bearings are about to be re-invented and it is about time too!
Extract from a post by Doug Hillary (also Oz) Dec 2002.
I do advocate the correct oil as specified by the engine's maker.
Bearing wear on Porsche engines will occur with a HTHS viscosity below 3.5cSt and bearing erosion can occur with high viscosity oils - a HTHS viscosity above 4cSt and below about 5cSt is best if fuel dilution is not an issue. A HTHS viscosity above 4.5cSt will start to consume power
The oil "wedge" effect at any journal bearing interface is a very complex fluid dynamics issue but it is known that pressure in this area FAR exceeds any produced by the oil pump. This is why flow is so critical. These types of bearings run off centre causing this effect and much research is still continuing. In the meantime HTHS viscosity covered by the ACEA A3/B3 and Porsche Approved standards are paramount. The HTHS viscosity is measured at 150C via a cyclic test protocol
Some "thick" oils actually shear temporarily (see below) and cause all sorts of problems. The pressure at the bearing interface is quite enormous - hundreds of PSI - and linear flow of the lubricant to this point is critical
Journal bearing design is still based on principles established in the early 1900's. The current research I mentioned earlier is being driven by the need for fuel efficiency and sadly less by durability.
Hydrodynamic principles which are active as the shaft rotates create an oil wedge that supports the shaft and relocates it within the bearing's tolearnces. A lot depends on bearing and shaft design factors.
Bearing wear (abrasive) is primariliy caused by a factor of particle size versus HTHS viscosity (oil film)
The temporary polymer shear phenomenon caused by the plastic polymers "uncoiling" with heat and a small amount of polymer can have a hugh effect on viscosity. When uncoiling and spreading occurs they (the polymers) entangle obviously trapping and controlling many oil molecules. This reduces flow - old style plastic ploymers are more common in mineral oils! This is why too thick is not good!!!
As oil is forced between a bearing and journal many polymers tend to align themselves (rather like a nest of spoons). When this happens viscosity drops and this is called "temporary shear". It is the basis for the high temperature shear test protocol (HTHS vis @ 150C). Again a linear non turbulent flow is required to carry away heat!
The research that is now being undertaken using radioactive (RATT) devices measures wear and failure potential etc. in real time and under conditions that can be accurately replicated. This will all have a dramatic effect on future bearing design and the metallurgy used
Some of the other issues you mention (oil level etc) are of course very relevent. A synthetic oil with the correct specification (A3/B3) and operating viscosity for our cars will operate continuously at up to 120C+ (250F) without difficulty
Journal bearings are about to be re-invented and it is about time too!
IF you go by the HTHS data then Mobil 1 10w30 is way below the required HTHS being a 3.14! But it is apparently less viscous than any other oil I have seen @ 100oC with a value of 10.0 cSt. See: http://www.mobil.com/Australia-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_10W-30.asp
Can I say that in theory this oil will make my engine rev a bit more freely? OR is there a better choice.
Can I say that in theory this oil will make my engine rev a bit more freely? OR is there a better choice.
Welcome to BITOG. Another SA member at last!
I'd go the Castrol EDGE 5W30. Its so much cheaper than the Mobil 1, especially when you go to SuperS**tAuto during their specials. Also the 5W30 EDGE is a little thicker 12cSt oil than the M1 10w30 so it may be of benefit to you.
I'd go the Castrol EDGE 5W30. Its so much cheaper than the Mobil 1, especially when you go to SuperS**tAuto during their specials. Also the 5W30 EDGE is a little thicker 12cSt oil than the M1 10w30 so it may be of benefit to you.
What kind of vehicle are we talking about here?
M1 sux, it's probably been cut back to Group II, and they're wiggling out by saying it performs for 3K.
Go with the Castrol..
Go with the Castrol..
Mobil appears (based on only one test a hasten to add) to have substituted Group III Basestock in some Mobil 1 grades after claiming for years they did not consider it true synthetic.
If you need a higher HT/HS I would go with the Castrol Edge if its a good bit cheaper.
For most European Cars in the USA we would use 0W-40 as the Mobil 1 of choice. We dont get the Rover VVC engine here.
If you need a higher HT/HS I would go with the Castrol Edge if its a good bit cheaper.
For most European Cars in the USA we would use 0W-40 as the Mobil 1 of choice. We dont get the Rover VVC engine here.
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M1 sux, it's probably been cut back to Group II, and they're wiggling out by saying it performs for 3K.
Go with the Castrol..
Come on, that's a fine joke for someone that knows the M1 history of late, but not for a new person seeking help...
I've been using M1 for a long time - over 10 years, and it's a great oil.
If you want to learn more about the fuss, there's tons of threads here on that.
That said, you MIGHT be able to get a better oil for less, or a better oil for the same, hence the GC crowd.
I'm trying it my next change.
Bottom line is you can't go wrong with any of the top oils if you change them when you should and use a good filter.
Scott
"I've been using M1 for a long time - over 10 years, and it's a great oil.
If you want to learn more about the fuss, there's tons of threads here on that."
Well, things can change a lot in 10 years. If you read the threads on the test that everyone's been talking about on this site, a test by a well respected person working for a top notch testing company, a test that Mobil and its flunkies have in no way adequately addressed, you might change your mind about Mobil's oil.
If you want to learn more about the fuss, there's tons of threads here on that."
Well, things can change a lot in 10 years. If you read the threads on the test that everyone's been talking about on this site, a test by a well respected person working for a top notch testing company, a test that Mobil and its flunkies have in no way adequately addressed, you might change your mind about Mobil's oil.
Well, then there is the fact that they've been asked, but of course, it's proprietary. Now, if they open up, tell the truth, they could buy themselves a little credibility. Until then, why should they sell the product as one thing when it's really another. If I were Castrol, I'd be looking for a little truth-in-advertising from EOM.
Fact is, they refuse. Leads a discriminating buyer to one conclusion. GroupIII. Not a bad thing, but not what THEY have led us to believe. Simple issue to clarify.
Fact is, they refuse. Leads a discriminating buyer to one conclusion. GroupIII. Not a bad thing, but not what THEY have led us to believe. Simple issue to clarify.
I have, and I'm not. The UOA's didn't change because/if EM lied - they jsut got all you p*ssed off, that's all.
I haven't seen any evidence that M1 sucks.
Sow me that, I'll change my mind.
As for big corporations lying, I guess I'm not only not caring, I expect it.
No time for that B-S, gotta live.
Isure would like to se a pic. of a Toyota Kluger. Never heard of one here in the states.
I have only seen tests conducted by One Lab/Individual. No independent confirmation. I am withholding judgement until I see confirmation.
BTW I have not used Mobil 1 for years. Never liked the high iron numbers.
Quote:
Isure would like to se a pic. of a Toyota Kluger. Never heard of one here in the states.
Kluger = Toyota Highlander (Related to the Lexus RX330)
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